Has the release of the JP-2C affected original mkiic+ value?

[xdg999]

The only question I want answered is why Mesa won't do a true c+ reissue. If Mesa can build the JP-2c for $2500, a "basic" c+ would have to cost less to build.

 

[Markedman]

Why not a true C+? The components would cost more than the amp would sell for. It has been noted that MESA saved $300.00 in parts when they switched to making Mark lll's so if you do that math, that alone would make them unprofitable. They'll sell you the JP2C as the "real" thing if you're buying it. The old C+ amps are antique in design anyway. Do you really want a single channel amp that wants to fight you all the the time like a boxer? Everyday it's something new with the tone you thought yesterday was the best. When you turn it up from bedroom level to practice or performance level the tone is radically different. Only severe tweekers crave that, most players want something more stable with independent EQ, gain and volume control. To think the JP2C is anything but a new design is kool-aid drinking thinking. Seriously, use your ears with Boogie amps, NOT YOUR EYES!!! The JP2C is nothing like a C+, a Mark lll is really, really close.

 

[xdg999]

Do I really want an antique single channel amp that sounds better than any amp I have ever played? Yes. I agree for most players a c+ is old school in design but for me I think that's why I like it. My mini mark is a great amp (when you swap out the stock 12ax7's for some nos chinese military) and has more tonal choices than my c+, but my c+ absolutely crushes it. I tried a friend's Mark III+ red stripe, too Marshally for me and it doesn't have the feel of my c+. I haven't played a JP-2C yet but if it comes close to my c+ I will probably buy it. And if Mesa ever reissue's a real c+.......

 

[CaliforniaBoogie]

I agree that, if anything, the JP2C will cause the price of the originals to increase. After the Mark V and JP2C, It's becoming evident that the tone and feel of the IIC+ simply cannot be replicated and while the V and JP2C are cool amps, they are no IIC+.

I also don't agree that the IIC+ varies from day to day. That, actually, has more to do with ear fatigue than the amp itself. Now differences in volume, sure, you'll need to adjust but what amp as versatile as the IIC+ doesn't require that? Antiquated, pffffftttt - it's an amp, not a smart phone.

 

[rich]

I definitely agree that there will not be an adverse impact to the resale value of the c+: if anything, the JP will cause the demand for original c+ amps to increase as people become exposed to the c+ tone out of the JP.

On that note, I disagree with some of the sentiment in this thread...imo the JP is definitely in the c+ family and very similar in tone/feel. I think Silverwulf's assessment in the thread linked below is spot on. My buddy and I compared his drg and my jp through a stereo cab yesterday; the drg had inherently more mids/focus and may be more conducive to leads while the jp had a slightly smoother/scooped tone that works great for metal rhythm. Both amps could be eq'd to sound very close as far as metal tones go, but the c+ has more flexibility (vol 1 and pull pots) that would make it a better choice for anything outside of metal (perhaps this is why some feel the jp isn't similar to the c+?). My takeaway was that the jp is a another variant of c+ but not an exact replica or reissue.

We also compared the v on c+ mode to the drg and jp: the v has a very quick response and urgency but it lacked the easy to play feeling and sub-bass presence that both the drg and c+ have (a pull deep on the v would be awesome).


http://forum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=71499

Also after owning the jp and playing the drg, id look to pickup a drg when i can scrape together some cash and id use the jp for playing out

 

[beng2040]

Every once in a while I'll scan the internet for a IIC+ for sale. I saw one recently for around $5000! I don't recall if it was original or not. But holy crap, not in my budget. Someday hopefully I'll get a true C+, in the meantime my III+ will have to suffice for my needs.

Yea, there's one on reverb for 5 grand or something. That might be the one you're talking about. Then a few days ago ponytrekker put up a post trying to give board members the first shot at one of his. It's also (like the 5 grand one) a DRG, but it's a combo with the imbuya. And it looked nice!! Sold for $3200 I think. And sold within an hour or two. A very good deal indeed. Sometimes you can get lucky and find a reasonable deal. But you gotta jump on it when you got the chance.

Wow, what's the going rate on an original IIC+ (not Mesa modded IIC) these days? I thought you could find one for $2500 or so not too long ago.

 

[DaveP]

It's always funny to hear people talk about a modded C to C+. It's the same amp, same tone, same feel. It's not a variation of a c+. It is a c+ after the mod.
I spoke with Mike B about this and he laughs and states it is a C+ when i'm done with it.

Point is, it's the best value for a C+. I will take a modded C+ just as fast as a factory one. It's the same amp and better IMO because to the 100 transformer compared to the 105. The 100 is more in line with the much desired export transformer.

 

[dlpasco]

It's always funny to hear people talk about a modded C to C+. It's the same amp, same tone, same feel. It's not a variation of a c+. It is a c+ after the mod.
I spoke with Mike B about this and he laughs and states it is a C+ when i'm done with it.

Point is, it's the best value for a C+. I will take a modded C+ just as fast as a factory one. It's the same amp and better IMO because to the 100 transformer compared to the 105. The 100 is more in line with the much desired export transformer.

At some point, I just want to put my head down and play music.

 

[gts]

It's always funny to hear people talk about a modded C to C+. It's the same amp, same tone, same feel. It's not a variation of a c+. It is a c+ after the mod.
I spoke with Mike B about this and he laughs and states it is a C+ when i'm done with it.

Point is, it's the best value for a C+. I will take a modded C+ just as fast as a factory one. It's the same amp and better IMO because to the 100 transformer compared to the 105. The 100 is more in line with the much desired export transformer.

At some point, I just want to put my head down and play music.

Same here and when playing through a C+ it responds in ways like no other and that the music just flows right outta me......

 

[xdg999]

I totally agree with gts. My c+ makes me want to play more. That elastic feel that it has is something else. And today was my lucky day. After years of searching I finally found another antique, single channel c+ HR combo like mine on reverb.com. It even has the original STR-415's. It will be interesting to see how close it sounds to mine. The search is over!

 

[richb]

I've owned two originals C+'s and fell in love with the organic tones from both my 60w and loaded simul class.
I now own a JP-2C and will say this first and foremost.
I've been playing Boogie since 1990 and have owned a bunch for sure.
I pride myself on knowing the art of how to dial in a Boogie.I have had many artists asking my advice on these amps and have taken my advice(no name drops)...to sound so true and or
this amp was very well thought out from both my friend JP and Randall Smith.
I can't believe i'm reading that this amp doesn't sound like a real C+
CAN'T BELIEVE IT!!!
I dial in ch 2 to sound exactly as a true C+ so EXACTLY it's scary.
i have a quad of STR 6L6 430's in it and am seriously floored.
For those that think it's not the real thing(and at Namm i thought the same)well i was wrong because it is!!!
Yes it really is..
and so much more -the cab clone
i have it hooked up to my Fractal Fx8 Mark II and am using the midi to control everything and it works flawlessly.
The Mark IIC+ is back and this time its not a one trick pony
Believe it.
Richb

 

[SamuelJ86]

Lay off the cool aid richb

 

[richb]

Lay off the cool aid richb

LOL

 

[Markedman]

Thanks Rich, excellent!

 

[CaliforniaBoogie]

I've owned two originals C+'s and fell in love with the organic tones from both my 60w and loaded simul class.
I now own a JP-2C and will say this first and foremost.
I've been playing Boogie since 1990 and have owned a bunch for sure.
I pride myself on knowing the art of how to dial in a Boogie.I have had many artists asking my advice on these amps and have taken my advice(no name drops)...to sound so true and or
this amp was very well thought out from both my friend JP and Randall Smith.
I can't believe i'm reading that this amp doesn't sound like a real C+
CAN'T BELIEVE IT!!!
I dial in ch 2 to sound exactly as a true C+ so EXACTLY it's scary.
i have a quad of STR 6L6 430's in it and am seriously floored.
For those that think it's not the real thing(and at Namm i thought the same)well i was wrong because it is!!!
Yes it really is..
and so much more -the cab clone
i have it hooked up to my Fractal Fx8 Mark II and am using the midi to control everything and it works flawlessly.
The Mark IIC+ is back and this time its not a one trick pony
Believe it.
Richb

Well believe it. Since their release, I compared a few next to a couple of my DRGs and while the JP2c is cool, it's no DRG. To me, as a guy that would love to leave his older amps at home and/or record in a more convenient fashion, there's no comparison.

And a one trick pony? Please :lol:

 

[IronSean]

I've owned two originals C+'s and fell in love with the organic tones from both my 60w and loaded simul class.
I now own a JP-2C and will say this first and foremost.
I've been playing Boogie since 1990 and have owned a bunch for sure.
I pride myself on knowing the art of how to dial in a Boogie.I have had many artists asking my advice on these amps and have taken my advice(no name drops)...to sound so true and or
this amp was very well thought out from both my friend JP and Randall Smith.
I can't believe i'm reading that this amp doesn't sound like a real C+
CAN'T BELIEVE IT!!!
I dial in ch 2 to sound exactly as a true C+ so EXACTLY it's scary.
i have a quad of STR 6L6 430's in it and am seriously floored.
For those that think it's not the real thing(and at Namm i thought the same)well i was wrong because it is!!!
Yes it really is..
and so much more -the cab clone
i have it hooked up to my Fractal Fx8 Mark II and am using the midi to control everything and it works flawlessly.
The Mark IIC+ is back and this time its not a one trick pony
Believe it.
Richb

Well believe it. Since their release, I compared a few next to a couple of my DRGs and while the JP2c is cool, it's no DRG. To me, as a guy that would love to leave his older amps at home and/or record in a more convenient fashion, there's no comparison.

And a one trick pony? Please :lol:

Though to be fair, what they released is an HRG.

 

[CaliforniaBoogie]

I've owned two originals C+'s and fell in love with the organic tones from both my 60w and loaded simul class.
I now own a JP-2C and will say this first and foremost.
I've been playing Boogie since 1990 and have owned a bunch for sure.
I pride myself on knowing the art of how to dial in a Boogie.I have had many artists asking my advice on these amps and have taken my advice(no name drops)...to sound so true and or
this amp was very well thought out from both my friend JP and Randall Smith.
I can't believe i'm reading that this amp doesn't sound like a real C+
CAN'T BELIEVE IT!!!
I dial in ch 2 to sound exactly as a true C+ so EXACTLY it's scary.
i have a quad of STR 6L6 430's in it and am seriously floored.
For those that think it's not the real thing(and at Namm i thought the same)well i was wrong because it is!!!
Yes it really is..
and so much more -the cab clone
i have it hooked up to my Fractal Fx8 Mark II and am using the midi to control everything and it works flawlessly.
The Mark IIC+ is back and this time its not a one trick pony
Believe it.
Richb

Well believe it. Since their release, I compared a few next to a couple of my DRGs and while the JP2c is cool, it's no DRG. To me, as a guy that would love to leave his older amps at home and/or record in a more convenient fashion, there's no comparison.

And a one trick pony? Please :lol:

Though to be fair, what they released is an HRG.

Yep, I agree with that sentiment. But, even though I'm not a "H" fan, I still think the ones I've owned/played edge the JP2c. But against a DRG, no, no contest.

 

[SamuelJ86]

On the board, I've definatly heard more c+ owners (past or present) compliment how well the JP2C sounds against the real deal than I have the opposite. That was not the case when the V came out. And to my ears, having never played an original, I don't see how any amp could sound better than the JP2C. My hat goes off to mesa, job well done! Whether is sounds exactly like an original or not, it sounds amazing to me.

 

[JOEY B.]

If MESA would take this platform and release a Simul-Class version, I think everyone would be happy.

With that being said, am I selling my old amps? HELL NO!

One trick pony, I think NOT!

I have nothing against new MESA products, as I just spent my money on a Bass Prodigy and 1x15 Powerhouse cabinet.

 

[danyeo1]

I haven't played the JP-2C but on another forum there are 2 people who had the JP-2C and sold them. 1 guy already has a IIC+, and the JP-2C obviously didn't better it for him. Another guy had the JP-2C, sold it, got a IIC+ and is doing back flips. 2nd guy isn't a typical Mesa guy but the IIC+ he got seems to be blowing him away where as the JP-2C didn't.

Me, I've owned all the Mark series as far as IIC. PLenty of III's, and IV's, and about 3 IIC+'s. I had the V and that was my least favorite of all of them. Right now all I have is an old IV. For live use the old IIC+'s are limited and the IV solved a lot of issues, footswitching the FX is big for me and I've been able to dial in the IV for what I believe is a much closer IIC+ tone than the V could ever get.

I'd like to try the JP-2C and I imagine Mesa got this one right. I thought the little 25 kicked but and the 35 looks cool.