Green Stripe vs. No Stripe

[Marcus71]

Last week I posted about my Mark III that I just purchased. It was one of the early units and has a serial number of 16,xxx. There is no black dot or black stripe on it. Just Mike B's initials.

Prior to buying this amp I contacted a guy who had a Mark III green stripe for sale on Craigslist. However, he told me someone was buying his Mark. He emailed me on Saturday to let me know the buyer flaked out and the Mark was available. I told him about the one I bought.

He is an electrical engineer and huge Mesa fan. We had a nice discussion about the Mesa Mark series amps and I learned a lot. I made a remark that I bought a Carl Martin Plexi-Tone. He found that odd and said the Mesa should be good enough for any of my distortion needs (within reason). I told him I planned on using Channel 1 with the pedal. He told me that he gets great tone on his amp from the Lead channel. He said I should try it. In other words, I don't need a distortion pedal with this amp, or at least his amp.

Today was the first time I got to really play this amp at a proper volume. I went and jammed with some guys but got there early so I could put together a workable tone. Not only is my amp new to me, but so is my PRS.

I did try the Lead channel. I left Volume 1 on about 7, Lead Gain also around 7. I put the Lead Master (pulled) around 7, and then used Master 1 to set the proper overall volume. It never got above 4 and this was playing with a drummer and another guitarist in a garage.

Even if I cranked the Lead Gain up to 10, the Lead channel never got really creamy. It sounded a lot like a Plexi. It was great AC/DC type tone. Amazing. But it wouldn't go any further than that.

It was interesting but the crunch mode on the Plexi-Tone pedal sounded a lot like the Mesa on the Lead channel. Very, very similar. The high gain mode on the pedal didn't sound really good through the Lead channel. It did sound ok through Channel 1 but not what I want. It was a bit too processed when it got to the compression and sustain I want.

I called the guy with the green stripe back. He told me to call him if I wasn't super happy with my amp and wanted to hear his. He told me his amp gets a lot more distortion than what I was describing. He said by the time the Mark III got to the green stripe, the Lead channel had been changed significantly to give higher gain. According to him, even the clean channel was made better along the way.

Is this all true? Based on what I have read, it appears to be.

His green stripe has two mods, performed by Mike B himself. One is a reverb mod, which he said sounds very Twin Reverb-like. The other mod was to Rhythm 2 to fix the huge volume gain you get when going from channel 1 to Rhythm 2.

Is there anyone with a green stripe that can confirm this? I am a total Noob when it comes to the Mark amps (obviously). I had no idea what the engine under the hood was like.

My Mark has an EVM in it and his has a Celestion 80 in it which he said might better suit the sound I am looking for.

This is fun!

Thanks!

 

[Marcus71]

Now a red stripe has popped up for $100 less.

:shock:

 

[mesamark3]

Barring any functional or operational issues with the amp, when dialed in, the lead channel should be melting your face off, regardless of the color of the stripe. I have a red stripe combo and I use the following settings which provides great tonality across all 3 channels:

(From left to right)

Volume: 8-9 (PULL)
Treble: 7-8 (PULL)
Mid: 5
Bass: 3
Lead Gain (7-8)
Master = Lead Volume (I set both at around 2 and it's plenty loud)
Presence: 3-4

Try this and see what you think. If all your still getting is an AC/DC-ish type of lead tone, something is going on with the amp.

 

[dodger916]

This might help: http://homepage.mac.com/mesaboogie/dot.html

 

[Marcus71]

This might help: http://homepage.mac.com/mesaboogie/dot.html

I already read that page. And it appears that starting with the red stripe the gain was increased in the lead channel.

Barring any functional or operational issues with the amp, when dialed in, the lead channel should be melting your face off, regardless of the color of the stripe. I have a red stripe combo and I use the following settings which provides great tonality across all 3 channels:

(From left to right)

Volume: 8-9 (PULL)
Treble: 7-8 (PULL)
Mid: 5
Bass: 3
Lead Gain (7-8)
Master = Lead Volume (I set both at around 2 and it's plenty loud)
Presence: 3-4

That's pretty much where I had it set. Almost exactly. However, I did pull the Lead Master.

I am going to check out this red stripe. The guy lives close to me and wants $850 for it. I can return the current Mark I bought last week.

 

[bartchamdoh]

I have long ponderd this very topic, i have a greenie and 2 purples i would say the greenie has more gain in channel 2 and 3 and the channels balance better,but i can tweak them so that in a a/b situation they both sound similar unfortunately the 2 purples are non eq, it does give an edge....but then again i use a pedal up front for gain and the non eq amps require less care and maintenance and are less hassle(eq,s are prone to numerous probs and are hard to get replacement parts for).

 

[MrMarkIII]

You should check to see that there are 12AX7s in the pre-amp tube slots, and not their lower-gain cousins, like 12AT7, or 5751, etc. Many folks do this, it's safe and all, but the gain goes down.
On a Mark III, the tube nearest the input jack is the tube the signal hits first (V1), and the third 12AX7 is the Lead Channel tube (V3).
Try balancing the Master and Lead Master a bit closer to each other.
Whichever control is set higher will have the most effect on total loudness, but running the overall Master higher will get the power tubes cooking a bit more, and fatten up the sound.
Ultimate sustain is a combination of factors, not the least is the age of your strings, your guitar's set-up, where you stand in relation to the speakers, and um, technique.
In agree with your experience that running a high gain pedal into a high gain channel results in mush, at best.
The green stripe will seem a little cleaner in R1, because it's wired a bit cleaner (pentode vs. triode). So there's a bit more headroom. I crank my Volume up to 8 or 9, but I like that sound, some prefer pristine cleans.
But, the higher you run the Volume, the hotter the signal overall.
Pulling the pull-knobs mostly makes things brighter, not more saturated, and will get you squealing feedback the more you crank it, so pull your knob sparingly, like your mom said :lol: . Same with the Presence control. To my ear, brighter sounds cleaner, and it seems you are seeking more dirt, not less.

 

[JOEY B.]

Even if I cranked the Lead Gain up to 10, the Lead channel never got really creamy. It sounded a lot like a Plexi. It was great AC/DC type tone. Amazing. But it wouldn't go any further than that.

Try new preamp tubes. Also try using the pull knobs to select your channels (pull middle and pull lead drive).. This will eliminate any footswitch/cable problems. The gain on the lead channel of the various striped Mark III amps does not vary that much, but the R2 channel does. The later stripes sound more refined to my ears, like an evolution of sorts. The EVM-12L speaker has not a **** thing to do with any lack of gain, believe me. 8)

 

[Marcus71]

I just listened to a red stripe. To my ears it had only a little more gain than the one I already have. But it was noisy. Mine is quiet.

I hate hunting tone, except I don't. It's frustrating hearing something in my head and trying to piece together gear to make the sound. :?

Maybe I am not meant to play a Mark series amp. I don't know. I had a Mark IV that I used as a backup and kept in my apartment. From what I remember, it sounded great at low volume. It had a lot more gain in the lead channel than my Mark III. But I never heard the amp loud.

I am always trying to blend just the right amount of preamp gain with power tube tone. That's my tone or at least where I find it. That dual recto I used to have did not sound anything like any other one I have heard. I was using it much differently than most do. Consequently, it had a very unique tone because it wasn't being drown in the channel/mode voicing that most people use. :roll:

That rig didn't sound like a Marshall, Fender, Hiwatt, etc. It sounded like my amp. And it had balls. Hitting an open E chord while standing in front of it on a stage was magical. Maybe I should go that route again. But the dual rectos just sound different to me.

 

[boatright]

I posted a similar story week before last, after having a bit of the same issue with tone. In my case I just wasn't hearing enough harmonic content. Too much punch... Way too cranked Marshall in the lead channel.

I ended up swapping the preamp tubes with the new tung sol 12AX7s and it made a world of difference. That the first place I'd start.

 

[Marcus71]

I just said the hell with it and got a Mark V.

 

[droptrd]

:lol:

 

[Devnor]

Swap some tubes. At your settings my green stripe Mark III would indeed melt your face off.

 

[chipaudette]

Assuming that you've got the right tubes in there, it's my opinion that the Mark III wasn't working right. Based on the description of an AC/DC level of gain, it sounds like some of the LDRs weren't switching the lead circuit into the signal path.

Another piece of evidence is when the original post said that the amp was running with "Lead Master" at 7 and with "Master" at 4. This should be blowing the walls off with loudness. Since you're not dead, I'm thinking that the signal is not going through the lead circuit. Instead, it is just going through the straight signal path (look at the schem).

Note that there are several different LDRs/Relays used for switching in Mark III amps. Only one of them might be broken...a failure of either the LDR going to the lead circuit or of the LDR coming from the lead circuit would cause this problem. If the others are switches are still working, then your Lead tone controls and volume controls would still function. It sounds like they work just fine. So, I think that it's your LDRs that are suspicious.

Finally, you should know that LDRs don't always fail completely. They sometimes only partially conduct. So, if your Lead Drive knob still works (does it still work?), then some signal must be getting to the lead circuit. It is very possible that the LDR going to the Lead Circuit is partially conducting...but not nearly as much as it should be. This will reduce the apparent gain of the lead channel...and sound like AC/DC.

If you're lead drive knob has little or no effect, then I bet one or both of the LDRs are dead. You're still getting some distortion because just the pull-shift on the lead channel's treble knob is enough to give some decent classic rock distortion. Sound familiar?

So, I'm glad that you bought a Mark V. I hope it rocks. That Mark III can probably be fixed pretty cheaply, though. Then you could have TWO amps!

Chip

 

[droptrd]

+1 my purple too

Swap some tubes. At your settings my green stripe Mark III would indeed melt your face off.