Getting the right amp for the job...

[Animeka]

I'm looking for a Mesa amp for my son. He's 12 and plays really good. He's into Dream Theater and Petrucci these days, and I feel that the Roland Cube 30 and POD XT Live doesn't do justice to the tone

I need something that sounds good at low levels (bedroom use), so I dont think a 4x12 is appropriate

I've been suggested to find a Mark IV combo or head. If I go with a head, are there 1x12 boxes out there? I've seen the 2x12 but that might be a bit much?

Thanks for the input!

Oh and if you're in the mood to see a 12 year old playing Petrucci, check out www.youtube.com/animeka (Sorry for the plug, just a proud daddy here )

Marc

 

[Artmusic]

Very cool, you should be proud. My daughter is 12 and is in her 5th year of classical piano, she too is amazing. You might want to look into the Mesa F-30. I have one and it is a great sounding amp. It is 30 watts with nice in your face gain. It comes with 1x12" speaker, as a combo. You can find them used, (they are dis-continued), for around $500. Good luck.
Art

 

[coppa]

people seem to love mk4 for leads.. consderng that hes 12 make sure he never tries to move it him self its going to be a heavy rig.

any tube amp is gong to weight a lot.

if hes not playing anything that requires teh br00talz as far as gain. then perhaps an express 5:25 head with a 1x12. sounds good at low volumes. has a 5 watt mode. not too huge and heavy.

 

[siggy14]

Honestly he is gonna need the or want the 4x12 at some point, dont waste your money on 1x12's, just go right for the the 4x12 and get it over with.

With the 4x12 you can use just two of the speakers at 4 ohm as the cabinet can be split in stereo. So for bedroom play that will be great, and then when he goes out he can use all four speakers. More then likley if he is that good he is gonna be starting a band soon enough and playing parties and garages which will not have a PA and that is why the 4x12 will be better. Also I would suggest one of the older mark cabs, they are smaller or the traditional cab which is only slightly larger.

As to DT, he for most of his career used Mark IV's, but find out which are your son's favorite albums and find out if John used the RK or the IV on that album.

I'm looking for a Mesa amp for my son. He's 12 and plays really good. He's into Dream Theater and Petrucci these days, and I feel that the Roland Cube 30 and POD XT Live doesn't do justice to the tone

I need something that sounds good at low levels (bedroom use), so I dont think a 4x12 is appropriate

I've been suggested to find a Mark IV combo or head. If I go with a head, are there 1x12 boxes out there? I've seen the 2x12 but that might be a bit much?

Thanks for the input!

Oh and if you're in the mood to see a 12 year old playing Petrucci, check out www.youtube.com/animeka (Sorry for the plug, just a proud daddy here )

Marc

 

[mrd]

Yeah I'd vote for a MKIV too if he's into Dream Theater. I'm pretty sure (correct me if I'm wrong) that John only used the Road King on Train of Thought, maybe a bit on Octavarium?

You can get 1x12 cabs yeah... but I would say go for the 4x12 if you an afford it. Like someone mentioned, he's gonna get one eventually, so may as well get it over with.

Or maybe get him a 1x12 or 2x12 then set him up on a schedule of chores to help him save up for half the price of a 4x12 or something so that he appreciates it more instead of just having an $900 piece of wood & speakers dumped on his lap.

Also, get him earplugs and make sure he uses the **** things! A lot of kids these days don't seem to give a **** about their hearing, but for musicians it is essential. Protect what you have. If he's worried about looking stupid or some ****, tell him that's stupid, and get him some nice Etymotic Research ones which are almost invisible, or better yet some musician's plugs.

 

[Kaz]

hahaha! I'm sharing this video with some guitar friends of mine. Your son is a great player (better than myself, not that it takes much to be better than me) and will probably do great things with guitar at some point!

I agree about the head. Saves money in the long run.

 

[Animeka]

Honestly he is gonna need the or want the 4x12 at some point, dont waste your money on 1x12's, just go right for the the 4x12 and get it over with.

With the 4x12 you can use just two of the speakers at 4 ohm as the cabinet can be split in stereo. So for bedroom play that will be great, and then when he goes out he can use all four speakers. More then likley if he is that good he is gonna be starting a band soon enough and playing parties and garages which will not have a PA and that is why the 4x12 will be better. Also I would suggest one of the older mark cabs, they are smaller or the traditional cab which is only slightly larger.

As to DT, he for most of his career used Mark IV's, but find out which are your son's favorite albums and find out if John used the RK or the IV on that album.

His favorite albums, mostly Octavarium, Systematic Chaos and JP's solo album...

 

[Animeka]

hahaha! I'm sharing this video with some guitar friends of mine. Your son is a great player (better than myself, not that it takes much to be better than me) and will probably do great things with guitar at some point!

I agree about the head. Saves money in the long run.

Thanks

What are the differences in heads? Short/Medium/wide or ... Is it simply the housing size?

Marc

 

[jdurso]

I'm looking for a Mesa amp for my son. He's 12 and plays really good. He's into Dream Theater and Petrucci these days, and I feel that the Roland Cube 30 and POD XT Live doesn't do justice to the tone

I need something that sounds good at low levels (bedroom use), so I dont think a 4x12 is appropriate

I've been suggested to find a Mark IV combo or head. If I go with a head, are there 1x12 boxes out there? I've seen the 2x12 but that might be a bit much?

Thanks for the input!

Oh and if you're in the mood to see a 12 year old playing Petrucci, check out www.youtube.com/animeka (Sorry for the plug, just a proud daddy here )

Marc

you've trained him well. is he after petrucci-esk tones or just jumping up to a real amp? i would find out (if he knows) what kind of tone he wants and go from there. if it has to be a mesa with petrucci like tone you obviously have the mark 4 combo which you can match with a 1x12 or 2x12. another amp i say would get him there is the dc-5 or dc-10. to me they sound somewhat inbetween a mark and a recto. they're chock full of tone. someone mentioned the express which i think is a great choice for a low volume amp that can get loud if needed. like many have brought out you may want to look ahead and go after one of the big boys so your boy can grow into it. again a mark 4 with the right cab is a killer choice. if the funds are there maybe even a roadster.

as far as cabs there are 1x12s made by almost ever manufacturer. i would highly recommend for low volume big sounds is a freda live cab. they come in 1x1s and 2x12s and sound way bigger than the box their coming out of. they're great for low volume practice and sound incredible when cranked. plus, especially for a young tike, they are very very light weigt compared to other cabs of their size. 2x12s weight in at 40 lbs louded which is about 10-25 lbs lighter than other 2x12s. whatever the case see if you can get him to a guitar center or another guitar shop with a wide selection. not only will your son get a better picture of what he wants, you can make everyone's jaws drop at that shop :lol: good luck and keep that kid playing

 

[trem]

You're a great dad! Dads should spend more time with their kids. So far my 3 yo daughter runs away real quick everytime I play my guitar.

BTW, no difference in feature between the short and medium heads, just the size. Well, the short format can be rack mounted, and it's what Petrucci likes.

 

[Axxis]

Well I have the Express 5:25 with the 10" speaker and it's great for bedroom play. This is also my first tube amp and I love it. I've never really been able to afford something in this range before and let me tell ya I read review after review, played played and played some more. Brought my guitar/pedals everything to multiple music stores and spent almost 2 months waiting to make a decision. I had the cash to get the 5:50 too but I actually liked the 25 better. The 12" speaker wasn't out for the 25 yet when I bought mine but he has one now and told me he'd swap me out for 50 bucks. (I've been friends with this guy for a long time and I've bought a few thousand dollars worth of gear there over the past 5 years.) I've really been thinking about it b/c I could use the headroom for when I need it but honestly I like the 10" for bedroom use. I think I'm going to talk to him about getting a nice 2x12" cab to hook up to it and d/c the 10" for when I need volume. I absolutely love this amp, no joke. and since he's so young the express (either one) can get a pretty wide variety of tones as well. I wouldn't want to get him something one sided and later one he gets into a different kind of music. Adolescence changed us all, lol. Anyways, whatever you decide good luck and have fun doing it! Buying and playing new stuff is half of the fun of being a musician.

 

[Animeka]

You're a great dad! Dads should spend more time with their kids. So far my 3 yo daughter runs away real quick everytime I play my guitar.

BTW, no difference in feature between the short and medium heads, just the size. Well, the short format can be rack mounted, and it's what Petrucci likes.

Thanks, I'm doing my best, but he's becoming expensive I bought him a Squier 3/4 length (you can see it on the wall in his videos, it's been signed by the lead singer and lead guitarist of Collective Soul) and a crappy marshall amp 4 years ago, (he asked for it, after seeing a summer day camp monitor play), then I decided to learn and play with him so I bought a squier strat and a behringer amp. Since then, it's been a POD XT Live, 2 Roland Cube 30, 2 PRS Tremonti SEs, an Ibanez S620EXQM when he asked to learn to play lead, then I sold the 2 PRS's and got him a JP6 LTD 2007. NOBODY told me that playing guitar was such an expensive and complicated hobby. SOOOOO much to learn other than the instrument itself

Marc

 

[Animeka]

Well I have the Express 5:25 with the 10" speaker and it's great for bedroom play. This is also my first tube amp and I love it. I've never really been able to afford something in this range before and let me tell ya I read review after review, played played and played some more. Brought my guitar/pedals everything to multiple music stores and spent almost 2 months waiting to make a decision. I had the cash to get the 5:50 too but I actually liked the 25 better. The 12" speaker wasn't out for the 25 yet when I bought mine but he has one now and told me he'd swap me out for 50 bucks. (I've been friends with this guy for a long time and I've bought a few thousand dollars worth of gear there over the past 5 years.) I've really been thinking about it b/c I could use the headroom for when I need it but honestly I like the 10" for bedroom use. I think I'm going to talk to him about getting a nice 2x12" cab to hook up to it and d/c the 10" for when I need volume. I absolutely love this amp, no joke. and since he's so young the express (either one) can get a pretty wide variety of tones as well. I wouldn't want to get him something one sided and later one he gets into a different kind of music. Adolescence changed us all, lol. Anyways, whatever you decide good luck and have fun doing it! Buying and playing new stuff is half of the fun of being a musician.

I was thinking of getting an F30 2 years ago... The 5:25 seems like a good short term solution, but I can ALMOST get a Mark IV for the same price... (used but still). Would the 5:25 be worlds apart from the Roland Cube 30 he has now? (I dont want to get into tube vs transistor debate - just thinking if it's worth spending the $$ or really go for a MK4).

As for the adolescence changes us all comment, I just hope he doesn't turn into a R&B/rap fan...

Marc

 

[Animeka]

you've trained him well. is he after petrucci-esk tones or just jumping up to a real amp? i would find out (if he knows) what kind of tone he wants and go from there. if it has to be a mesa with petrucci like tone you obviously have the mark 4 combo which you can match with a 1x12 or 2x12. another amp i say would get him there is the dc-5 or dc-10. to me they sound somewhat inbetween a mark and a recto. they're chock full of tone. someone mentioned the express which i think is a great choice for a low volume amp that can get loud if needed. like many have brought out you may want to look ahead and go after one of the big boys so your boy can grow into it. again a mark 4 with the right cab is a killer choice. if the funds are there maybe even a roadster.

as far as cabs there are 1x12s made by almost ever manufacturer. i would highly recommend for low volume big sounds is a freda live cab. they come in 1x1s and 2x12s and sound way bigger than the box their coming out of. they're great for low volume practice and sound incredible when cranked. plus, especially for a young tike, they are very very light weigt compared to other cabs of their size. 2x12s weight in at 40 lbs louded which is about 10-25 lbs lighter than other 2x12s. whatever the case see if you can get him to a guitar center or another guitar shop with a wide selection. not only will your son get a better picture of what he wants, you can make everyone's jaws drop at that shop :lol: good luck and keep that kid playing

I didn't train him guitar-wise.. He's taking private lessons at a local music school. I tried learning at the same time but couldn't keep up

He's really into DT and Petrucci right now, and trying hard with the POD XT to get the tone or close to it. He didnt ask for anything, he's at summer camp right now and I'm trying to see if I can surprise him with something before he comes back. a 4x12 is way too big for our house. A combo would be more practical, but might not be a good idea longterm (unless a combo can be converted to a standalone head?)

As for jaws dropping, when we got him the JP6, some 20something guy was playing Glasgow Kiss in the store, then my son started playing along with him lol That was funny to watch.

Marc

 

[Herbie the Rad Dorklift]

JP used the Roadkings mainly on Octavarium, exclusively on Suspended Animation, and used the Mark IVs mainly on Systematic Chaos.

I vote Mark IV coz it's awesome :razz:

How patient is he? It can take a while to dial in a monster tone with it, but once you have it.... wow!

Also, he'll need to read the manual long and hard!

I have the 1x12 combo, and it's easily loud enough for gigs (I gig at least once a week, most venues 400ish capacity) although I am getting a 1x12 extension cab for extra bass response.

 

[jdurso]

I didn't train him guitar-wise.. He's taking private lessons at a local music school. I tried learning at the same time but couldn't keep up

He's really into DT and Petrucci right now, and trying hard with the POD XT to get the tone or close to it. He didnt ask for anything, he's at summer camp right now and I'm trying to see if I can surprise him with something before he comes back. a 4x12 is way too big for our house. A combo would be more practical, but might not be a good idea longterm (unless a combo can be converted to a standalone head?)

As for jaws dropping, when we got him the JP6, some 20something guy was playing Glasgow Kiss in the store, then my son started playing along with him lol That was funny to watch.

Marc

if he's after petrucci tone then hands down the mark iv. it'll take some patience to learn how to dial it in but he'll be very staified in the end. if you think a combo is best for now then get a combo (they're still loud as hell). He can always add extension cabs or trade up in gear. Also a less expensive alternative but equally as good a choice for petrucci ton is the dc-5 and dc-10 combos. Again even a 1x12 combo is going to be loud due to the wattage of the amps.

if you wnat soemthing more bedroom level that sounds great look into the express series. with the right OD in front you can get the right heaviness and lead tones, plus to me they have the best cleans out of all the mesa's. the best part for low volumes is that you can nock botht he 5:25 and 5:50 down to 5 watts whcih will get you more of the cranked tone at reasonable volumes.

also you may want to look at some better effects for that true petrucci tone... not a $6000 eventide or a $2000 tc reverb unit but maybe something like the tc electronic nova system because they sound way better than the pods IMO... not trying to spend your money for you, just looking out for the kids tone :wink: good luck man and let us know what you end up going with

 

[Herbie the Rad Dorklift]

If the Mark IV is wanted for bedroom levels, simply select "Tweed" half power setting, Class A (2 power tubes instead of 4) and Triode.

you will still get all the gain you want, thanks to the quicker tube breakup point of Class A.

 

[jdurso]

You're a great dad! Dads should spend more time with their kids. So far my 3 yo daughter runs away real quick everytime I play my guitar.

BTW, no difference in feature between the short and medium heads, just the size. Well, the short format can be rack mounted, and it's what Petrucci likes.

Thanks, I'm doing my best, but he's becoming expensive I bought him a Squier 3/4 length (you can see it on the wall in his videos, it's been signed by the lead singer and lead guitarist of Collective Soul) and a crappy marshall amp 4 years ago, (he asked for it, after seeing a summer day camp monitor play), then I decided to learn and play with him so I bought a squier strat and a behringer amp. Since then, it's been a POD XT Live, 2 Roland Cube 30, 2 PRS Tremonti SEs, an Ibanez S620EXQM when he asked to learn to play lead, then I sold the 2 PRS's and got him a JP6 LTD 2007. NOBODY told me that playing guitar was such an expensive and complicated hobby. SOOOOO much to learn other than the instrument itself

Marc

so 12 year olds get GAS too... i think it comes with the territory. there is a lot of great stuff out there and unfortunately it sometimes takes a lot of buying and selling before you find the right fit. Many of us here have been through almost every amp in the mesa line at least once. I've learned that spending the extra $$ on pieces that retain their value is the best way to go. So a Mark IV would fit into that frame of thinking. You can pick one up between 1200-1500 depending on condition and that amp will pretty much hold its value especially since they're discontinued. The only thing that might reduce the value for a certian amount of time is when mesa releases the Mark V (if they ever do even though petrucci is rumored to be using a prototype of it) because alot of Mark IV uses will be selling their amp to fund a Mark V. You may wnat to wait until then so you'll get a good deal (but that may not happen any time soon). And i have a feeling after the Mark V comes out and everyones gone through their honeymoons the value of the mark IV will rise again. Just speculation at this point but its something to consider.

 

[Animeka]

I think I'll take him to try a 5:25. That'll be a good entry point for the mesa line, and we'll see where that leads us. Waiting for the Mark V might be a good idea but by then, we might want one too lol

Update:
I just called for a price on the 5:25 and it's 1289$CAD for a 10" and 1339$ for a 12". Plus taxes... Ouch Almost the same price as a used Mark IV. Hmmm..

"There's too much confusion, I can't get no relief..."

Marc

 

[Animeka]

so 12 year olds get GAS too... i think it comes with the territory. there is a lot of great stuff out there and unfortunately it sometimes takes a lot of buying and selling before you find the right fit. Many of us here have been through almost every amp in the mesa line at least once. I've learned that spending the extra $$ on pieces that retain their value is the best way to go. So a Mark IV would fit into that frame of thinking. You can pick one up between 1200-1500 depending on condition and that amp will pretty much hold its value especially since they're discontinued. The only thing that might reduce the value for a certian amount of time is when mesa releases the Mark V (if they ever do even though petrucci is rumored to be using a prototype of it) because alot of Mark IV uses will be selling their amp to fund a Mark V. You may wnat to wait until then so you'll get a good deal (but that may not happen any time soon). And i have a feeling after the Mark V comes out and everyones gone through their honeymoons the value of the mark IV will rise again. Just speculation at this point but its something to consider.

Uh what is GAS? Sounds nasty lol

He's not actually the one wanting stuff, I'm the one who likes to spend for him... He's lucky I can sort of afford all this

Marc