getting serious...

[MesaKiwi]

Hey this is me losing my posting virginity....please be gentle!!I've owned my Mesa Dual Rectifier (three channel) for about 3 years now.
Its my second Amplifier, i wont name my first or i'll get shot. I basically went from the very bottom to what I think is somewhere up the top, now that I own this Mesa Boogie.
I spent years just turning the thing on and playing balls to the wall. One day it just hit me, I thought to myself "what is this big shiny thing with all these knobs and lights?!!"

Please forgive my naievity, I bought the Amp knowing I was going to be playing for the rest of my life so I wanted something that had huge potential.
I was a very late starter (picked up my first guitar at the age of 21, I am now 28years old). Had more passion than experience etc..

I play an Edwards LP-85CD with DeArmond Gold Tone pups.
Ashton 4x12 quad with celestion speakers. Dont use pedals or anything fancy coz basically I havnt gotten that far yet.
I have been playing seriously for the last 5 years, same band, touring etc. I play punk rock n roll (think Social Distortion, Dropkick Murphys, Street Dogs).

After coming across this forum and observing the depth of knowledge of the users, I realised I want to get into the technical side of things a little more in regards to my Dual Rec.
Im gonna get eaten alive for this but.....i havent changed anything on my amp since I bought it. It still sounds as good as the day I got it though.
It still has everything stock in it. 2 5uG's, 4x Str440 power tubes and 5 x 12Ax7 in the preamps. Its time I got in there and started playing around so what do you think??
I used all the options and settings the amp provides (el34's or 6l6's, raw, vintage, modern, vacuum, spongy, bold etc etc, but it just doesnt quite give me the sound I now desire.

Im after a similar sound to some of the above mentioned bands. I know the pre Amp tubes are more important than the Power Tubes so maybe I should start there?

Anyone have a nice pre amp line up that could get me close or nearer that specific sound??

Sorry for the rant but I just want you all to know where Im coming from as a player and how keen I am to learn.

Thanks all,

Kiwi

 

[carlsoti]

Kiwi, I mean this in all seriousness, and I'm not flaming you or anything, but, if it still sounds good to you, why change anything?

 

[tetsubin]

It still sounds as good as the day I got it though.
It still has everything stock in it. 2 5uG's, 4x Str440 power tubes and 5 x 12Ax7 in the preamps. Its time I got in there and started playing around so what do you think??

Hi Kiwi,
so you made recordings when you first got your amp and do regular comparisons with them? If not, then there's no chance telling if it still sounds as good as the day you got it.
I wouldn't call it playing around, but simple maintenance. You should definitely change the power tubes before they go bad - five years with band practice have put a lot of wear on them. I don't have to be a clairvoyant to tell you that they don't sound the same as the day you got your amp. The preamp tubes might actually still be fine.

tetsubin

 

[MesaKiwi]

Hey guys,
What I should have said was, when I first got the amp I was just stoked that it was loud. All I knew was power chords. The whole punk rock thing.
I bought Mesa because the smart part of me (the only smart thing) at that time told me I would have it for a loooong time.

You know, you guys are right... The latest recording I have was about a year ago. The sound I had then is the complete opposite of what I have now, I just dont know how I got it.
Another thing, this is something that has baffled me recently. If I have 4 STR440 Mesa Power Tubes, all identical.
What exactly is happening when I flip the switch on the back from 6l6's to EL34's?? I notice the change in sound etc, but what technically is happening??

Thanks again,

Kiwi

 

[tetsubin]

RTFM. Or: That's what manuals are for. (It's a rebiasing switch for use with EL34 tubes only, not with 6L6s!)
And don't touch the amp again before you've read the manual :lol:

 

[carlsoti]

What tetsubin said may sound harsh, but it's the truth. If you've been flipping that switch without knowing the possible outcomes, it may save you a LOT of money to read up on what all the controls do. In short, that switch alters the voltages needed to run the different sets of tubes. you could possibly kill the amp messing with that.

 

[MesaKiwi]

ooops

So that would explain why it was getting rather hot :roll:

Ok so thats an important lesson learned, thats why Im on here.
Replacing my Power Tubes is on the cards then I think after what I have put them through.

EL34's are more of a metal harsher tone arent they?
I have read on this forum that some people run on just 2 Power Tubes for the 50 watts. Why??
What sound does that create?

Thanks Tetsubin and Carlsoti for the wake up!

 

[carlsoti]

I can't speak on the differences between the sound of the el34's compared to the 6l6's as both of my amps run el84's. The idea of running lower wattage is that you can push the power tubes harder. (from here on out is where we get to the "subjective" stuff) The idea of "pushing the power tubes harder" is that you get more power-tube distortion, as "opposed" to, or more specifically, in relation to preamp tube distortion. Power tube distortion has the effect of "compressing" the signal, so that the "dynamicly"(sp?) loud tones don't "jump out" as much; it sort of creates that "singing" sustain you can't really get anywhere else. I tend to prefer power tube distortion to preamp distortion, though I don't really play any metal type music anymore. the best way for me to describe the difference is this:

Pre-amp tube distortion= metallica-type sounds
Power-tube distortion= santana-type sounds

It's all a bit more complex than that, technically speaking, but that's the jist of it.

 

[MesaKiwi]

See what the manual lacks is being able to explain things in the way carlsoti just did.
Your description could not be any clearer!!

I too prefer a santana-type sound over a metallica-type sound.
If I was to pull out 2 Power Tubes, I understand the pairing system (the 2 outside Tubes / the 2 inside Tubes).
Is there a difference either way?

Kiwi

 

[carlsoti]

I'm not sure if there's a tonal difference between pulling the inside pair or outside pair, but BEFORE you pull any of them, make sure you can do that to your amp without damage. (Talk to a tech, or ask around on here. when you get your answer, THEN ask the question of tone to the person that tells you if you can) I have yet to find anyone that can tell me if I can do that with my Rocket 44. (I would LOVE to be able to without modification)

 

[stokes]

Pulling two power tubes in a four tube output is not a good idea,unless you check and reset the bias.You will also alter the impedance matching of your output transformer to the speaker load.For instance using a Fender Twin OT in a 2 power tube output I built required an 8ohm speaker load as opposed to the 4ohm load that would be needed for a 4 power tube output.Some OT's can stand some impedance mismatch better than others,but in any case mismatching impedances will have varying degrees of impact on power tube life.

 

[Anonymous]

Pulling 2 tubes on a DR is safe. However, when you plug your cab in, you need to put it into a slot of half the impedance. If you've got an 8ohm cab, plug it into the 4ohm spot.Like you said, it's the outer or inner pair that has to be pulled.

 

[stokes]

Unless the amp has a half power switch (the only schem I have for a DR doesnt) when you pull two tubes your bias point will change,it may be in range since Mesa biases cold,but I wouldnt recomend it unless you can check the bias to be sure.If the amp has a half power switch,there is no reason to pull tubes,since the switch lifts the cathodes on 2 tubes,effectively "pulling"that pair.

 

[Dominus22]

Pulling two tubes in a DR is fine, it says so right in the manual. It doesn't matter which two you pull as long as they are the two outside ones or the two insude ones. You will also need to pull one of the rectifier tubes (it doesn't matter which one) or switch to silicone diode rectifier mode, and make sure you use one of the outputs on your head that is half the impedance of your cabinet. For example, if you have an 8 ohm input on your cab, use the 4 ohm output on your head.

That being said, why don't you want to run all four tubes? It sounds a hell of a lot better that way to me.

 

[fishyfishfish]

Well, just an opinion, you might just be on the tail end of your power tubes so I would pick up a quad of power tubes and a set of fuses just to be on the safe side. If you liked the sound of the amp when you bought it, just get some regular Boogie 6l6 tubes and, AFTER READING THE MANUAL!, pop them in and go. For more of a mid-range warmer sound you can try EL34's, or just stick with stock tubes. You shouldn't have to change out the Rectifier or Preamp tubes unless they go out (And you will know this), and you might want to get a book called "The Guitar Amp Handbook" by Dave Hunter. Great read, and it will give you all the information you need in one book that is easy to understand. \m/