General Triple Recto questions

[mackenziedeth]

Hey there,

I personally am not the most experienced person when it comes to tube amps, but I'm looking into picking one up in the very near future and I had a quick question. Now, I plan on buying a Triple Rectifier half stack from a user here, more than likely sometime this week. I'm at the moment starting to have some buyers apprehension. Not because of the situation or anything, just because of the choice of amp. I'm really excited about picking up a rectifier, but I'm wondering if 150 watts is too much. Now, I know I would never need 150 watts regardless, but Im wondering with a 150Watt amp if I will be able to get it to a high enough volume as to push the tubes hard enough to get that true tube tone rather than the low volume flub and crap that tube amps often can produce. This brings me to my questions:

A) On a triple rectifier, how high would I need to have the volume set to truly get the most out of the amp and the best sound from the tubes? I'll be using it for small club shows and the like.

B) I read somewhere (don't remember where) that on a dual rectifier, you can take out 2 of the tubes (power tubes?) which will bring it from 100 to 50 watts, thus giving it less volume and allowing you to push the tubes harder by raising the volume. Is there a way to do this on the triple rectifier?

C) Are there products that reduce the signal coming out of an amp so that you can crank the amps volume to push the tubes, yet drop the amount of volume coming from the amp using an outside device?

Sorry if these questions are stupid, but I want to make sure I do all the research I can before dropping a couple grand on an amp. Hopefully someone can give me some tips and advice.

Thanks a lot.

 

[ytse_jam]

hi, I don't want ruin your relation with that forum member but... if you play in small clubs I think the triple is way too much, since I suppose you're not using it for the clean channel, right? Yep, there are some sorts of attenutaors like THD hotplate that let you set a high volume level on the head (don't expect a 0.00% coloration of your tone though), I'm sure you'll find here many guys experienced with such devices.

 

[camsna]

A) Really R E A L L Y loud!

B) Yes. Pull outermost power tubes - 100 watts. Also pull the next outermost - 50 watts.

C) Yes. Lots of kinds of attenuators. They ALL color your tone - but DO help. And you burn through your tubes much more quickly.

 

[mackenziedeth]

A) Really R E A L L Y loud!

B) Yes. Pull outermost power tubes - 100 watts. Also pull the next outermost - 50 watts.

C) Yes. Lots of kinds of attenuators. They ALL color your tone - but DO help. And you burn through your tubes much more quickly.

Hm, yeah that's something I'm worried about. Would pulling tubes affect tone at all?

 

[ytse_jam]

I think you may have to pay attention to output impedance issues when pulling tubes... don't know if the nominal value is still the actual one also after having pulled the tubes

 

[camsna]

Pulling tubes hardly affects volume. Seriously. The volume diff between 50 and 150 watts is only, like, 6 dB. So pulling tubes MOSTLY affects tone. You get a bunch less headroom. So you'll breakup earlier. Which is great for ch. 2 and 3. You don't have to crank it AS loud (BUT STILL REALLY FREAKING LOUD) to get good breakup. But the same goes for the clean channel, too. It'll breakup sooner.

Not that this is a bad thing at all! Just a preference!

I ran my dual rectifier with only 2 tubes - 6V6s. That's, like, 25 watts. Still really loud, but much more manageable than a quad of 6L6s. But the clean channel disappeared. I ran another clean amp anyhow and used Ch. 1 of the DR for a pushed Marshall kind of sound.

 

[NoGlassNoClass]

A) Loud. It's manageable, but let's just say hope you have a hard-hitting drummer.

B) Don't do it. There is no way to get a correct impedance match between the output transformer and speakers. You can get close, and it probably won't hurt the amp, but it will never be right.

C) You might be able to get away with a THD HotPlate, but the Weber Mass is available in 150 and 200 watt models that may well work better for the Triple. ALL attenuators color your tone, and the more you attenuate the worse it gets.

Certainly tone is subjective, and only you can decide what you want to hear. IMO the whole beauty of the Triple is the massive headroom of the power section. Crank it to ear-shattering levels and it won't fall apart. Palm-muted chords go "thunk" not "thppffft".

Taming the fizz: Turn it up! Keep the Output at 11:00+ and control your volume with the Channel Masters. Keep the Loop Send at about 1:30 (even if nothing in the loop). You can get decent low(ish)-volume tones like this, but dont expect "bedroom level". Experiment with different preamp tubes. Boost with an overdrive pedal (hi vol/low gain), a clean-booster, or an EQ pedal (my fave). Speakers make a huge difference as well.

Take the time to play with the knobs. Too many people give up on this amp before exploring all the options. Is a 150 watt Recto too much? Of course it is...thats the whole point.

 

[mackenziedeth]

Pulling tubes hardly affects volume. Seriously. The volume diff between 50 and 150 watts is only, like, 6 dB. So pulling tubes MOSTLY affects tone. You get a bunch less headroom. So you'll breakup earlier. Which is great for ch. 2 and 3. You don't have to crank it AS loud (BUT STILL REALLY FREAKING LOUD) to get good breakup. But the same goes for the clean channel, too. It'll breakup sooner.

Not that this is a bad thing at all! Just a preference!

I ran my dual rectifier with only 2 tubes - 6V6s. That's, like, 25 watts. Still really loud, but much more manageable than a quad of 6L6s. But the clean channel disappeared. I ran another clean amp anyhow and used Ch. 1 of the DR for a pushed Marshall kind of sound.

I was actually just informed that if you pull power tubes from a triple rec you will damage your transformer, but with a dual rec it is possible to do so by pulling the center 2 tubes. Apparently it states this in the manual. I think I'm going to have to tell the user here that I can't buy his amp, which sucks because I know how it feels to almost close a deal, but this is more money than I can just drop on something wistfully.

 

[Ukalali Solo]

You can't pull tubes on a Trip Rec as far as I know due to some impedance issues (you can however on a Dual).

 

[camsna]

Eek. It seems I stand corrected. Don't pull any tubes!

 

[scottm]

mackenziedeth, i recommend you trying a dual and a triple before taking the plunge. i have owned both at the same time and could hear the difference between them even at bedroom levels. the triple to me is voiced more aggressively than the dual. this is because the triple has a 50% larger output transformer than the dual (150w vs 100w).

if you are worried about volume dont forget they both have a "spongy/bold" switch which drops the voltage inside the amp and drops it volume. they can also be tamed with the loop send and using tube rectifiers. then there are the 3rd party attenuators you could add on. good luck.

 

[mackenziedeth]

Thanks everyone for your input. I think for me, the dual rectifier would be the more sensible way to go. I hate to blindly buy an amp without trying one, but I live in a place with 1 mesa dealer and they only ever get stilletos and lone stars, so I'm going on reviews and clips and advice from others. 100 watts is more than enough for me, and the option with the dual rec to pull the middle tubes and bring it to 50 makes it even more versatile and sensible for myself. I also think that with the deal I believe I'll be getting, I won't be breaking the bank.

 

[manicsix]

Hey there,

A) On a triple rectifier, how high would I need to have the volume set to truly get the most out of the amp and the best sound from the tubes? I'll be using it for small club shows and the like.

Thanks a lot.

From what I read when I was researching into a buying a dual rec, you're probably not likely to hit the sweet spot using it for small club shows.

 

[eaeolian]

You're not really likely to hit the sweet spot for power amp distortion on a Dual for small club shows, either, unless you really want the soundman to hate you for being blisteringly loud.

The major difference isn't in volume, it's in headroom. I went with a Triple because I like a clean poweramp with preamp gain. My personal opinion is that the Triple is the best sounding of all of the current Recto series, however, so I'm probably a biased source.

Volume is an issue with either choice. You'll be able to get the Triple or Dual loud enough so that it "opens up" at club volumes, but it'll take halfway or better to get either to really shine.

 

[Elpelotero]

My advice would be to spend a couple of more weeks researching exactly what amp is best for you. There are many factors to consider other than what has been stated here and many more opinions. Just keep asking questions and reading.

As for my .02...

Single would be great for you b/c it's only 50w, but you lose the option to use el34's, pull tubes, and use Vacuum tube rectification.

Dual is best of both worlds, but you're not likely to hit the sweet spot for a club show. I don't and never seen anyone do it. Sweet spot is around 11:00. A typical club show hits about 9:00.

Triple is great for clean headroom and tightness on the gain, but you'll never hit the sweet spot and you can't pull tubes. When you hit the sweet spot though it's glorious.

You may also consider buying used...There are lots of great deals on older discontinued Mesa products, such as F series or 2 channel Rectifiers from the 90's (which have a slightly different tone).

 

[ibanez4life SZ!]

I think NoGlassNoClass and Eaeolian have the right idea here.

In all honesty, for the average club, non-pro player, all these high wattage tube amps, whether 100W or 150W, are way overkill. To get the sweet spot of these amps, you really have to be playing a stadium.

That is not to say we can't use them! :lol:

They still have AMAZING tonal characteristics at more moderate volumes....like practice with a hard hitting drummer. When I owned my Dual Rectifier, it always sounded great when I openned it up at practice. It sounded like it should.

As for the Triple, I wouldn't worry about the extra 50 watts. If you're a high gain player, that extra 50 watts is a godsend, as it gives you the headroom you need to keep a clearer low end and overall tone at the volume.

So, if those are the tonal variations you'd like to acheive, the triple is in no way overkill. As already said, that's the point! It keeps certain tonal characteristics for these reasons. If you like it, I say go for it!

 

[JW123]

A) Really R E A L L Y loud!

B) Yes. Pull outermost power tubes - 100 watts. Also pull the next outermost - 50 watts.

C) Yes. Lots of kinds of attenuators. They ALL color your tone - but DO help. And you burn through your tubes much more quickly.

Hm, yeah that's something I'm worried about. Would pulling tubes affect tone at all?

I have pulled mine down to 2 power tubes and 1 rectifier tube and it makes the amp sound real thin to me. To me when you do this you are killing the whole reason for having the amp in the first place. Hell just buy a Line 6 modeling amp or something like that if you are going to kill its tone anyway.

A Triple is to loud for general club use unless you are into death metal. It is very very loud.

On mine I have to get the master around 12 noon or 2 oclock for the power tubes to react like a tube amp should.

If you want a rectifier I would suggest a single rec for smaller venues.