Funny?....The older I get, the more I understand tone and..

[tele_jas]

Yep, the older I get the more I understand tone and what I like has changed some, but in some ways stayed the same.

I started my semi professional weekend warrior gigs at age 21 (13 yrs ago) and I had a Fender Deluxe Reverb and 2 Tubescreamres and a delay unit and a Jap Strat. I eventually got a a new multi FX pedal to use with the Deluxe and I used 15 different patches thoughout the night. I used that setup up until 2002/2003 where I went though a big amp phase to find "the perfect amp". I tried Solid state, Modeling, old tube amps and new tube amps and finally found and fell in love with Boogies and I've even went through several Boogies up until the Road King........ Did I mention that I was embarrassed of my Deluxe and 2 tubescreamer set up at the time?? All my friends had Marshall stacks or 4x12 with racks and racks of stuff and here I am with a 20+ yr old amp and two 10 yr old pedals.

Over the years, my band styles have changed from country and classic rock to 80s - modern rock with a touch of country (and an all original country band). When I started out with the Deluxe and 2 tubescreamers, I wanted more!!!!! More bass and more distortion so I got the peals. Then I wanted BETTER while keeping the MORE so I got new pedals. then I wanted BETTER & MORE in an amp, not a pedal. .........

Ok, ok.... I guess what I'm getting at is this... I've started to like my tone with less distortion, even my heavy stuff is milder than a year ago. My cleans are less muffled and my semi-distorted tones try to copy my old Tubescreamer/Deluxe tones. Heck, the other night I dug out my old Deluxe and 2 tubescreamers and played with it for about an hour and then plugged it in to my RK and did the same thing... PERFECTION at it's finest!! A great clean tube amp, a tubescreamer and a single coil guitar.. I had so much fun just enjoying the tone and not everything else that covers up the tone (distortion and FX). I could actually hear the Telecaster..... I could actually hear the Boogie..... I could actually hear the Speakers...... I could actually hear the Tubescreamer .... and how they all worked and blended together. It was all so perfect sounding and then my wife yelled "Turn that **** down".

Oh well, I had my fun and have totally come around to understanding why I like my tone and even if I don't like someone elses tone I can now really apprecieate it for what I hear in it.

But, sometimes it's just plane ole' fun to turn it up to 11 and get wild!!!

NOTE: No acid was taken during this expieriment and I didn't want to save the wales :wink:

PS.. My friends that had the big Marshall stacks and racks of gear now play small tube combo amps and sound better, IMO, now than back then. I even get some of my friends that made fun of my amp 13 yrs ago call me up and say "Hey man, you still got that old Deluxe, can I borrow it and a tubescreamer"? (I always say yes).

 

[nor]

'Aint it the truth!

After shopping the Bogners, Soldanos, Diesel, etc., I found I liked my MkIII just fine. My new Deuce takes care of the rest.

Hell, I'm looking forward to shopping for a boost for the Stiletto!
:lol:

The 32sp rack has been replaced with a 10sp - and thats mostly a handy place to store the rack crap I haven't unloaded yet.
:wink:

 

[axwielding1]

I HEAR YA BROTHER....
I find the same thing... I'm now going for a more vintage tone than what I originally got my Mark III for, and am finding all those tones are there...
Maybe the thieles are a little tight, but the tone is still there...I still have my old Gibson amp and TS9/808 to get smokin' though...
But it's true, as you get older, you begin to hear where all the tone is coming from. Speakers, tubes, amp, guitar, etc.
Maybe it's just enlightenment..Maybe we just start realizing what does what...
+1 for aging.......
ax. 8)

 

[tele_jas]

Whats even funnier is when we bring back an old song that I played in a different band and I think to myself that I played this with tons of distortion back then and when I listen back to it to re-learn it, it's almost clean or very little distortion. It's all just in how it was mixed and the power of the song makes you want to turn the gain up.

 

[strumminsix]

Cool write up! Here is an addition....

I mostly learned on acoustic guitar. Being on an acoustic you have a few thigns: constant tone, no distortion and full range. After I "went electric" I tried to get that same "full range" without even knowing it! It took me years until a friend asked, "you play alot of acoustic don't you". When I replied yes and he told me all about focusing the electric guitar to the midrange.

Well, this was night and day to me. From there I started tweaking and really listening and hearing the beauty of a guitar sitting properly in the mix since it is in the guitar register.

From there I started playing with modellors and getting an idea of what I like and what I don't like. It was at that time I realized I wanted 3 things: #1 beautiful cleans, #2 tremolo or vibrato #3 nice low gain.

I played with Fender TRRI and experienced major phase oscilation issues and realized that I couldn't keep it after 4 bad ones. So then I tried the LSC and wow! Had such a great tone and nice low gain I didn't even miss the tremolo.

Where was I going, oh ya tone... I agree and also I can listen better to my bandmates and find my spot in the mix since I practice so much going into rehearsals I don't think about me I listen to the mix.

 

[picnic]

This is the epiphany post thread, I guess. I have been playing since is was 13 in 65. I started out with tube amps, Fender Bandmaster , Ampeg Gemini IV with Vox Wahs, fuzz faces and Bosstones. Loudness and distortion ruled. In 1975, I sold the amps and a 68 Tele, stopped playing electric for 23 years. Just played acoustic guitars.

I got back into gigging electric by accident and bought a Peavey SS, then a PeaveySS modeler. Then I started jamming with some guys my age who all had Deluxes, Supers and Twins. Original amps from the 60's and 70's. GAS attack. Off to Guitar center to buy a DRRI. I bought the LSS 1x12 instead, then swapped that back for a TRRI and a TS9 and eventually wound with the LSC2x12.


Now, it's a Strat, a Tele and a LSC, just dial in tone and hope my chops can do the job. I have learned tons about tubes tones pups and other stuff I never realized was important to sounding good. Music and guitar have always been there for me. It's 2006, I have been playing 40+ years and I trying to sound like it was 1968 and I'm playing thru a Deluxe Reverb on 6.

 

[Red Barchetta]

tele_jas...

Boy...you hit the nail on the head. I went through all those types of phases too. I started on an acoustic in about 78 or so...went electric with a supercheezy Memphis electric and a Multivox amp...8" speaker, no reverb or o.d., .....but it had TREMELO!!!!

Went through some Peavey Combos, then in the mid 80's, briefly got into the over-processed rack-crap rig. Tried Gallien Kruger (cuz Alex of Rush used them)...didn't last long with them...Finally in 89, I went back to the basics...TUBES...got an 89 Fender "Evil" Twin....100 watts...all toooob....wooo!

But...I still did the multi-effects, over processed, too distorted....yada, yada, yada... Went through multi-effects by Boss (several of em) Yamaha, and Rocktron....The Rocktron stuff actually served me well, because it sounded more like my old vintage stompboxes....

Then, in Feb of 2003...I got my Road King...now its just me, my guitars, my RK, and a few selected effects....as transparent as I can get.

I have really gotten into the mindset of "if you want a particular sound...use the right guitar first". (just check out "My Guitars" in the guitar post section) All of my Overdrive comes from my RK....the effects I do use are very judiciously placed....not overdone at all. I could actually play a gig plugged straight into my RK...nothing else, and still sound 95% the same as I do normally.

As I have grown older...I think I have truly grown...I agree with you, jas...I can hear where the tone is coming from...I'm more into pure, honest tones than ever before....no tricks....just cool TONE, BABY!!


I have been shown the light...lemme have an "amen" brother Jas....


RB

 

[axwielding1]

Also, you just can't say anything against a true class A amp pushed into distortion... I really think that's where it's at... That Twin Reverb dimed and pushed with an overdrive... Or JTM45 through a TV cab pushed to 10 with a Lester...
That's where the tone lies... I'm getting back there myself... My first amp, a Princeton Reverb seemed sedate to me in high school, but pushing it hard was actually an awesome tone... Needless to say, it was traded for some solid state POS.. (fool!)
Someday, when the money/mood hits me right, I may just get that class A amp again. For now, I get alot of tones out of my mark III, and feel "feerless" when I plug into her.... :wink:
ax. 8)

 

[TheRazMeister]

I just picked up an NOS Crate VC508 5 watter and it's amazing the tones that come out of small tube combos. PS - the local music store was going out of business and had it for $75!!!!! (I feel like a thief )

 

[dual rec]

Man this stuff is great. By no means am I a veteran at this compared to you guys but in a sense I feel I will be the same way as I grow. I consider myself a tone fanatic, constnantly tweaking to get the perfect sound. The other guitar player I play with has a modeling amp, and he wants a mode four. He never touches his amp, it drives me insane. He is either over confident with his solid state tone or he doesn't understand that tone is the key. Like I said I am far from being as accomplished in tone as some of you may be, but I fell that I am a younger generation wanting the same thing.

 

[cnumb44]

This is a great thread. I was just telling Old Guy Bob today that I have been finding better and better tone on my LSC by turning down the gain on channel 2 and upping the mids and bass. I'm also finding that a lighter touch on the strings with the volume up makes a world of difference.

Its all about listening to the sound. I was reading a missive by an audio engineer a couple of days ago and he was talking about how the only way to record heavy distortion is to actually turn down the gain. I guess getting good distortion to tape is a pretty difficult process - I digress.

If you let the flavor of the notes come out, then shaping the amp around that sound becomes a matter of light touches on the EQ. I now realize that Randall Smith has known that all along and I am just now catching up to what he was thinking. Marshall's don't have that sensitivity - at least the 3 I've owned.

Keep up the posts...

 

[Red Barchetta]

Dual Rec...I think your head is in the right place. Regardless of how accomplished or not us older farts may be...you still have equal potential to be a tone nut.

The only thing I can say about your "constant tweaking" is that sometimes, I have found that once I get a good baseline tone on the amp, the less I fool with it the better.

I try to accomplish tonal variances by fingers alone....how hard or soft I fret or pick...where on the string I pick, etc.

Also, never overlook volume knob manipulations!

So much tone...so little time....

RB

 

[cpepper]

Acctually being around myself I am confident (or adventureous enough to leave the 100 watt head at home) last rehearsal I palyed a smokey into a 4X 12 (after that experience I have been drinking more tequila and using a paso as a guitar pick). If you haven't tried it I would highly recomend it if you like a zz top tone. They are a cigarette box with a speaker you can either use as a mini amp, a head (yes it drives a 4 X 12) or a distortion box. Plus it only costs 25 dollars US or 40 Canadian. (Oh yeah and no tone controls or volume you're guitar decides whether you pl,ay clean or dirty).

 

[Curly]

I started with a 12 watt Silvertone, and it's been all downhill since then.

but I know where you're coming from ... you were just lucky to get it right from the get go

 

[SabuJSE]

Lemme just add to the list of "experienced" tone seekers... I too have found that less is definitely more: Take out some effects, turn down the drive, tweak tone knobs for seasoning, actually use the volume knob on the guitar... such an amazing difference.

As opposed to my rig in the late eighties. I'm too embarrased to even discuss it

 

[TheRazMeister]

You mean like my Galien-Kruger 2100SEL 100 watt stereo head going thru a pair of 4x12......PA SPEAKER COLUMNS :lol:
(they actually didn't look too bad when they were right next to each other...but the sound...well, let's not go there!)

As opposed to my rig in the late eighties. I'm too embarrased to even discuss it

 

[tele_jas]

Heck, I had a GK-250ml and ran it through a 4x12 and it thumped!! I found some recordings a few years ago I did with it back in the early 90s and I was embarrassed as to how it sounded!! It sounded like cold, sterile stainless steel (for lack of better words) and I thought it rocked!!

That was my first "real" amp I bought with my own money right out of high school, I used that even when I got in my first country band in 1993. But the day before the first gig, I got two tubescreamers from my guitar teacher and called my Dad and he let me use the Deluxe for as long as I wanted. I hung on to the GK-250ml, but never played it again, and just recently sold it (in 2003) for $400 on Harmony Central to a big Iron Maiden fan.

 

[Bikedude]

BIG DITTO'S I've got all kinds of junk layin around the music room, and when this joy ride of mine began, I was pluggin in to a 64 Bassman Piggyback Cab. 2X12's, with a Fender Duo Sonic. I think I picked up a Mosrite Fuzz pedal, which I still have. But that was it, and thru all the years of Solid State this and Randall that, Line 6 Modelers, pedals and more crap than I can remember, I'm waay diggin my LSC with my Strat Plus with a little OCD to tickle the Ch1 a little bit. I put in a set of Kinman AvnBlues on the strat, and am currently puttin together a Hot Rod Affinity BSB Tele, and have a Zendrive on order, and I think I've found everything I have been looking for. The LSC just keeps gettin better and better. Dudes in my band don't seem to understand why I struggle with the weight of this amp, and why I need such a powerhouse, since we mike everything, but as soon as the tubes are warmed up and I hit the first chord on the strat, it's all justified, In my mind anyway.

 

[RR]

... My first amp, a Princeton Reverb seemed sedate to me in high school, but pushing it hard was actually an awesome tone... Needless to say, it was traded for some solid state POS.. (fool!)
Someday, when the money/mood hits me right, I may just get that class A amp again. ...

I hear you! My first amp was a '69 Fender Princeton (yours is even more of a collector's item w/ reverb). I regret ever since selling it to my brother's brother-in-law. That amp had rock 'n' roll written all over it. Play any 60's guitar licks, it sounded dead on. Running Class A dual 6V6s w/ a 5YA rectifier tube tone was sweet.

 

[tele_jas]

My mom picked up a Princeton Reverb amp in peices in a box at a yard sale for $15 about 14 years ago and gave it to me and said "I seen this and it had Fender on it and I thought you might want it or could use some parts" I started putting it together and it was the entire amp (minus the speaker)!!!! I was stupid and sold the Princeton off to help get my first Boogie.

No it wasn't stupid I sold it for the Boogie, but it was for sentimental reasons (my mom passed away a couple years later). I wish I still had that amp!! But on the other hand, it got me in to Boogies..... so I can still thank her for that, without her I may not have been able to get one. It went for $900 on ebay, I guess it was worth more than I thought?!?!