Full C90 Recto Cab, what's your opinion?

[JCDenton6]

I've really been thinking of going full C90 in my recto cab, don't get me wrong I like the V30/C90 mix but I hear that C90's are best with a recto from most folks over at SS.org.
I wanted some thought on the subject at hand... :?

 

[fluff191]

And would you be using a Rectifier with said cab? I can't help but think the loss in the low end would not be super great.

 

[JCDenton6]

And would you be using a Rectifier with said cab? I can't help but think the loss in the low end would not be super great.

Yes, I will be running my 2ch triple through it. I'd really like to plug into a full C90 cab before I pull the trigger though, you got me thinking about that now.

I recall konstantine RK having a full C90 cab but he didn't go into details about it, he hasn't been on in quite a while, hope all is well with him.

Thanks again for the insight Fluff.

 

[fluff191]

Ya know what you could do is flip your 4x12 speakers (or just switch the wires) so the C90's are on one side and then plug into one stereo side. So it would basically be a 2x12 with C90's and you could get an idea of what it sounds like. Just a thought.

 

[screamingdaisy]

Ya know what you could do is flip your 4x12 speakers (or just switch the wires) so the C90's are on one side and then plug into one stereo side. So it would basically be a 2x12 with C90's and you could get an idea of what it sounds like. Just a thought.

That would be my recommendation.

I have a bunch of C90 cabs and personally I hate them with the Recto. They're alright with vintage high gain but they suck the life out of modern high gain (the C90 low mid chunk works well with vintage, but the loss of the V30 upper mid punch takes the aggression out of modern and makes the channel sound even more scooped).

They work well when mixed as they essentially "fatten" up V30s, but when you totally remove the V30s from the equation you're not fattening up anything... they're your sole source of sound, and that sound now lacks the V30 punch and aggression.

Beyond that, I would be really curious to know how many folks on SS.org have actually run this setup vs how many are being sheep and following the crowd in terms of their comments? I ask because it's not a common setup, but by the OPs comment you'd think everyone was doing it.

 

[YellowJacket]

v30 + c90 is best for a recto.

 

[JCDenton6]

Very true guys, I would've tried Fluff's suggestion, but the speakers are in an "X" pattern
You all pretty much hit the nail on the head with the pro and cons of going full C90, V30/C90 combo is staying! I guess I bought into the hyperbole over at SS.org in the past.
I'm gonna trust my instincts more often :lol:

I was thinking I was going to be heading down the wrong path with a full C90 cab, just needed a few opinions before hand.
A big thanks to you guys for the insight, I value your prior experience :wink:

 

[YellowJacket]

Ya, v30 / c90 is rad. I'm sure that there is a clip comparing c90s with v30s somewhere on the forum. I believe Screamingdaisy posted it originally?

 

[jeffp]

I`d like to hear the clips comparing the two.Can anyone come up with a graph of a C90?.......that we could compare with the V30 graph?..can`t find anything!........jeffp

 

[J.J]

I have compared the graphs, but they give very little indication of how different the speakers really are. The Celestion lead 80 is the closest data you will find the the C90.

 

[94Tremoverb]

Subjective descriptions are really the only way to go on speakers unfortunately.

The frequency response graphs are almost completely meaningless for telling what a speaker actually sounds like. They all basically look similar, and the fine detail of the ups and downs you see on the chart is not important, but stuff that isn't represented (eg distortion and combination overtones when more than one frequency is played at the same time... ie like a guitar signal) is, very much.

The Classic Lead doesn't sound the same as the C90 either - it's cleaner and slightly edgier sounding, not as thick and chunky.

 

[jeffp]

id still like to check out the graphs just to know if anybody has a link or something

 

[screamingdaisy]

id still like to check out the graphs just to know if anybody has a link or something

The C90 doesn't sound exactly like the Classic Lead, but it's the closest I can get for you. Mostly I'm just posting it to show how difficult it is to pull anything useful out of a speaker response graph.

V30

Classic Lead

 

[jeffp]

mmmmm......

 

[kdorsey]

I hate to throw this question in on a Recto thread, but the discussion is spot on. What about with a Mark series amp? Do those that play thru both feel the same cab characteristics exist under these conditions? I switched my 2x12 HB cabs to all C90s a couple of years ago away from the C90/EVs that were stock. The high end was piercing and the lows were big but a bit flubby. Now, it's very balanced but the mid-low/lows are a bit lacking. Should I consider popping a V30 in the bottom?

 

[YellowJacket]

Mark and Recto heads both have their own unique signature tone. You never see recto cabs / combos loaded with c90s stock but you do see the Mark series amps loaded with c90s stock.

There was a thread somewhere comparing v30s to c90s. I don't think a v30 will give you more bass and low mids. It will give you more midrange, more crunch, and it will smooth out the high mid scoop nature of the c90. Listen to Haggerty's video of the v30 vs c90 for the Mark V. http://www.youtube.com/user/haggertysmusic#p/u/15/3lJYmOKC4h0
This should be immensely helpful for you.

AND:

http://www.youtube.com/user/haggertysmusic#p/u/2/xnJGAEyodHE

2 v30s (rectifier 2 x 12) vs v30 + c90. (road king 2 x 12)

He uses the Mark V for the demo.

SWEET!

 

[kdorsey]

Thanks for mentioning those videos...great stuff from Haggerty's and they are a good side-by-side comparison of the two speakers. I hadn't seen the Recto and RK comparison before, so that was definitely good info. I guess the intent of my question was to probe these owners of both Rectos and Marks about how these cabs, with specific speaker selection, responds to the voicing differences between the amps. I realize that they both have unique signatures...that's why we own both. :wink: But, to me, it seems like the Recto series amps really shine with the V30-only cabs and the Marks respond well with the C90s. And you Recto guys discuss this topic more than the Mark guys do! I'm trying to establish a baseline so I can translate.

The biggest pitfall of GAS is that you're always pursuing a nebulous tone...even if you already have THE tone. I don't need to buy V30s to conduct a test, but I just can't help myself!! Muahahaha!!!! (my wife's gonna kill me)

 

[screamingdaisy]

Thanks for mentioning those videos...great stuff from Haggerty's and they are a good side-by-side comparison of the two speakers. I hadn't seen the Recto and RK comparison before, so that was definitely good info. I guess the intent of my question was to probe these owners of both Rectos and Marks about how these cabs, with specific speaker selection, responds to the voicing differences between the amps. I realize that they both have unique signatures...that's why we own both. :wink: But, to me, it seems like the Recto series amps really shine with the V30-only cabs and the Marks respond well with the C90s. And you Recto guys discuss this topic more than the Mark guys do! I'm trying to establish a baseline so I can translate.

Most of the dudes I've see rock Boogies for the jazz/blues/roots rock tone tend to lean towards the Altecs, EVM-12Ls, MS-12s, C90s, etc.

Most of the dudes I've seen rock Boogies for hard rock and heavy metal have tended to favour Marshall cabs, right up until Mesa released the Recto Standard and Traditional cabs.

This is obviously a generalization, and there's obviously some crossover in terms of taste... but this is what I've noticed over time of reading up on various artists and their gear choices.

Beyond that, I feel (but could be wrong) that Mesa tends to issue the Mark with a C90 because the open back combo versions are more marketed towards people who want to use the Mark for it's big, bold clean sound in conjunction with it's smooth, sustain for days lead tone... whereas the aggressive player who's going to use the lead channel for high gain rhythm will more likely grab the head and a closed back cab.... which all come with Vintage 30s.

Or I could be over thinking things and they simply issue the Mark combos with a C90 because the V30 is only 60 watts.

 

[ifailedshapes]

And would you be using a Rectifier with said cab? I can't help but think the loss in the low end would not be super great.

Yes, I will be running my 2ch triple through it. I'd really like to plug into a full C90 cab before I pull the trigger though, you got me thinking about that now.

I recall konstantine RK having a full C90 cab but he didn't go into details about it, he hasn't been on in quite a while, hope all is well with him.

Thanks again for the insight Fluff.

http://forum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=42325&p=381818#p381818 - scroll down to the last post. It's sad when this stuff happens.

 

[YellowJacket]

http://forum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=42325&p=381818#p381818 - scroll down to the last post. It's sad when this stuff happens.

Damn!!!

Heartbreaking.