Ext cab for F-30 Combo - Recto vs Thiele?

[dudleydawson]

Hello all. New to the board so excuse me if this has been discussed elsewhere and i didn't see it...

i've been wanting an extension cab to work with my F30 combo - does anyone have experience using either a mesa recto 1x12 (with a V30), or a theile cab 1x12 (with a C90) with their combo?

i've seen posts similar - but i got the impression it was in regards to the F30 head. i usually play with all three channels (if you count contour as a channel) - and i get a lot of use of a TS9 and a TS808 to push the gain over the top... i love the sounds i get out of the V30 in the combo - i just want the ability to push more air and get that 'i'm standing in front of a stack' feeling once in awhile.

thoughts? input?
anything? thanks...

 

[dudleydawson]

ok... so scanning through i did find some advice on this on another thread -
but here's my confession - i already have the recto 1x12 - got a great price on it many moons ago and couldn't pass it up.
it just isn't really doing it for me - and i'm not sure whether i should pursue the thiele, which people seem to like - or if it won't make that much of a difference and i should just shutup and play my combo.

when i was in a band - i would plug in the cab for a week or two - then end up unplugging it because it wasn't really making things open up the way i thought they would - my best 'huge sound' results were miking the combo through our PA and adding a little more mid/low end. so for a few years now - the cab has been used as a very expensive amp stand!

anyways - now i play in my basement while the children sleep - and once every few weeks i get to crank it up the way it's meant to be cranked.
i've been trying to incorporate the cab into my sound... as much as i fiddle - i am relatively uninspired... the setup just just doesn't seem to 'sing' like i want it too - so i'm trying to decide if i should try something else or continue to use my expensive amp stand.

does it sound like this may be a result of splitting the signal and not pushing the speakers as hard as i would if there were just one?

i'm very good and tinkering with tone controls and settings to get great sounds - but my speaker knowledge is pretty limited... obviously...
i can almost always get the sounds i want - but i don't always know how they got that way!

 

[GD_NC]

I'm a big Thiele fan. They are a great complement to a combo. Will give you a nice full sound and improve the bottom end. I have an old pre-recto Mesa closed back 1x12 compact cab. It sounds like poo compaired to a Thiele.

 

[dudleydawson]

thanks for your reply...

ok - so in your case - what's the difference between the 'poo' cab and the thiele?

is the front port a big part of the sound?

if so - i'm pretty handy - and i'm thinking i could modify my recto cab - reconfigure the front to have a port (it's only 1/8" narrower than the thiele) - or just make it a 1/2 or 3/4 back if it would have the same effect....

 

[GD_NC]

thanks for your reply...

ok - so in your case - what's the difference between the 'poo' cab and the thiele?

is the front port a big part of the sound?

if so - i'm pretty handy - and i'm thinking i could modify my recto cab - reconfigure the front to have a port (it's only 1/8" narrower than the thiele) - or just make it a 1/2 or 3/4 back if it would have the same effect....

My Thiele is a custom job I built using the EV specs. The Mesa version is similar but slightly has different dimensions. Yes it's ported on the front and it a good bit deeper than a standard compact cab. I'm not sure it would be a good plan to modify a recto cab with a port. I think you be better just putting it on ebay and picking up a used Thiele. If you are really handy, there is a thread on the board somewhere showing you how to build one.

The "poo" cab is a standard Mesa compact cab which was offered for a while in the 80's as a "convertible". Meaning it has a second piece of plywood added to cover open part of the back. Not long after they introduced the larger 1x12 Recto cab and stopped offering the Convertible. I don't care for mine with the back on. However, it sounds great as a standard half-back.

 

[xrisj]

I've used both with my combo, and these days am back to just using my combo alone. I found that the extra speaker makes a nice difference, but in the end it's not enough sugar to haul and set up another cab. I know, I'm lazy! But that's what combos bring to the table - they're easy to haul around. I really do think the F-30 gives great sound just as it is.

Anyways, as to your post, I find the recto to be more "open" then the thiele, the latter being to boomy. The F-30 has a lot of natural compression/sag built in - too much low freq can get tubby quickly. The focused low end of the thiele is not as versatile to me when paired with the F-30, but your tastes will vary. I should point out that the thiele had a 200 evm12l in it, so it wasn't an apples to apples comparison as the recto was a V30. If you're looking for a box-2-box eval, best to load the same speaker in both and try it yourself. recording them will help to do a critical listening session. Once you've done that, just play what sounds good and works for you.

I've found that using a plexiglass screen in front of my combo cuts the high mids, and allows more of the natural low end to fill the stage. Also, if you mic alot, you'll find that sound men usually change the sound of the amp anyways - difficult to control the exact FOH tone. That's why I insist on the same mic for every show. It's no guarantee, but it helps to limit the variables for FOH. I use an SM57 with amp clamps (http://www.ampclamps.com) for every cabinet, making it harder to screw up for any sound man.

Are you getting to play your F-30 opened up? There is a big difference in this amp when it'*****'s 9-10 oclock on the master. When pairing speakers, it's critical for me that I get to really listen at working volumes.

 

[dudleydawson]

thanks for the input guys... i sold my cab on craiglist in less than 24 hours and got $50 more than i asked for!

a store near here has a 3/4 back 1x12 that i'm going to go try out when i get a chance... haven't found a thiele for sale anywhere in this half of my state!

 

[andershoeg]

Hi there.
I've got the F30 combo as well. And it's standing on top of my MB Thiele C90 1x12". I can promise you, it's a great combination! Gives SO much more to the overall sound. Not that it's bad with just the combo. But its a lot fuller, and the bottom end is extended big time! I also have the 2x12" 3/4-back cab. Nice as well, but the greatest setup is definitely the f30/thiele-combination. And it looks good as well small stack, huge sounding! (would have posted an image of the setup, but apparently photobucket is down for maintenance right now...)
b.r. andershoeg

 

[dudleydawson]

ok- andershoeg - here's my last question then -
what kind of music do you play - and what kind of music do you think works best with the theile?

i'm finding that i prefer the open cab sound - but still want more bass presence.
i generally play with a lot of mids and split my time between clean channel w overdrives and the dirty channels. don't do a lot of harddriving chuga-chugga stuff. and i don't get to play at very loud volumes (>10 o'clock) much these days...

i think i'll like the openness of the 3/4 back plus the low end... i like that the cab is bigger too...
that's why i'm still thinking i might prefer the 3/4 back vs the thiele.
still no success trying to find one locally so that i can try them both!

did you get my PM?

 

[andershoeg]

Hi again (pm sent, dudley).
I play alot of different styles. All from 80's pop, over modern pop-rock, to metal. I think the setup does it all very well. In a metal-band-situation, the F30 + Thiele isn't enough. At least not for me. But for the other styles it's a pleasure to play. Volume-wise I get it cranked enough to really get the powertubes cooking. About noon for the master.
What works best for this little setup is, in my opinion, the pop-rock/rock'n roll thing. You know, U2 vertigo, Lenny Kravitz are you gonna go my way, asf. Not chugga-chugga becomes too muddy I think. Not that you can't play metal with this setup. But you ask what works best for this setup, and I think thats the straight ahead pop-rock/rock'n roll type of music. I'm not a experienced jazz-player or anything, so can't comment on that.
b.r. andershoeg

 

[giorikas81]

I've used both with my combo, and these days am back to just using my combo alone. I found that the extra speaker makes a nice difference, but in the end it's not enough sugar to haul and set up another cab. I know, I'm lazy! But that's what combos bring to the table - they're easy to haul around. I really do think the F-30 gives great sound just as it is.

Anyways, as to your post, I find the recto to be more "open" then the thiele, the latter being to boomy. The F-30 has a lot of natural compression/sag built in - too much low freq can get tubby quickly. The focused low end of the thiele is not as versatile to me when paired with the F-30, but your tastes will vary. I should point out that the thiele had a 200 evm12l in it, so it wasn't an apples to apples comparison as the recto was a V30. If you're looking for a box-2-box eval, best to load the same speaker in both and try it yourself. recording them will help to do a critical listening session. Once you've done that, just play what sounds good and works for you.

I've found that using a plexiglass screen in front of my combo cuts the high mids, and allows more of the natural low end to fill the stage. Also, if you mic alot, you'll find that sound men usually change the sound of the amp anyways - difficult to control the exact FOH tone. That's why I insist on the same mic for every show. It's no guarantee, but it helps to limit the variables for FOH. I use an SM57 with amp clamps (http://www.ampclamps.com) for every cabinet, making it harder to screw up for any sound man.

Are you getting to play your F-30 opened up? There is a big difference in this amp when it'*****'s 9-10 oclock on the master. When pairing speakers, it's critical for me that I get to really listen at working volumes.

I've been thinking of adding a 1x12 cab mainly for portability/stand/sound improvement beacause we do some unmiced gigs lately. I was also thinking of the ENGL ported V30 cab...did you find the V30 cab expanding, bass or treble?
Andershoeg used the thiele but it had the c90 which is different.
Hey andershoeg I recently loaned it to a band that played master of puppets on contour and loved it as an audience but it is my amp and I am biased!!! fixed biased actually :lol: But new metal big band brighty power cords could use a recto. Stoner rock and load-metallica sounds are GREAT with the f-30. Check this out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOoGh7zwULY !!!

Also check this guy out...I only recently managed to come close to his sound.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wklhChfvvbE&feature=channel although it kinda falls in the muddy department I guess.

Hey xrisj you had the markIIC+, IIB and studio preamp? I only have the studio pre, and occasionaly "dream" about the mark IIC+. How did those two compare? Are you "satisfied" with the f-30? How did you come to this? The f-preamp never ceases to amaze me, it seems as every movement is unique sound. The eq is in the middle of distortion post to the first distortion but pre to before the lot of gain comes. Weird actually. Actually the best sound character I like about my studio preamp the f-preamp does it fatter in the gain department, but the studio preamp kills in the clean department...and does a tighter yet smoother and harmonically rich thrash sound imitation.

 

[andershoeg]

"Hey andershoeg I recently loaned it to a band that played master of puppets on contour and loved it as an audience but it is my amp and I am biased!!! fixed biased actually :lol: But new metal big band brighty power cords could use a recto. Stoner rock and load-metallica sounds are GREAT with the f-30. Check this out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOoGh7zwULY !!!"

Hi giorikas81!
I didn't say the F30 can't play metal! :wink: It can play metal just fine! (I know you've already heard my clips elsewhere, some of them metal'ish sounding)
But asked what I think it does BEST, I still think it's the before mentioned styles. If I want really want to play metal with a band, I'll grab my Single recto. That's what it's made for 8)
b.r. andershoeg

 

[giorikas81]

Yeah I know man! I also played a single recto combo live but did not spend much time with it actually. For heavi-eeeer styles the recto is great but I tend to the petrucci style fast rythm part from your clips and it is kinda of different voicing! Still both amps are great and allow you to perform different styles (actually I was pleasantly amazed with the rectifiers clean/rock capabilities).

 

[dudleydawson]

update if anyone cares -
i had the chance to try out the 3/4 back 1x12 cab... shout out to the great great house of guitars - the only store in western new york which had a mesa 1x12 in stock! everyone else told me 1x12s are special order only...
i brought my guitar and F-30 into one of their back rooms - cranked it up for awhile and tweaked my settings - then plugged in the cab and experienced bliss! no need to wait to try a thiele - i loved the fullness and huge low-mid and bass sound i got out of the two together... and the C90/V30 combination really sounds fantastic...

the 3/4 back sounded much fuller than i was expecting... love it. whole new dimension to the F-30.

of course now - wouldn't you know it - someone on craigslist is selling 2 great looking evm theiles right in town!
but no 2nd guessing for me - this setup is sick and i love it!

 

[andershoeg]

Congrats dudleydawson!
Glad you got what you was looking for.
Enjoy!
b.r. andershoeg

 

[giorikas81]

Hey congrats man!!! Newer thieles also have the c90! If you can sometimes try them too