Express 5:50 I can't get enough power

[Cuistre]

hello

I'm French and I just bought a fantastic Mesa 5:50 combo amp and I'm a little bit disapppointed about his power... I mean during last rehearsal with my band, I had to get the Master Volume on every channel and modes to about 10:00-11:00 in 50w mode to be heard while the other guitarist played at 10:00-11:00 but he plays a 15w Fender Blues Junior !!!
Before the 5:50, I played a 30w class A V3112 Crate amp and I think it was louder than my new Mesa. I had to get the volume to only 8:30-9:00 to be heard with my Crate.
So I'd like to know if is it normal, if Class A mode has to do with that problem, because my Crate is a Class A and maybe it is louder than A/B mode.... I only know that the volume to 12:00 on the 5:50 was too loud, but It seems to me very far on the way of the master volume for a 50w, so maybe there's an electronical problem, don't you think?
What do you think about that? at which volume do you play your Mesa to be comfortably heard without burying the other guys of your band?
Sorry for my bad english... Hope you'll understand!!
Thanks!

 

[Don]

I think it has something to do with the speaker.

I tried my 5:50 with an Eminence Red Coat Tonker in it with my band last week and it was much louder and brighter than with the stock C90 (a lot heavier too!).

I used it this week with the stock speaker in it and found that I had to turn the masters ups considerably as well as tweaking the TMB controls.

Or it could just be the taper of the volume controls. A bandmate's Peavey Valveking 112 is louder set at 8:30 than my 5:50 is at 10:00-11:00. Maybe they'd be more equal at higher settings? He and I should compare.

 

[jdurso]

hello

I'm French and I just bought a fantastic Mesa 5:50 combo amp and I'm a little bit disapppointed about his power... I mean during last rehearsal with my band, I had to get the Master Volume on every channel and modes to about 10:00-11:00 in 50w mode to be heard while the other guitarist played at 10:00-11:00 but he plays a 15w Fender Blues Junior !!!
Before the 5:50, I played a 30w class A V3112 Crate amp and I think it was louder than my new Mesa. I had to get the volume to only 8:30-9:00 to be heard with my Crate.
So I'd like to know if is it normal, if Class A mode has to do with that problem, because my Crate is a Class A and maybe it is louder than A/B mode.... I only know that the volume to 12:00 on the 5:50 was too loud, but It seems to me very far on the way of the master volume for a 50w, so maybe there's an electronical problem, don't you think?
What do you think about that? at which volume do you play your Mesa to be comfortably heard without burying the other guys of your band?
Sorry for my bad english... Hope you'll understand!!
Thanks!

look into a theile with an EV in it.... your basically not pushing enough air and since the 5:50 is an open back your lossing volume to the back of the cab.... the EVs have some of the best throw out there from what i hear and just the fact if you're pushing 2 12" speakers should help with your volume issues.... another route to do without an extension speaker or with one, is a clean boost so you can set up your masters where the amp sounds good and the clean boost will offer you enough volume boost to get you at the right band volumes

also on a side note i've found some mesa amps (particular rectos) have a little darker sound to them which lends itself to not cutting in band situations which for me is fine because im a rhythm player.....also dont be afraid to turn up the amp a little higher than you have it..... to me a bands sound is about the mix and depending on what part you play in the band determines the voice and volume of your amp.... set the mix by getting the bass player evenly mixed with the drums... then get the rhythms guitars evenly mixed and lastly the lead guitars and vocals should be slightly more present..... a band practice is hard to gauge how your amp sounds say 20-30 feet away from the amp... in which case if all else fails get a monitor for yourself or elevate your combo closer to ear levels... its amazing how just elevating your amp makes things seem louder... also they sell the combo stands that tilt your combo up towards you... cheap way to remedy the problem too

 

[creekhed]

I have owned my 5:50 1X12 for 2 mos now and I noticed THE EXACT SAME THING!
So...I went out and got a 1X12 Cab to put beneath it to get a 2X12 sound...
SAME RESULT...but not as extreme as it was louder, just not A LOT louder.
I have come to the conclusion that it's the nature of the beast because I played through another that was the same.
I DID get a BB PLUS to put in front of it and use the one of the BB's channels as a Clean Boost with just a hint of OD... the result was very nice indeed!
Without the BB I had to run the Volume at about 2:00 and the Drive at about 1:100 to get any SERIOUS volume out of the Express...Weird. The BB does help out in this regard but I still have to crank her up pretty good to get it singing though (in FULL ON BAND mode of course). When I practice it is PLENTY LOUD way down low.
The Speaker comment was interesting. I was thinking of throwing Vintage 30's in it and the cab, but alas I am broke at the moment...hahahaaa
Bottom Line for me... It's plenty loud with the cab even if I do have to crank it up a bit...hell, that lets the Tubes do their thing anyway right?
BTW- Ya gotta check out the BB plus...I run the Reg BB channel as a cleanISH boost and it sounds great...AND... I run the 2nd channel (the one with the EQ) as an OD and when I use BOTH channels simultaniously the result is AWESOME. In fact, I stopped using CH2 on the Amp for the most part. Go figure.

 

[jdurso]

I have owned my 5:50 1X12 for 2 mos now and I noticed THE EXACT SAME THING!
So...I went out and got a 1X12 Cab to put beneath it to get a 2X12 sound...
SAME RESULT...but not as extreme as it was louder, just not A LOT louder.
I have come to the conclusion that it's the nature of the beast because I played through another that was the same.
I DID get a BB PLUS to put in front of it and use the one of the BB's channels as a Clean Boost with just a hint of OD... the result was very nice indeed!
Without the BB I had to run the Volume at about 2:00 and the Drive at about 1:100 to get any SERIOUS volume out of the Express...Weird. The BB does help out in this regard but I still have to crank her up pretty good to get it singing though (in FULL ON BAND mode of course). When I practice it is PLENTY LOUD way down low.
The Speaker comment was interesting. I was thinking of throwing Vintage 30's in it and the cab, but alas I am broke at the moment...hahahaaa
Bottom Line for me... It's plenty loud with the cab even if I do have to crank it up a bit...hell, that lets the Tubes do their thing anyway right?
BTW- Ya gotta check out the BB plus...I run the Reg BB channel as a cleanISH boost and it sounds great...AND... I run the 2nd channel (the one with the EQ) as an OD and when I use BOTH channels simultaniously the result is AWESOME. In fact, I stopped using CH2 on the Amp for the most part. Go figure.

interesting the 2nd cab didnt add that much..... what kinda cab was it? you guys might wnat to check out the freda live cabs..... the 1x12 rivals a 2x12 in volume because its front vented instead of open back...... worth looking into as an extension..... i just have a hard time believing that a 50 watt amp cant get lourd enough with a band.... i used a ROV for a while in my last band and it was plunty loud

 

[Cuistre]

Hey guys, thanks for your answers and help!
I have to say that my band and I play very loud even in rehearsals!
I mean I was just astonished that I had to crank the volume so high to cut through the mix. I don't say that this amp ain't loud, I just mean I thought that a 50w Mesa would have ruled in the mix at maxi 9:00 of the master, which would let a large way to go even louder if needed.
So you think that substitute the stock speaker for another one would change things? Which speaker should I choose then according to you?
I can't buy a 2x12' cab, first because I can't afford it and because it is already difficult for me to carry my amp from the 3rd floor without elevator!
BTW, I remember my 60w Peavey 5150 that was f***ing loud, thanks to his 2x12' speakers and closed back! You only could play it at maximum 9:00 in rehearsal because further covered the drummer!

 

[breogan]

You should seriously consider lowering the rehearsal volume. Otherwise you'll be deaf pretty soon. :?

 

[JAZZGEAR]

You should seriously consider lowering the rehearsal volume. Otherwise you'll be deaf pretty soon. :?

+1 :idea:

 

[Cuistre]

Don't worry for me guys, I'm experienced! :lol:
I always play with earplugs specially made for music.

 

[creekhed]

The Amp is plenty loud...it's just that I have to crank her up pretty good (2:00) to get it LOUD. I use a 1X12 MESA WIDEBODY (HIGHLY RECOMMEND THIS!!!!) to fill 0ut the sound but I still have to crank her up pretty good.
The Fender Twin Reverb I used to play I only had to put at about 9:00 to crank...but thats just how fender made the amp...all of the volume is in the 1st part of the dial. Mesa has a different approach to the Express whereas you have to crank her up to get to the Fender's volume...but it DOES get there. Don't worry about HOW FAR you have to twist the dial...it's just the design.
PLENTY LOUD.
TRY the BB Plus... AWESOME.

 

[Cuistre]

Yes Creekhed, I also think that it's the amp that is made like that.
And If we think about it, it would be more normal than an amp becoming very loud at only 9:00, this is not very progressive and we'd never crank it up further because what would it do at 1:00-2:00? You'd become instantly deaf? :lol:
What is BB? Do you have a link to a website? Thanks!

 

[tiktok]

The usual Mesa scenario is "My amp is so loud, I hardly ever turn up beyond '3' on the master volume..." Either something is way different with your amp, or that design, or your band is crazy loud. Do you guys play out at that volume without the soundguy throwing a fit? My Subway Rocket is painful at '5', and it's only packing 20W.

 

[creekhed]

Here's a link to the BB plus demo on youtube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKdjQsGD754

The 5:50 is not that loud on the lower end of the dial...till you really get it past about 1:00 with the drive at about 1:00 also... that's on the Cleanest setting.

Check out the BB plus...maybe the finest OD or distortion pedal I have ever owned, and I have owned most over time (TS9Keeley,MXR Distortion II and +, etc etc...) It's TRANSPARENT and the "clean Boost" I get from it's 2nd channel is sickness! That combined with my 5:50 on clean channel is a blessing, and when adding a OD boost from it's 1st channel the result is creamy butter! Lovin' it!
A GREAT improvement over the original Xotic BB preamp. At $250 it aint cheap...but you get what you pay for... just like Mesa Boogie Amps, they cost more but are worth every penny.

 

[creekhed]

Not to get off topic here but I actually use the BB Plus the OPPOSITE of the guy in the youtube clip. He uses Channel B as his main channel and uses Ch A for the distortion...I go about it the opposite way as CH A is not as hot and adding CHb to get dirt works muuuuch nicer. jmho...

I got interested in the BB after watching Andy Timmons demo of his BB Preamp (NOT THE NEW BB PLUS) in conjunction with his Mesa Amps!
Clip Here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiW22O914Cg

 

[Room3]

Silly question, but if you have to turn the volume knob up further does that mean extra wear and tear on the amp and tubes?

 

[creekhed]

Well I played another gig with the 5:50 on Saturday and had to crank the hell out of it again!!!
Was not happy to say the least.
My solution? I returned the 5:50 to GC and bought a 100Watt Lonestar 2X12!!!
...then...I played the 1st gig with it yesterday... PROBLEM SOLVED!!!!

...bonus: The Lonestar SOUNDS AMAZING!!!!
Night and day I tell ya...night and day!
also, the LS tone is FAR SUPERIOR to the 5:50.
Worth ANOTHER $700? You bet your *** it was! hahahaaaaa

Bottom Line: If your playing in a "not too loud" band that plays smaller venues the Express is still a great choice, but if you're playing larger venues and need TOP NOTCH PRO amplification the choice is clear...CRYSTAL clear.

 

[MrMason]

also, the LS tone is FAR SUPERIOR to the 5:50.

I think that's all subjective...I'm still waiting on my 5:50, but I played the floor model side by side with both the Lonestar custom and Lonestar (several different size combos of each), and they sounded awesome for certain sounds, but I found the 5:50 to have more that I liked. I've never played it at stage volume, but it kind of makes me feel good that it doesn't get obnoxiously loud...most amps are way too loud. I'd rather have something that's loud enough feel some air, but not TOO loud. I have no problem mic'ing an amp, and would much rather have my amp at it's optimum volume than have to turn down and castrate the tone. The LS DOES have some amazing sounds, I just preferred the 5:50 from what I heard.

 

[richt]

I agree that tone is just a subjective thing, so those comments can be taken with the proverbial grain of salt. That said, I've had my 5:50 for over a year now and it continues to make me smile.
I have played numerous gigs with mine, and have never had the Channel Master Volumes above 10 O'Clock. This is in a band with 2 electric guitars, an acoustic guitar and a keyboard (with bass and drums, of course). This is playing clean tones (the reason that I got the amp) along with a rhythm crunch tone (pedal) and 2 lead tones (1 pedal, the other is Ch 2 Blues mode on the 5:50). This band puts out a lot of volume, but the amp keeps up. I do second the notion of miking your amp, because if the venue is serious, they will set-up the sound properly and that involves keeping stage volumes lower and providing a good monitor mix to the band and a good Front of House mix to the audience.

Cheers,

Richt

 

[Anonymous]

I bet it is a preamp tube issue.

I own 4 ACE's and two of them had exactly this symptoms.

one ACE alone is OK, but compared with another, the amp just produced half of the output! which is already LOUD 8)

checking the preamp tubes the middle one of the five in the preamp section had some malfunction. after putting a new tube in, the loudness topic was fine.

I also found mismatched (grey, blue, red) power tubes EL34 in the amps. maybe you want to check that as well.

but as others already said, MESA is loud and powerful - always.

 

[Cuistre]

I noticed that I have to turn up the gain knob to add some volume in order the amp to be loud enough (at 12:00), but it makes the clean sounds a little bit dirty especially with high output humbuckers like my LP Classic has, so we can't really talk of nice pure clean sounds... what about you?