Express 5:25 or 5:50

[yardbird mac]

I'm thinking about getting a smaller/lighter amp for grab & go situations. I'm really liking the sound I'm getting out of my FENDER Pro Tube Pro Reverb, but it weighs in at almost 80lb. I own a BUDDA SD II -18 that I'm wanting to jettison, but if I get rid of the BUDDA, that will leave me high and dry without a lighter weight amp for practice or "jamming" purposes.

Since I have gotten my PTPR "dialed in", I'm not liking the EL 84 sound of the BUDDA circuit, and I'm leaning more toward a "FENDERish" sound. I know that the 5:25 uses EL 84s, but I was wondering if it's possible to get into FENDER territory with this amp, or would I be better off with the 5:50?

My dilemma is that I don't live near any stores that sell new Mesa/Boogie equipment.


Thanks!

 

[MrMarkIII]

My opinion and experience:
I haven't played a 5:25, but have owned a 5:50, and it was very much in black-face Fender territory. I have also owned a Mesa DC-2 (2 x EL-84) and a Peavey Classic 30 (also 2 x EL-84). They are good sounding amps, but not that Fender sound.
I freely admit my bias toward 6L6 amps. But I doubt you can tweak any EL-84 based amp to get a black face Fender sound.
Having also owned a Fender Deluxe Reverb reissue, I'd still vote for the 5:50.

 

[ifailedshapes]

The 5:25 definitely has a Fendery clean channel. Don't forget that some of Fender's amps use an EL84 power section, so most of the tonality cmes from the preamp. I prefer the 5:25's size (and weight) to the 5:50's, just avoid the 10" speaker. I had the 1x10" combo and really liked it, but when I plugged the same amp into a 12" speaker it was a much better sound.

I don't know what you budget is, but if you're looking at new Expresses, that puts you in the same price range as used Lone Stars. I don't think the Lone Stars are "better", but my next amp will be a Lone Star Special.

 

[Newysurfer]

The 5:25 definitely has a Fendery clean channel. Don't forget that some of Fender's amps use an EL84 power section, so most of the tonality cmes from the preamp. I prefer the 5:25's size (and weight) to the 5:50's, just avoid the 10" speaker. I had the 1x10" combo and really liked it, but when I plugged the same amp into a 12" speaker it was a much better sound.

I don't know what you budget is, but if you're looking at new Expresses, that puts you in the same price range as used Lone Stars. I don't think the Lone Stars are "better", but my next amp will be a Lone Star Special.

So - a 5:25 sounds like Fender EL84 clean tones ? Is that what you're sayin ?
I've never heard an EL84 Fender - didn't know they made any.
But the OP is clearly talkin of 6L6 Fender amps and the 5:25 is not in the ballpark imo.
5:50 cleans though are very similar and better than most Fenders - the reverb too :mrgreen:

 

[Don]

You've probably seen me mention this on another forum- the 5:50 can go way into Fender blackface territory if you replace the speaker. I tried a Weber 12A125 alnico speaker in mine and couldn't get over the sparkle and shimmer. The 5:50 will never have the blackface tone of my Vibrolux Reverb, but I think a Weber 12F150 would be incredible! I don't care for the Celestion C90 in this amp (though it can provied a deep, warm, jazzy tone). My 5:50 1x12 combo weighs about 55 pounds and the cab is almost a foot deep front to rear- not quite "grab and go".

The 5:25s that i have tried (a few 1x10" combos and a 1x12" combo) both sounded tighter and boxier than the 5:50. They don't have the big, fat warm sound that my 5:50 has.

The Lone Star Special has a nice tone. I wouldn't call it blackface, but it has sparkle and chime to spare!

 

[ifailedshapes]

I used to argue this point all the time when I spent all of my time in the Express forum, but most of the difference you hear between the 5:25 and 5:50 comes from the speaker/cabinet, and not the difference in output tubes. If you were to do a blindfolded comparison between a 5:25 and 5:50 through the same cab, you wouldn't be able to tell the difference. The difference between EL84's and 6L6's is the way they feel. The 5:50 will be able to get a hair louder, but certainly not twice as loud. The 5:50 will stay cleaner at those louder volumes, whereas the 5:25 will breakup earlier.

When you play at reasonable volumes, you don't really get to hear the character of the output section. That's one of the things that set Mesa apart in the beginning - their signature sound comes from the preamp, so you can get those meaty tones without damaging anyone's ears. Since the 5:25 and 5:50 use the exact same preamp (says so in the manual), they will sound VERY similar until you turn them up to ear bleeding volumes.

 

[mtodd6]

I've owned Fender black & silver faces, including a pro-reverb. The 5:50 does those cleans & more without what I consider the extreme dynamics & sometime harshness of the Fenders. Maybe the extra dynamics are good for some situations, but I don't like them for my style of playing.

You can get a good deal on the Fender Supersonics used -- comes in a 22 & 60 watt flavor. I think the Supersonic 22 does a good job at a BF deluxe reverb and my 60W Supersonic does a passable bassman/vibrolux and takes the pedals up front very well, just like my 57 deluxe hand-wired.

But my-oh-my, put your effects in the loop on the 5:50, & it's pure heaven. And you haven't even touched on the crunch/burn channel...

 

[J.J]

I have a Deluxe reverb reissue now and have compared it to the 5:25 many times. The 5:25 sounds stiff and a little dull. The DRRI can be harsh and edgy. I can usually tame the DRRI, but I can never add the air and sparkle to the 5:25 tone.

I'd have to say the 5:25 does not do that well at Black face tones and I tried for a long time. In the end I had to get another amp to get those tones. Mesa have better to offer if you want blackface. The TA15 and TA30 would be worth checking out. They are both EL84 based, but are geared more towards vintage tones.

 

[Don]

I have a Deluxe reverb reissue now and have compared it to the 5:25 many times. The 5:25 sounds stiff and a little dull. The DRRI can be harsh and edgy. I can usually tame the DRRI, but I can never add the air and sparkle to the 5:25 tone.

I'd have to say the 5:25 does not do that well at Black face tones and I tried for a long time. In the end I had to get another amp to get those tones. Mesa have better to offer if you want blackface. The TA15 and TA30 would be worth checking out. They are both EL84 based, but are geared more towards vintage tones.

Have you tried a different speaker in your 5:25? My 5:50 did not produce "blackface Fender" like tones with the stock speaker.

 

[J.J]

Yes I have tried a number speakers including the Jensen C12K from my DRRI, but not an Alnico one. Its interesting, the difference you report with your 5:50 with the Weber. From the few times I have played one, the 5:50 does have a small edge over the 5:25 to start with.

 

[nopicknick]

I tried the 5:50 for quite a while in a small room before deciding on the 25. Wasn't looking at the 25 at all but the dealer brought it in there along with a TA30. I tried the 25 last after going back and forth between the 50 and the 30. Once I heard the 25 it was done......nothing wrong with the other two......to my ear the 25 just does so much so well.

 

[Matt616]

If you need a really clean sound at gigging volumes you will want a 5:50 as the 5:25 will break up well before the the 5:50 on the clean channel. They are both great amps but I prefer the 5:50 for versatily. However, I the 5:25 is lighter/smaller so that might be better for a grab and go. I have got an F30 and a 5:50 and will grab either for pratice but if I need to do sultans of swing or somethign like that I need my 5:50 over he F-30.

 

[jeffp]

5:25 gets my vote. I had the 5:50. Go for EL84`s! for Dynamite comes in small packages!

 

[Rockerduck]

I have a DRRI and the 5:50, and to qualify, I have had many Marshalls and currently own three. The DRRI does the Fender cleans and breaks up at 4. The 5:50 does better cleans at much higher headroom. Both amps sounds similar clean. The most versatile is the 5:50. It only weighs 40 pounds, same as the DRRI. EL84 tubes makes any amp more British sounding. Lower watt amps will break up sooner. That's the purpose of the 5:25. I love the cleans of a 100 watt Marshall and the crunch. So the 5:25 leans towards crunch and the 5:50 does the classic 6l6 clean and OD. Apples and oranges.

 

[nighthawk68]

well..I know this discussion is based around the clean sound. Just thought I'd say I tried both out and really like the gain better on the 5:25 better obviously due to the EL84's. I only use the clean on a song or 2 when I gig out. It is pretty good. I found that my new mad professor blue delay really helps over all.

 

[sax4blues]

I'm not sure your definition of "grab & go", but my 5:50 1x12 is heavy. I had a Princeton for awhile and that is the size and weight I think of for grab & go. My 5:50 feels more like lug as you go, kind of bulky going through doorways, takes some serious oomph to lift into a truck or back of a car.

 

[Don]

If you consider "grab and go" to be a guitar in one hand and an amp in the other (one trip to the car), thene the 5:50 is too big and heavy for that for most of us. The 5:25 would be a better choice for that.

 

[Release]

I own the 5:50 but I actually had the 5:25 for about 5 days to try out before I bought it (it always a good idea to get to know your local guitar shop owner!).

For the 5:25, I loved it. It was small, loud and sounded amazing. I was 90% sure I was going to go with that. But the more I played it, the more I found I just couldn't quite get that nice Fender-y Texas tone out of it. I tried and tried and just couldn't get there. It was close but just not quite there. But I did like the burn channel more. It seemed tighter. Everything else about it though, I loved it. The size was perfect.

So on the day I was going back to buy the 5:25 I had (pre) buyers remorse and asked if I could take the 5:50 home for a few hours and compare them both side by side. Honestly, I had the decision made after about 5 minutes. The 5:50 had the exact tones I was looking for and the larger cabinet made a pretty big difference. It's a bigger cabinet...... and it sounds like it too. That's not to say the 5:25 is any less of an amp, it just didn't have the specific tones I was looking for. I'm definitely more of a fan of 6L6's than I am of EL84's.

Whatever you choose, they're both FANTASTIC amps. I've only had it a few weeks but I am constantly being blown away at how friggin' GOOD it sounds! Simply stunning. It's my first Mesa and I couldn't be happier. You can't really lose whichever one you go with. For me, it all came down to tube preference. I know some people say there's not much of a difference between the 2 amps, and for a lot of the sounds, there really isn't, but after playing one for a few days and knowing the sound that was missing, it was apparent right away at which one I was coming home with.

 

[Wolfboy1]

I just picked up a Fender Champion 600. Now that is a grab and go amp 8)

 

[Don]

I'm definitely more of a fan of 6L6's than I am of EL84's.

That's why I have a 5:50 over the 5:25. I like the big round warm clean tones only the big bottles seem to provide! If I was playing dirty more often I might've gone the other way.