Express 5:25 1x12 Anyone tried replacing the V30?

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LesMesa

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Hi everyone,

I’ve had an Express 5:25 1x12 for 18 months now and overall love it especially for its size and versatility. I can go from AC/DC on Crunch to Neil Young on Blues modes. Lately though I’ve begun to question whether I’m happy with the V30 speaker. I believe it’s a Made in England, not a Chinese Celestion.

Has anyone changed out the V30 and if so what with and was it any better? I ask because I’m generally happy with the tone in all four modes when standing slightly to the side of the amp. When I walk in front of the amp I don’t like the sound very much. I’m sure I’m not explaining this very well – I know all amps sound differently depending on where the listener is. I’ve seen a few people in other forums complain about the upper mid range of the V30 and that sounds somewhat harsh to me.

What do you guys think? Is the V30 not right for this amp or do I just have a bad case of G-A-S and need to leave a perfectly good amp alone?

I was considering the WGS Speakers, Vetern, Green Beret, or Reaper. Has anyone tried these speakers in their 5:25?

Thanks.
 
I'm replacing the V30 which I don't particularly care for with a Weber Ceramic Blue Dog 30w. Haven't got it yet but I've heard enough of them to know I'll like it much better than the V30.
 
I've got a 5:25X10" in which I've installed a Weber alnico Blue Pup. Also got a Studio 22 and had a V30 in it. It's now replaced with a Weber alnico Blue dog (30w). Both these speakers sound absolutely great.
 
Thanks for the responses. I hadn't even considered a Blue Dog. I thought they might be too bright for a Mesa but it sounds like a couple of people like them. I love the Express because it allows for so many styles - can the Blue Dog handle metal like old Metallica in the Burn mode? I don't play metal very often but I like to keep my tonal options open.
 
As someone suggested before, soundchaser is the guy to go to. He's tried **** near every cone in that amp. Personally I don't like the V30 at all. Way too grainy, kinda like you were saying. Harsh. If you can't get a tone you like standing right in front of the amp I'd think about changing the speaker. If you go to a concert or do any recordings the audience or microphone is going to be getting that nasty sound. I found that I only like 2 amps through a V30. A Bogner Alchemist and the Egnators. Other than that, I've hated every other amp that I played through one, my own included.
 
EtherealWidow said:
As someone suggested before, soundchaser is the guy to go to. He's tried **** near every cone in that amp. Personally I don't like the V30 at all. Way too grainy, kinda like you were saying. Harsh. If you can't get a tone you like standing right in front of the amp I'd think about changing the speaker. If you go to a concert or do any recordings the audience or microphone is going to be getting that nasty sound.

I think you’re right about the audience – someone is always going to be in front of the speaker.

I sent a PM to Soundchaser but have not heard back. Speakers and pickups are two of the hardest pieces of gear to try out because you can’t return them if you don’t like them unlike effects pedals. Speakers are probably the worst because you have to break them in before you can tell what they'll finally sound like.
 
You could email a number of people out there to get a good, honest opinion of speakers. Email the guy from Boogafunk and someone from Weber speakers including Soundchaser here on this board. Also, if you have the equipment and the very little know-how that is necessary maybe you could look into some impulse responses and go from your effects loop into an interface.
 
Its up to you to decide if you really like the V30. I tried the 5:25 with the V30 out and the 5:25 with the little 10"er. It was no comparison especially when on the burn channel. The V30 is just too harsh. I used to own a Fender Supersonic 2x12 w/ V30's. I practically gave it away as the fuzziness it added to the tone was driving me insane.
 
imo.....the Express is a very unique animal when it comes to tone controls. It is very capable of delivering way too much of everything, especially upper mids and highs, especially with the extra kick you can get from cranking the contour knob. The up side to that is I think the Express treble knob sounds better than the treble coming from my guitar and pedals if I have my guitar treble turned up all the way. So I ended up cutting the guitar tone and slightly boosting the amps treble and mids. My favorite component of the Express tone comes mostly from the bass knob, but it can get overwhelming very quickly. In short, this amp is superbly capable but very tedious to dial in. Fortunately, the 12 incher is a huge advantage over the 10.

It is hard to "describe the sound" but I can add my two bit suggestions to the list here......

My favorite 2 or 3 speakers by far with the Express amp for use on stage are EV, Weber Texas, and Tone Tubby. These speakers have the complete freq spectrum and will not leave you wondering how to hear yourself when you stand next to the drummer. Love these 3 but note that the EV stands clearly above all the rest. For the 10 I absolutely raved about the Tone Tubby Superboy 10, which is actually a bass speaker, but it can handle anything that Express can throw out, and it doesn't sound like a bass speaker! It actually has a full enough freq response to give you everything you are expecting to hear from a guitar! Superb! I dont know how long EV's take to break in because I've never bought a new one, only used and (as far as I know) original. But once you dial it in there is nothing else like it, especially for an amp of this quality. Honorable mention on equal ground but not my taste would be Weber California and perhaps a couple of the high power Eminences like Swamp Thang for warmer/darker, or Tonker if you like it brighter. But they dont seem to have the "raw and alive" quality down pat like the California has. The California to me sounded like it was made for Strats, which is what I play, but I spend a lot of time trying to make my Strat sound smoother and cleaner than perhaps a Strat should really sound. So I ended up favoring the EV and the Texas over any other Webers. Since you mention a bit of metal in your songbook, I will not suggest the Blue Dog or the Silver Bell, those are more blues and classic rockers sounds.

If you will be playing at home mostly, mostly by yourself for fun, or mostly just for recording, then you can get away with a different selection of speakers to choose from. There are a few speakers that dont necessarily cut thru on stage as well but which are excellent for recording and soloing. Most notable for me was the Weber Michigan, very smooth, very stand up and take every punch you throw at it kind of speaker, and easy to give the sound some extra everything and the Michigan will still remain clean and tireless. If you side by side it with an EV you will quickly realize that the Michigan is smoothing over some rough edges in the sound, it is not a "brutally honest" speaker at all (like the EV is) but if you were to play Webers and only Webers at home or maybe in a straight clean blues band or a jazz or lite fusion band, the Michigan could easily become your new best friend. Rumor is the Michigan is perhaps Weber's least efficient speaker, which accounts for a lot of its smooth sound, so it is a good choice if you are the only guitar in the band and you are not using a ton of distortion in your song list. Actually, the Thames was very similar. I had them side by side and was almost unable to tell the difference. In a 2x12 together it sounded like one speaker only bigger. The 12F150 is supposedly Weber's most efficient speaker, too bad it doesn't have a hemp cone or I'd try it today.

If you want the best for both worlds, EV is the top USDA pick, with Tone Tubby a close runner up. Be careful with buying used EV's, there are a ton of recones out there and many sellers are not in the habit of openly advertising that it is reconed. A lot of them seem to have a "if you dont know what to ask, that's not my fault" attitude. I cant say any of them have lied to me (though I've wondered about a few) but dont expect them to volunteer any info. I've concluded that the best bet in used EVM12L is the ones that came out of Mesa amps and might be described as EV Black Shadow in some cases. EV Force is an option but I think they sound a bit different than the real EVM's do.

I also do not appreciate the V30. As a rule of thumb I would suggest finding a speaker that has little or no "presence peak" for this amp. The Express has plenty of that already. If you try a Tone Tubby you will notice that it is almost impossible to find anyone selling them used. That says something..... they get them and they dont like to let go of them. Must be a reason. New ones take a long time to break in as the cone is said to be more than 50% hemp, very stiff. My best luck with Tubbys has been new ones for $113 from South Valley Vintage Amps. Scott offers great service. He also sells a few Webers. I also notice I have never seen a 12 inch Weber Texas for sale used either. 12 inch EV's are more common probably because they've been doing it so long and there are just more of them out there.

And remember that this amp is extremely impressionable to what kind of signal you feed into it starting with the pickups, pedals, etc. all the way thru to the speaker. I doubt that you can get away from that center cone projection syndrome, every speaker does that in some way. Hope this helps and I'm not making the choice more brain bending than it already is. I have more first hand knowledge with the 10's but this should give you something to think about. Nice thing about EV's also is they have the best resale value if you dont like it. Just keep in mind that you have to redial EVERYTHING and do your darndest to get "your tone" from a speaker before you decide you dont like it, especially the EV's. But if you dial it in and you like it, you will love it!!My current lineup is 1x12 EVM12L, 1x15 EVM15L, 2x10 Tone Tubby Superboy + EV10BX, and 2x12 Tone Tubby + Texas. The Express currently has a Tone Tubby in it, but I think the Texas was my favorite to date. I let go of it so I could raise money for the 2x12. I had a chance to grab a 10 inch Michigan but I left the house and the auction ended while I was enjoying 3D Avatar. Probably wont' see another one of those for a few years, and Weber does not make them any more.

I should probably add that the one Celestion I tried that I liked was the Gold, but it is hard to dial in and will not give you the full range of freq response that one might like to get from an amp of this caliber. Superb when dialed in but it is definitely a Celestion speaker then and not an Express speaker, if that makes sense.....otherwise I am no fan of Celestions.
 
Guys, thanks very much for the answers here. There’s clearly a lot of knowledge and experience on the Boogie Board.

Soundchaser – thanks especially for your answer. I’ll try to find sound clips to the three speakers you recommended. It sounds like you think the EV is the best speaker in terms of honest sound but that the Texas was your favorite in the Express. I had a quick look at the EV specs and am a little put off by the weight of the speaker (50% more than the V30) but maybe that’s quality.

Two things surprised me about the answers 1. nobody came out in favor of the V30 for the Express and 2. nobody recommended a Greenback as that seems to be the speaker of choice for many non-Mesa amps.
 
Still I'd keep the V30 to make comparisons, it is a warm speaker and sometimes the sound you don't like at your house has the mids that push through a gig.

I have not experienced an express 5:25 with a V30 but I do have the f-30 which more or less shares the power amp cabinet and speaker. I do not know about the burn channel.

The amp absolutely needs/benefits from the V30 live. I don't know if it would be my first choice for blues or rock but I play heavy anyway. It sits fat in the mix and that says it all.


My speaker has an ipswich england sticker. If yours is english too, or if mine is I don't know! But I'd keep it to make sure I liked the replacement first and then sell it or whatever you want to do with it.
 
LesMesa said:
Two things surprised me about the answers 1. nobody came out in favor of the V30 for the Express and 2. nobody recommended a Greenback as that seems to be the speaker of choice for many non-Mesa amps.

Ok, I'll say, I really like the V30 for some things. I wouldn't say it is an overly versatile speaker. Where I think it works really well is for crunch type tones. It is also quite an efficent speaker which is important for the 5:25 as it's output wattage not huge. A greenback may not be loud enough for gigs in comparison.

From the original Question, I have had my express for a year also and have been looking for a speaker repacement or additional cab to make things more versatile. While I am still not "sold" on anything what I have learnt is that if you play clean then you probably don't want your speaker to contribute to the sound to much. As Soundchaser has said, a high efficency speaker without resonance breakups like the EVM will be king. It will let you hear the amp and your guitar as accurately as is possible. If on the other hand you are a speaker breakup kind of guy looking for classic rock sounds you need a speaker that will add its magic. Lower wattage speakers is what I would be investingating.

The V30 being 60 watts sits in the middle here in the 5:25. It definately adds its bit and to my ears adds to any crunch type sounds. The 5:25 doesn't have enough power to get the V30 really cooking. It may work better in the 5:50. Interestingly Mesa choose the C90 for the 5:50 which should stay cleaner longer than the V30
 
I have an MC90 on its way to me from ePay to try out. I am kean to see if it can bring some of the MKV clarity and smoothness, without so much of the in your face mids. Am also hoping that it will bring out more of the upper harmonics without getting harsh.

While I'm at it I also want to make a cab to experiment with and compare against the Express combo cab. I have some good quality 3/4" 12 ply to use.
 
Many thanks to Soundchaser59... you sure bring a lot of value to this dialog.

I did find this video clip showing some great real time comparisons of some of the mentioned speakers.
I really like the apples to apples way this shootout was constructed. If not for something like this, a newbie like me would just get lost in paper comparison.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWK0sa7tlfI
 
I recently acquired an Express (finally!) 1x12 combo after selling my 2x12 combo a while back and regretting it .... I'd like to trade my combo for a head but assuming I am unable to do that I was wondering if anyone has tried a Cannabis Rex with their 5:50. I'm losing confidence in the C90/ Express combination as it it just a little to brittle/ harsh/ mid heavy...etc. Right now I am running it through a 1x10 closed back cab I built with an Eminence Delta Demon. IMO it sounds good. Since I mainly play at low volume and have other amps for high gain tone this amp will be used for big boomy cleans (blues/ jazz) and barely broken up bluesy stuff (chnl 2 = gain no more than 75 percent/ blues setting). Any suggestions for that type of sound? Something comparable to a Delta Demon? V30s will be too harsh/ bright. C90's are too mid heavy.
 
I'm surpised you are finding the C90 to be mid heavy or britle and harsh. The C90 sounds almost scooped side by side with the V30 and has loads more bass. The V30 does sound brighter than a C90, but does not have the extended top end. The C90 upper mids and highs also have quite a bit more clarity than a V30.

I would guess that you will like a V30 less than the C90.

Have not tried a Cannabis rex, but have looked into them quite a bit. Sounds like you would be fairly happy with one. For blues I think the CR would be a little dull for me though.

In my quest for tone I am liking the C90, but want something with less bass. I like the G12T75, but they can sound brittle... Maybe I could drill some holes in the C90 magnet :shock:
 

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