EV Speaker Advise?

[steelgtr]

Hi Guys,

I just sold 2 EVM-15L's (Series II) with some old PA speakers I had. I'm really regretting it after trying them through a steel guitar amp and gong back to the factory Black Widow speakers.

I know you guys know a lot about EV speakers and need some guidance finding one again.

How is the series II different from the EVM-15L? I'd also like to find a pair of 12 inch versions to put in my Studio Pre rack setup?

Here is the link to my post in the steel guitar forum:

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=1755151#1755151

I'd really appreciate any help! I usually have buyers remorse, not sellers remorse

thx

bob

 

[steelgtr]

I forgot to add that the guy that bought them was putting them is an empty Mesa bass cabinet. His belief was that these were the exact speakers that came with the cabinet. Could that be true or would it have been an original 400 watt version, the EVM-15L (non series II)?

thx

bob

 

[steelgtr]

Is this the wrong place to ask? I found a lot of EV info here while searching and hoped to solve my dilemma! And. yes I am a Mesa owner (Studio Pre)!

thx

bob

 

[droptrd]

This is a good place to ask. I unfortunately dont have any experiance with the 15s.

 

[markwayne]

I had a couple of EV SRO 15s (the direct forerunner of the original 15L) in a 2-15 cab that I used to use along side two 4-12, Marshall cabs. (Yes, it was a loud rig.) If you are after the massive low end authority you got from a 15, I predict you will never be satisfied with a 12L or any 12 for that matter.

There are a number of great 15s out there right now. In fact, Eminence has a neodymium 15 in their pro sound reinforcement line that is supposed to be very close to the old EV 15s (and a lot lighter). I'm seriously thinking of having a small 1 15 cabinet built to add some girth to my Mark IV combo.

Oh, and I can't say for sure, but I stick to my conjecture posted elsewhere that the only difference between EV's 200 and 400 watt EVMs is the fitting of the large, black heat sink.

 

[steelgtr]

I had a couple of EV SRO 15s (the direct forerunner of the original 15L) in a 2-15 cab that I used to use along side two 4-12, Marshall cabs. (Yes, it was a loud rig.) If you are after the massive low end authority you got from a 15, I predict you will never be satisfied with a 12L or any 12 for that matter.

There are a number of great 15s out there right now. In fact, Eminence has a neodymium 15 in their pro sound reinforcement line that is supposed to be very close to the old EV 15s (and a lot lighter). I'm seriously thinking of having a small 1 15 cabinet built to add some girth to my Mark IV combo.

Oh, and I can't say for sure, but I stick to my conjecture posted elsewhere that the only difference between EV's 200 and 400 watt EVMs is the fitting of the large, black heat sink.

Thanks, Wayne

A tech at EV said the wattage difference was only in the way they test them! He did say the original 15L is slightly different from the series II and the Pro-Line is identical to the series II. Thanks for the reply.

bob

 

[MJ Slaughter]

Oh, and I can't say for sure, but I stick to my conjecture posted elsewhere that the only difference between EV's 200 and 400 watt EVMs is the fitting of the large, black heat sink.

From what I was told by a tech you are correct. I have one with and one without the heat sink. Here is what I was told about it:

Correct the large pic in the middle of the page with the decal should be what you have there.

There were a number of variations of the EVM-12L All of them had the same characteristics but the design changed slightly over time.
The added heat sink is what gives you the extra wattage capacity.

Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Best regards

Ben Geving

Senior Technical Support (ST/TSS1.1-AM)
Applications Specialist
Bosch Security Systems, Inc
12000 Portland Ave South
Burnsville, Minnesota 55337
USA
www.boschcommunications.com

 

[dodger916]

Color me incredulous, but I find it hard to believe that the heat sink is the ONLY difference that allows a speaker rated at 200 watts to suddenly be able to handle twice that power. I'm not saying it ain't so (because I'm no expert), but I find it hard to believe.

 

[MrMarkIII]

Hmmm...
Well, if you go to the website, the EVM12L Classic is 200 watts.
The EVM12L Black Label is 300 watts.
Except for cosmetics, they look identical, and neither has cooling fins.

 

[MJ Slaughter]

I have no clue but it is hard for me to believe too. Why would a tech with EV lie about it though?

 

[steelgtr]

I have no clue but it is hard for me to believe too. Why would a tech with EV lie about it though?

Maybe he was lied to?


bob

 

[markwayne]

I have no clue but it is hard for me to believe too. Why would a tech with EV lie about it though?

Maybe he was lied to?


bob

Well, as far as I know, there's only two ways to kill a speaker. There's thermal failure and mechanical failure. Of the two, temperature is the most dangerous as it directly impacts a speaker's ability to control cone excursion which would, of course, lead to mechanical failure. The published cone and voice coil specs of the OEM and Pro Line are the same. The magnet structure is the exact, same weight. That would seem to indicate that cone excursion would be controlled equally at a given temperature for either speaker. Therefore, it seems to me that heat dispersion is the only thing left.

I'm pretty sure, at those wattages, and given the impedance of the speaker, the majority of that extra power would get wasted as heat anyway. The laws of thermodynamics are pretty absolute.

 

[japster]

Hmmm,

interesting stuff, but I've just melted 2 x EVM-12Ls on their first gig, brand new re-cones with genuine EV parts.

Running them both with a singe side of a Mesa Simul Class 295 power amp giving 95 watts of power.

Any clues as to what's happened here ? The recone guy is claming they may have suffered from "under powering" ? Would this call them to melt ?

What's that all about ?

:evil:

 

[MJ Slaughter]

Hmmm,

interesting stuff, but I've just melted 2 x EVM-12Ls on their first gig, brand new re-cones with genuine EV parts.

Running them both with a singe side of a Mesa Simul Class 295 power amp giving 95 watts of power.

Any clues as to what's happened here ? The recone guy is claming they may have suffered from "under powering" ? Would this call them to melt ?

What's that all about ?

:evil:

If under powering them caused the problem I should have had a melt down long ago. I use 2 EVM12Ls with my DC-3 30 watt amp. Been gigging with that rig for the past 6 months and I don't even push the little amp hard.

 

[dodger916]

Hmmm,

interesting stuff, but I've just melted 2 x EVM-12Ls on their first gig, brand new re-cones with genuine EV parts.

Running them both with a singe side of a Mesa Simul Class 295 power amp giving 95 watts of power.

Any clues as to what's happened here ? The recone guy is claming they may have suffered from "under powering" ? Would this call them to melt ?

What's that all about ?

:evil:

So the recone guy is claiming this, huh? It sounds to me like he might have messed up.

 

[Restless Rocks]

I have a 1983 EVM 12L that came with the BIG BLACK heat sink. It is 200 watt rated. Says so on the heat sink. I also have a 1993 EVM 12L proline that does NOT have the big black heat sink. It says on the factory sticker that it is rated at 300watts. The literature which came with the EVM 15B prolines I bought new in boxes (which DO have the Big black heat sink and are rated at 400watts) states that the EVM proline has a special teflon coating on the voice coil that protects it from warpage and higher heat giving it the higher power handling capability. I also have a few OEM MESA EVM 12L's which are labeled as 200 watts and I have a couple EVM 12L series II which are also labeled as 200watts.

 

[markwayne]

Hmmm,

interesting stuff, but I've just melted 2 x EVM-12Ls on their first gig, brand new re-cones with genuine EV parts.

Running them both with a singe side of a Mesa Simul Class 295 power amp giving 95 watts of power.

Any clues as to what's happened here ? The recone guy is claming they may have suffered from "under powering" ? Would this call them to melt ?

What's that all about ?

:evil:

So the recone guy is claiming this, huh? It sounds to me like he might have messed up.

Generally, when a tech says underpowered he's outing himself as either - someone without a great deal of experience with musical instrument equipment or someone trying to cover their ***. In the hi-fi world feeding a distorted signal (square waves) to a speaker for extended periods of time will melt a voice coil. Guitarists, on the other hand, live in the clipped (square wave) world and EV is well aware of this. I find it a little tough to believe that square waves are the only source of the problem here. It sounds more likely that the basket might be out of alignment. If the voice coil rubs against the gap it is suspended in at all, you get friction. Friction gives you heat. Heat kills speakers. If the basket is warped to the point that the voice coil rubs, the speaker is trash. A good tech (honest) would have known right away if the basket was shot and would never have bothered doing a recone.

 

[markwayne]

I have a 1983 EVM 12L that came with the BIG BLACK heat sink. It is 200 watt rated. Says so on the heat sink. I also have a 1993 EVM 12L proline that does NOT have the big black heat sink. It says on the factory sticker that it is rated at 300watts. The literature which came with the EVM 15B prolines I bought new in boxes (which DO have the Big black heat sink and are rated at 400watts) states that the EVM proline has a special teflon coating on the voice coil that protects it from warpage and higher heat giving it the higher power handling capability. I also have a few OEM MESA EVM 12L's which are labeled as 200 watts and I have a couple EVM 12L series II which are also labeled as 200watts.

I had not heard that. Yeah, that sounds like a plausible explanation.

I found this posted by a tech on-line and it looks fairly authoritative:

EVM12L Series II is 200 watt...Successor to the SRO12. The SRO gap is a bit narrower yielding higher flux strength and a bit more sensitivity,1-2dB.

EVM12L Pro-Line. Rated at 300 watts. Same speaker with an added "Pro-Tef" teflon coating on voice coil and outer edge of voice coil gap to insulate/lubricate against voicecoil-topplate arc-short contact under extreme excursion/ power conditions. Also had extra laquer dip at the cone apex for added strength to prevent buckling from high power transients.

EVM12S Series II. Shallower basket/cone profile than 12L for enhanced mids in the 2000-3000 hz range. Voice coil and spider same as 12L.

EVM12S Pro-Line. All EVM Pro-Line drivers had the same "Pro-Tef" treatment.

OEM versions are exactly the same speaker without either the finned heatsink or the factory label on the backplate. The EV part number is stamped "812-xxxx-xxx". The major difference between OEM and factory labeled speakers was the warranty. Five years factory, 1 year OEM warranty in most cases, unless otherwise specified.
EVM12L Classic. Reissue of EVM12L Series II, 200 watt.

EVM12L Black Label Society. Reissue of EVM12L Pro-Line.

 

[steelgtr]

I have a 1983 EVM 12L that came with the BIG BLACK heat sink. It is 200 watt rated. Says so on the heat sink. I also have a 1993 EVM 12L proline that does NOT have the big black heat sink. It says on the factory sticker that it is rated at 300watts. The literature which came with the EVM 15B prolines I bought new in boxes (which DO have the Big black heat sink and are rated at 400watts) states that the EVM proline has a special teflon coating on the voice coil that protects it from warpage and higher heat giving it the higher power handling capability. I also have a few OEM MESA EVM 12L's which are labeled as 200 watts and I have a couple EVM 12L series II which are also labeled as 200watts.

Marshall from EV tech told me the Pro-Line and Series II were identical. markwaynes post looks accurate. I'm going to call again and ask for an old timer. (Marshall is 30)


bob

 

[japster]

Yeah that's what I thought,

I've been using them in class A mode in the house which is 30 watts, surely an overdriven valve power amp of total 95watt output into 2 x 200w rms speakers shouldn't melt them.

The guy has agreed for me to return them but it cost me £160 to have them reconed and I can't afford to pay again