zebpedersen said:
I do, however, stand by the point that just relying on presets removes the important learning that happens when you try, try and try again to get a decent sound from any amp (be it a Boogie or otherwise). Eventually, you get good at it, and it sounds great, and it's a really important skill to have, I think, and by just relying on presets you simply don't learn it. And I think that's an equally reasonable point.
I can see what point your trying to make but i question whether you have ever owned a good modelling amp (Vetta, Axe-fx, etc.). Yes they have presets but like the presets in the back of the Mesa manual, they're going to be not quite 'you' or not quite THE tone your after. Those presets represent a starting point not a fast forward button so to speak.
Now here's where your point is actually the opposite of reality... while there is a learning curve with any tube amp (some are larger than others), you can get really great tones relatively easy. This is why people a lot of people turn away from modellers... tube amps are more or less plug and play with a pretty short learning curve. Now look at a modeller like the Vetta or Axe-fx and its a whole different world. The Vetta is the easier of the two to figure out but at the end of the day the learning curve is much larger than even the most complex tube amp. At least with a tube amp your dealing with the same eq sensitivity across the board where as a modeller changes with each amp model. Meaning you not only have to learn how a Mesa model's eqs work but also the Marshalls, Diezels, ENGLs, Bogners, Vox's, Fenders, etc... and thats just the amp models! Now throw all the fx and routing capabilities into the mix and you can spend months trying to dial in certain tones before you get the hang of it.
Now thats just at the level of a Vetta caliber modeller... jump to the Axe-fx Standard and dare i say Ultra, and your in a totally different league. The Axe-fx not only modells the eq sensitivity of any given amp model but also the amount power amp sag, depth, and believe it or not, tube bias! Yeah Cliff managed to model how different power tube biases sound in a given amp which makes the process of dialing in any one amp model an adventure to say the least. Now on top of that throw in the fact that you can stack amp models and that you have endless amounts of cab simulations (stock ones plus customs IRs)... do you see where i'm going with this? And i haven't even touched on the fx which are equally as daunting if your not accustom to complex modellers.
At the end of the day, the point is as much time as we spend unlocking the beauty and know how of our tube amps, the modelling world can be 10000x more complex to truly understand how to wield those amps. When you do have the understanding, a modeller can stand side by side with a tube amp. Thats not to say one is better than the other because thats all in taste and ear of the player but point is modellers are no free ticket to good tone and in lots of cases are cast off as toys because most guitarsist dont have or want to spend the time needed to really understand the way they function... tube amps by contrast are more or less plug and play, which is why even players who can appreciate a modeller go back to a tube amp.
So I could see what you were getting at, especially for those of us that extend the "dialing in" process to swapping tubes, modding and the use of various drive/eq pedals to achieve a certain tone, but the reality of it is you'll find more instant gratification out of a tube amp than you will a modeller.
