EL34s in my LoneStar Classic

[cnumb44]

I spent a little time today playing my LSC with a set of Shuguang EL34s instead of the stock 6L6's.

All of what you are about to read is subjective and my characterizations probably do not capture the differences in sound.

The basics:
- I played using the same settings in each case to start.
- I played the same set of songs and riffs on each
- I used the 2 channels and the drive
- I did not use the reverb

In general, the 6L6s have a taller high end. Not brighter, just more defined in both the channels. It is the character of chimey that a lot of people use to describe these tubes.

The 34s have a more organic high end. The same frequencies are there, I would call it broader with more depth than the 6L6. Maybe it is harmonics but I found the sound to be more full.

I found the clean channel differences to be very subtle but significant, if that makes sense. With the 34s I found the bridge position of my Les Paul to have a little more warmth mixed with the edge. The neck didn't exhibit as much difference in warmth and the middle had the open sound that I like. The 6L6s seemed a little more focused in all positions and as if there was less sonic randomness in the tone.

When driven the 34s have a slight edge to them and the organic sound is much more pronouned. The tubes seem to break up a little earlier at the same settings and when they break up they produce a more chaotic type of drive sound, but not out of control or flubby. It is the heritage sound of Marshall's.

When driven the 6L6 has a tighter more controlled drive sound. I now see why they are the foundation of the Mesa Rectifier sound for modern metal. It is a very unique sound.

Both respond nicely in channel 2 with the drive on. The character of both is more pronounced with the 34s developing more breadth along with the depth while the 6L6s extend their tighter drive sound. When I used the thick and thicker positions it added good and pleasing character to both tubes. The 34s probably got more from that switch.

The 34s seemed to play a little louder at the same settings, but that might be because of the bias switch.

If I had to give a general classification I would say that the 6L6's are a tight, more focused sound with a later stage breakup when driven. The EL34s have a greater breadth and organic nature to their sound.

I hope this helps. I've used the Shuguang tubes (new manufacture) in several amps and have found them to be great sounding tubes with a real nice balance and great overall tone. Read the review at tubestore.com.

 

[old-guy]

Hi Jerry!
I gotta tell you, your description of comparing the EL34
to the 6L6 in the LSC was absolutely outstanding. I could hear the tones as I was reading it. Great Job! Thank you very much for that. I hope LSSMan reads it. I think it will answer all of his questions.

Enjoy!
Play Well!

Bob M.

 

[Guitar55]

So which did you like better, or which will you keep in the amp?

 

[cnumb44]

I liked each of them. It'd be great to be able to use them both. They each add a different character and I can't really say one is better than the other.

The down side is that it made me start thinking about a Roadking. I just don't know how close it gets to the LS sound, but you can run both tube types.

I will try a different set of 6L6s (probably Shuguang again) and see if that changes that sound. Right now I am leaning toward the 6L6s, but I do have my Marshall days, so it is a pretty simple swap.

 

[Nomad]

When I switched (to Winged C EL34's) I found the 34's to have less Bass than the 6L6's. I have the Classic 1x12 wide combo and with 6L6's in it I have to turn the Bass way down but with 34's I can bring it back up to normal levels.

 

[LSCMan]

****, I gotta try that!

 

[Nomad]

One thing I dont like about the Winged C's I have is the constan jingly rattle they do. Anyone have suggestions on something else.

 

[mojo]

I liked each of them. It'd be great to be able to use them both. They each add a different character and I can't really say one is better than the other.

The down side is that it made me start thinking about a Roadking. I just don't know how close it gets to the LS sound, but you can run both tube types.

I will try a different set of 6L6s (probably Shuguang again) and see if that changes that sound. Right now I am leaning toward the 6L6s, but I do have my Marshall days, so it is a pretty simple swap.

crumb44,

Contact Bob @ eurotube, he puts together what's called integrated quads (2- 6L6's and 2- EL34's). These tube sets are run together in the 100watt mode on an LSC. I've heard this work's pretty well, but use your own judgement on the feasability of this mod. The bias of course has to be switched to either 6L6 or EL34. I forgot which setting is used.

 

[cnumb44]

I am finding that I like the 6L6 sound just slightly more. It is all subjective, but the best way I can explain this is an analogy to wine. The EL34s are much like a red wine with multiple overtones of scent and taste that provide a darker pallet. The 6L6s are a complex white wine that has a clear taste from which it is derived, but surprises you with a few accents that please the ear.

These days, I think my ears are leaning more toward the white wine.

 

[vulture2600]

an integrated quad is an awesome idea, i strongly reccommend it!

 

[Nomad]

I dont think you can do a EL34/6L6 Combo without changing a resitor on one set of tubes. If you dont your playing with gasoline and a lit match. The Mark IV's do this Simulclass.

While we are talking about Wine you guys have got to try Stonegate year 2000. Not 1999 not 2001 or anything else. This is the schiznit. That year was a really freakin good year. When you pull the cork out it will have sedement on the end. This stuff is smooth as silk and will put a whoopin on you.

 

[mojo]

I dont think you can do a EL34/6L6 Combo without changing a resitor on one set of tubes. If you dont your playing with gasoline and a lit match. The Mark IV's do this Simulclass.

Nomad,

I, in no way am an amp or bottle Guru. I talked to Bob @ eurotube and he's already installed integrated quads (6L6's & EL34's) in LSC'S with no amp mods and no problems. I've done business with him on multiple occasions. I think he's a straight up guy. I very much doubt he would risk his reputation and promote a setup that would fry our babies just to sell $50.00 worth of tubes. I will say this though, when I first heard about integrated quads, alarm bell's went off in my head as well.

 

[Nomad]

I am in no way a Tech but I know EL34's are biased hotter than 6L6's and dont know how you do this without a resistor. Either your EL34's would be pulling to much current in the 6L6 Mode or the 6L6's would be smoking in the EL34 Mode. If theese tubes biased the same there wouldnt be a bias switch on the amp.

Unless you find some oddball tubes that end up biasing the same.

Be carefull for your Output Trany and dont play it real loud.

 

[mojo]

I doubt I'll do it myself, I was just commenting on whats available. It's just something else to research, check out and learn about if you want to obtain a combination of those two tubes tone. I'm pretty sure they are specially selected tube sets, perhaps like you said oddball tubes. Besides in this summer of my discontent, this forum has proven to be a goldmine of information regarding mesa amps, so I'm just bouncing stuff off you guys. As of this writing I am 2 1/2 months and waiting for my LSC 1x12 widebody to arrive (Imbuya is Temporarily Out of Stock..Ho Hum). My down loaded manual is well past dog-eared and all this waiting **** is driving me to drink, I think. So...exactly how much was a bottle of that Stonegate 2000 you were talkin' bout. Oh and by the way, can you recommend some cheese as well, it ought to go nicely with my wine :lol:

 

[cnumb44]

I did email Bob at Eurotubes and he gave me some info. First off, I have bought tubes from Eurotubes in the past and have been very pleased with the consistentcy and customer support. Because of that I am certain he has done this type of mod before and found it successful.

As I understand it he finds 6L6 tubes and EL34 tubes that operate in the same bias range (38-40 mA idle plate current ?) and you run the LSC in EL34 mode. He has done similar tube groupings for Peavey and other Mesa amps with fixed bias. It does sound interesting, but not something I'm going to try. I just prefer to run the LSC in a stock manner.

I bought it because I like its sound, not because I thought I could make it sound better. So much of the tone is in your fingers anyway. I am sure this very amp would sound way better and fuller played by Billy Gibbons or Carlos Santana than it does when I play it!

Speakers have, in my opinion, a much more profound impact on the overall sound. I swapped the stock ones on the LSC for a pair of Weber Silver Bells I've beenusing for a while and just love how they sound in this beast. Same impedance and wiring and power rated high enough to deal with the 100W amp mode.

Anyone used the JJ 6L6's and what did you think of them?

 

[mojo]

Ya, I use JJ6l6's in my HRDx, nice creamy tone, well defined, tons of headroom and have been reliable.

 

[Nomad]

I see how that would work but 6L6's that would Bias with EL34's I would call Oddball. :lol:

Of coarse I'm a bit of an oddball myself. :shock: