Effect chain sequence

[bigmondayz]

I'm looking for input about the sequence of my effects as I'm using them through my Mark IV. Let me know if you have any suggestions or specific experience with this equipment. I looked through the "post your pedal board" topic, but most don't list sequence of effects.

Guitar >> Keeley Comp. >> Crybaby >> Mark IV

Effects Loop >> BF-3 >> CH-1 >> Big Muff >> DD-3

I use the rythmn 2 channel for "clean" tone because it breaks up just a little bit. The keeley and lead channels give me two different levels for cleaner lead work. For heavy rythmn distortion I use the same rythmn 2 settings, and switch on the Big Muff.

I love the tone I get from this set up. The problem is that turning up the amp's master volume changes the amount of volume boost I get from the Big Muff. If the boost sounds right at low volume, then at stage volume the Big Muff actually brings volume DOWN - not cool! I'm sure this has to do with the Big Muff being in the Loop, but that's the only place it sounds good.

Anyone else have this problem?

 

[Rocky]

It is a bad idea to put overdrives and distortions in the effects loop. Get that Big Muff out of there and put it in front of the amp where it is supposed to be.

I would revise what is in front of the amp to go like this:

Crybaby > Compressor > Big Muff > Amp

If you can't get the Big Muff to sound good on that amp then I would suggest getting rid of it and finding a fuzz that works in your setup.


Grab this Month's issue of guitar player....it has the best article on effects chains I have ever seen.

 

[MusicManJP6]

+1 to what Rocky said but you might like the warmth the compressor adds to the distortion when used after it instead of before it...

 

[Rocky]

Compressors also amplify any noise from things like overdrives as well. Compressors, almost always, should be one of the first things in your chain. Big Muffs add all sorts of noise so that compressor would make things really quite ugly.

A noise gate would have to join the chain.

 

[bigmondayz]

I know the "conventional knowledge" goes distortion > amp. The problem is the Muff sounds GREAT in the loop, and like **** in front of the amp. It's really just an issue of volume changes. I've also tried the comp > distortion > amp trick, which didn't do much for me, although it didn't add much noise (it's a pretty noiseless comp, and the big muff is noisy with or without...) Thanks for your input, but I'm still looking for another solution.

Side note - I use the volume boost on the Crybaby, so I need it after the comp.

 

[MusicManJP6]

there's no 'right' way to order your effects. If it sounds good to you then go for it! I bleeb Satriani has used his DS-1 in the loop before...

 

[Dusty Rhodes]

Pick up the latest issue of Guitar Player. There is a whole section dedicated to just this subject. Good information.

 

[BobL]

Pick up the latest issue of Guitar Player. There is a whole section dedicated to just this subject. Good information.

I agree with this statement, it was a good article. If you don't want to read the article then you might try WAH, compressor, Big Muff not in the loop.

 

[bigmondayz]

Sounds like either a **** good article, or you guys both work for guitar player. I'll check it out, thanks for your input

 

[Dusty Rhodes]

Sounds like either a **** good article, or you guys both work for guitar player. I'll check it out, thanks for your input

Indeed.
It convinced me to get a Carl Martin Octaswitch after reading the down- side of Ture Bypass.

 

[Rocky]

Everything in my chain is tru bypass...except for the unit at the very end (a Boss super chorus) and I have NO probs with my sound. I love my setup.

 

[Dusty Rhodes]

Everything in my chain is tru bypass...except for the unit at the very end (a Boss super chorus) and I have NO probs with my sound. I love my setup.

What I had learned is if you have a lot of true bypass effects (lets say 10) and you have a 1 foot cable connecting each one, then you have added 10 feet of cable length to your amplifier. What a switching system does it takes the ones not in use out of the loop thus not creating any line loss. If you have all 10 going then the switcher has a built in buffer (found in non bypass pedals) that will boost the signal thus keeping the signal strength at its maximum. That's basically it.

 

[Rocky]

Yeah, what you quoted is in the GP article.

I was happy to learn that the way I understood True bypass vs. buffered was in line with guys like Pete Cornish and Bob Bradshaw.

I only have 5 pedals and my patch cables are all 6 inches or less so my extra length isnt a lot. I personally dont think it is the extra foot that does anything...I think it is going from cable to the pedal then back into the cable that is the tonesuck.

 

[eventide_awakening]

so i guess a good way to test and see if you have too much cable in a true bypass setup is to just plug directly into your amp and listen for a noticeable improvement?

 

[Dusty Rhodes]

so i guess a good way to test and see if you have too much cable in a true bypass setup is to just plug directly into your amp and listen for a noticeable improvement?

Sounds reasonable to me....

I keep trying to cut back (or out) using external effects and just get back to the basics. But then I find myself saying "well just a little reverb, and maybe a touch of delay, and oh I need a hint of phase"..... and I'm right back into the game again. Oh well.... that's the catch 22 with technology. The more we have the more we want.....

 

[Turumbar82]

Rocky is totally right. My Big Muff was my first pedal and it should always go infront of the amp. So wah, comp, muff, amp. That's weird that your Big Muff sounds "better" in the loop! What are your settings? Personally I was going for a Smashing Pumpkins sound with a Big Muff so I had the sustain high, the tone around 12 and the volume around 12 on a clean channel of whatever amp I was using.

Typically wahs, compressors and distortions are always before the preamp and any modulation or delay based effects are in the loop.

 

[bigmondayz]

I know, it's weird! When the muff is in front of the pre-amp, I can get a million variations of this harsh, crackly, speaker-distortion type of sound, which destroys my tone entirely, and ruins the sustain and reactivity of my guitar. With the muff in the loop, I get a nice volume boost and a warm, creamy, pumpkins esq sound that works almost like a second compressor to increase sustain and bring out the intricacies of my playing without sacrificing any tone. After reading all the responses and perfomring multiple iterations with the pedal at every possible location in my chain, I've decided that I'm definitely right about placing it in the loop and we'll chalk it up to an unknown peculiarity in my rig.

ps - the muff settings are Vol - 5 o'clock, Tone - 1 o'clock, Sustain - 7 o'clock, but unless you run this through my amp those settings probably don't mean anything. My sustain is set very low, it oversaturates quickly, probably because of its placement. It's the NYC muff, maybe this also has something to do with it.

pps - I play in a band in Orlando called "Like Satellites", so if you'd like to hear it first hand, come out and see us sometime

 

[Turumbar82]

Awesome man! Whatever works I guess! lol So I guess you aren't really using your big muff for generating distortion huh? I would like to hear you guys play sometime. Let me know when you have a show.

 

[user 7737]

i thought that the big muff was a fuzz !!! :?

 

[Turumbar82]

The Big Muff isn't really a fuzz. It's more of a bassy fuzzy distortion. As the name is "Distortion/Sustainer"