Dual Rectifier / Boss ES8
- Thread starter Gontur
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It will work with some. Get an amp with a serial loop. The parallel loops in the 2001-2009 models and the Rev. G 2 Channel models will cause issues with phase cancellation at the loop, even at 90% wet. The Reborn, Mini, Verb 25, Roadster, Road King, and 2 Channel Rev C to F are the way to go. A parallel loop modified to be serial will work fine, too.
With any amp, if it has a serial fx loop, the 4 cable method will work just fine.
With any amp, if it has a serial fx loop, the 4 cable method will work just fine.
afu said:
I'd like to chime because I have some issues with my reborn loop.
I owned a 2002 dual rec, and I tried a GT-6 using the 4-cable method. Phase cancellation. I wound up using a boss reverb and boss delay pedal and those were fine. It was explained to me that the a/d-d/a conversion in the GT-6 was the culprit and the pedals didn't have any conversion.
Fast forward, I now own a new reborn with the serial loop and expected any pedal to sound great. First tried an earthquake devices reverb/delay, (awesome pedal btw), and it sounded ok, but I honestly didn't give it much time and prolly only played it for 20 minutes. Then I tried Zoom's MS-70CDR. It's a chorus delay reverb only pedal. Really nice concept. But surprisingly, I got the phase cancellation sound again!. There isn't a global wet/dry setting, only a few of the delays had that option, which didn't make any difference. I tried everything. Mesa said to try the output higher and channel masters for volume, that helped a little but not much. Basically un-usable.
So, I went back to the earthquaker devices pedal.It seemed ok for a while, but recently I turned off the loop with the footswitch, and noticed the slightest, almost barely noticable, change in tone. Not quite phase cancellation sound, but just a tiny bit "colored"
In a noisy bar, it wouldn't even be a thing, but there is a difference. I swapped V4 just to see, but no change.
So I surmise two things:
-The a/d-d/a conversion is still a thing. (even Mesa said that a small amount of dry signal bleeds through due to tube sharing and proximity). I also consider that Zoom pedals may not be high enough quality.
-Pedals in the loop do change the tone ever so slightly.
Kind of frustrating. I'm glad I didn't try a G Major or other high priced unit, only to hear phase cancellation.
Any suggestions or thoughts would be cool
Which version head are you looking at OP?
A pedal with a kill dry feature will fix issues with latency. A G Major has that, I believe. I have my 2007 Recto modded to serial and I don't have issues. Pedals are instrument level devices and don't always work well in a loop, since a loop is line level. Turning down the loop can solve that problem, but it creates a new one, because the power amp loses oomph. Single pedals are really meant for the front end.
For my amp, I turn the Send waaaaaaaaaaaay up and the channel volume waaaaaaaaay down. I leave the loop on all the time and kill the effects at the unit to bypass any issues with levels changing at the amp when the loop goes out. The Nova System effects unit I use has a gain feature for its input. I set it as low as I can while being at unity gain. The combination of all these things makes the amp do the heavy lifting and the effects add less color than if I was jacking the gain on the Nova.
That proximity effect could possibly be due to capacitance on the board, too. Things can bleed over just slightly and my loop does it when Modern is selected. If the components are close to each other for both tubes, shielding one side might improve it, but I'm not sure that's worth the effort or not.
I've noticed the effect you're talking about when the loop is active and turned on or off. That's why I leave mine on and bump the Send up.
Does anyone else have input?
For my amp, I turn the Send waaaaaaaaaaaay up and the channel volume waaaaaaaaay down. I leave the loop on all the time and kill the effects at the unit to bypass any issues with levels changing at the amp when the loop goes out. The Nova System effects unit I use has a gain feature for its input. I set it as low as I can while being at unity gain. The combination of all these things makes the amp do the heavy lifting and the effects add less color than if I was jacking the gain on the Nova.
That proximity effect could possibly be due to capacitance on the board, too. Things can bleed over just slightly and my loop does it when Modern is selected. If the components are close to each other for both tubes, shielding one side might improve it, but I'm not sure that's worth the effort or not.
I've noticed the effect you're talking about when the loop is active and turned on or off. That's why I leave mine on and bump the Send up.
Does anyone else have input?
Gontur said:
It is possible. Instructions and notes can be found from the link in my signature. It takes more time to remove the chassis than to mod the loop.
Also, the things I did with my loop to combat issues were mostly done when the loop was stock. I have to keep it activated now or the amp is silent (the loop switch is now a mute). Some of the explaination for the Send control is on the blog in "Improving the Sound Of A Dual Rectifier When The Loop Is On".
Ok, i'm going to buy a Mesa Roadster (serial fx loop).
Now the problem is:
the Boss ES8 has 3 output jacks (manual says this:"Each of these jacks can accommodate a stereo 1/4†plug (TRS) to make the appropriate connection to the device you’re controlling"). Roadster has 4 channels. Is it possible to use 2 TRS Y cable (TRS to 2 mono plugs)? Doing this I will be able to use 2 ES8 jacks and control 4 roadster channels.
Now the problem is:
the Boss ES8 has 3 output jacks (manual says this:"Each of these jacks can accommodate a stereo 1/4†plug (TRS) to make the appropriate connection to the device you’re controlling"). Roadster has 4 channels. Is it possible to use 2 TRS Y cable (TRS to 2 mono plugs)? Doing this I will be able to use 2 ES8 jacks and control 4 roadster channels.
