Dual Rectifier *Boom*

[Leng]

Okay, so I have an SM57 right up against the grill pointing at the slanted part of the cone catching all the bite the amp dishes out, but it doesn't get even half of the booming body of the tone.

Any suggestions? Another SM57 attacking a different part of a different speaker cone? A condenser mic somewhere? A different preamp? (I use TubeMP Project Series w/ USB)

Thanks in advance!

 

[Silverwulf]

If you're not getting a sound you like with one mic, then likely 2 mics aren't going to solve your problem. Worry about getting one mic sounding good before adding more. A 57 is a great mic for guitar.

Spending more money on another preamp will not do you much good either. You could buy the most high end thing you could find, but you'd spend 99% more than what you have for about 1% difference.

If you like the sound of the amp right now, work on mic placement. Learning which speaker to mic and how to mic your cab will be more valuable than any outboard gear you'll buy.

 

[Platypus]

Are you overdubbing/double tracking your tunes?

 

[chemten]

are you scooping your mids? you aren't going to get the bass you hear at home when the cab is sitting on the floor with a mic. that is what a bass player is for.

 

[Charlie]

I've heard of engineers having their assistant move the mic around (the cab would be isolated so the engineer can only hear the signal from the mic) while he listens to it in the control room. Once the engineer hears the 'sweet spot' he tells the guy to stop moving it around.

Assuming you don't have a control room and an assistant you can do what I've just started doing: make a bunch of short clips with 'notes' as you move the mic around. Just talk into the mic as you move it around and describe the position of the mic as you go along. Later on you can listen to all of your clips and pick the one you like best... if your description is good enough you should be able to replicate it. You can use some tape to mark the spot on your cab so you can always find it again.

The other thing I've heard of people doing is sticking their head right up to the cab while somebody else is playing and find the sweet spot with their ear. Sounds like a good way to damage your hearing to me... maybe this technique would work at lower volumes?

 

[primal]

I've heard of engineers having their assistant move the mic around (the cab would be isolated so the engineer can only hear the signal from the mic) while he listens to it in the control room. Once the engineer hears the 'sweet spot' he tells the guy to stop moving it around.

Assuming you don't have a control room and an assistant you can do what I've just started doing: make a bunch of short clips with 'notes' as you move the mic around. Just talk into the mic as you move it around and describe the position of the mic as you go along. Later on you can listen to all of your clips and pick the one you like best... if your description is good enough you should be able to replicate it. You can use some tape to mark the spot on your cab so you can always find it again.

The other thing I've heard of people doing is sticking their head right up to the cab while somebody else is playing and find the sweet spot with their ear. Sounds like a good way to damage your hearing to me... maybe this technique would work at lower volumes?

+1

What I did was recorded myself playing the same song maybe five times on seperate tracks with different mic positions.

The height of the SM57 I keep mid speaker.

I then recorded track 1 with the mike perpendicular to the speaker cabinet (aimed straight ahead) with the mic positioned on the outer most edge of the speaker. I then recorded myself playing that song on the first track.

I then move the mic towards the center of the speaker approximately 1 inch (the diameter of the sm57 head) while keeping it aimed straight ahead and recorded the same song on the very next track.

I did this over and over till the mic was close to the center of the speaker.

The beauty of this is as you play back, you can switch back and forth between the tracks and hear the difference instantly, becuase you are playing the same peice.

For me my sound dialed in about two inches from the edge of the speaker.

But I have a Road King two combo which is open back. I am certian if I was using a close back cabinet I would have to get a little closer to the center.

 

[primal]

I've heard of engineers having their assistant move the mic around (the cab would be isolated so the engineer can only hear the signal from the mic) while he listens to it in the control room. Once the engineer hears the 'sweet spot' he tells the guy to stop moving it around.

Assuming you don't have a control room and an assistant you can do what I've just started doing: make a bunch of short clips with 'notes' as you move the mic around. Just talk into the mic as you move it around and describe the position of the mic as you go along. Later on you can listen to all of your clips and pick the one you like best... if your description is good enough you should be able to replicate it. You can use some tape to mark the spot on your cab so you can always find it again.

The other thing I've heard of people doing is sticking their head right up to the cab while somebody else is playing and find the sweet spot with their ear. Sounds like a good way to damage your hearing to me... maybe this technique would work at lower volumes?

+1

What I did was recorded myself playing the same song maybe five times on seperate tracks with different mic positions.

The height of the SM57 I keep mid speaker.

I then recorded track 1 with the mike perpendicular to the speaker cabinet (aimed straight ahead) with the mic positioned on the outer most edge of the speaker. I then recorded myself playing that song on the first track.

I then move the mic towards the center of the speaker approximately 1 inch (the diameter of the sm57 head) while keeping it aimed straight ahead and recorded the same song on the very next track.

I did this over and over till the mic was close to the center of the speaker.

The beauty of this is as you play back, you can switch back and forth between the tracks and hear the difference instantly, becuase you are playing the same peice.

For me my sound dialed in about two inches from the edge of the speaker.

But I have a Road King two combo which is open back. I am certian if I was using a close back cabinet I would have to get a little closer to the center.

 

[Silverwulf]

You can use some tape to mark the spot on your cab so you can always find it again...

You mean like this? 8)

I just left the tape on my cab, even suggesting sound engineers at shows just mic up the cab there for me.

 

[Core9]

Are you running a compressor after the mic? How are you setting any tone shaping knobs/controls? Have you tried an exciter like BBE, etc. Those things are very nice at adding life to your sound. I run a BBE 362NR in my stage rack with my Triaxis/2:90 and love it.

Also try this;
Play the amp/cab like you normally would just standing in front or off angle until you hear the tone you like hitting your ears. Then place a second mic in that exact spot. Record both mics at the same time and blend them together. A lot of that boomy tone comes from the cab and the room itself, not exactly the speaker cone. Think outside the box.

 

[camsna]

The truth is - different mics sound different! So, while I agree that you should get your 57 (great cab mic!) sounding great...you should ALSO add another mic. Like a Sennheiser MD-421. It's much darker. Get the 'boom' you want out of that and then mix the two together. Be careful about phase cancellation - you may have to invert the phase of one mic if they're close to one another.

 

[Leng]

Well, I spent many hours finding the sweet spot for my SM57 by making many recordings in different positions and the tone I've found is great, I didn't mean to give the impression that I'm not ready to add another mic. I am. My SM57 already sounds right and it sounds good - like my Mesa. It's just not as bold and as fat as I'd like it to be.

I may very well buy the mic that Camsa recommended and use it in the way that Core9 suggested. I have the feeling that a little room ambiance is what I'm missing. I had also never heard of an "exciter", I wanted to find some prices for the 362NR, but evidentially it's not sold at any of the musician websites I trust.

Primal, when I read your advice... I actually didn't try very many positions where the mic was perpendicular to the cabinet's mesh. I always kinda assumed the mic should be pointed perpendicular to the slope of the cone wherever on the cone it's pointing... Should I try more positions that aren't perpendicular to the cone but instead to the mesh or did you mean the cone?

And yes, I can get a more lush tone by double tracking with different mic positions / DR settings, but this is cheating in my book. :wink:

 

[Core9]

New BBE 362NR :wink:

 

[alex1564]

If your cab has an opening in the back you can mic the front of the speaker and the back of the speaker, then adjust the mix of the two mics. The back and front have different sounds, so you can get lots of cool combinations.

 

[Core9]

If your cab has an opening in the back you can mic the front of the speaker and the back of the speaker, then adjust the mix of the two mics. The back and front have different sounds, so you can get lots of cool combinations.

Be cautious though, there will be phase cancellation happening if you do it this way.

 

[Silverwulf]

I personally don't like the BBE's or similar products. I think they put a crappy coating on your tone that cheapens the sound. again, just my opinion...YMMV of course.

I think I disagree with your assessment of you finding the sound you wanted with the 57. You said..."Well, I spent many hours finding the sweet spot for my SM57 by making many recordings in different positions and the tone I've found is great...", but then went on to say "...it's just not as bold and as fat as I'd like it to be." So, I'm of the mindset that if the tone you've gotten so far was really great, you wouldn't view it as needing to be fatter and bolder...

I really think working with one mic first and getting a sound that you enjoy and think is great overall (aka - fat and bold enough) will serve you better than trying to add a lot of other variables in. If you're having trouble getting a fat and bold sound with one mic, then it will likely be more difficult and frustrating finding a delicate balance of two mics that will work better for you. Again, just my $0.02 here.

 

[camsna]

If you decide to get another mic. You might want to try an Audix-i5.. I get more bass tones out of mine. It's not as centrally focused as my sm57.

+1. I prefer it to the 57!

In fact. I use an i5 and a 421.

 

[twohailmarys]

i have my own home studio and for the longest time i would record with a 57 in the "sweet spot", but i was never really 100% happy with the tone i was getting. i recently was turned on to cascade mics. i got a fat head ribbon mic from them that was really cheap. i found that placed pretty much anywhere on the speakers or in the room was alot better than the tone i was getting from a 57. but mostly i like it about a foot and a half back pointed at the center of a speaker.

 

[Leng]

I really appreciate all of you taking the time to give me some advice.

I guess I'll just spend a lot more time moving the mic around.

My recto sounds as good as your guys' recordings in RL. I just get the feeling that even if I find a spot sweeter than the one I'm using now, my recordings still won't be nearly close to the same vicinity as your recordings.

I'm definitely looking into that Audix I5.

You've answered all my questions, but I have one more for you.

I'm using this for my preamp and audio interface, and it's single channel. If I were to want to add another mic to my recording process, would it be "ok" for me to send both mics to a mixer, and send the mixer's out to the preamp? Or would this be silly?

 

[camsna]

Learning how to mic your cab to sound as good on tape as it does in real life takes a LOT of time. It is tough to do!!!

Don't give up. Spend a lot of time finding the sweet spot. And - recording it in a big room helps, too!

 

[Charlie]

Btw this page is a good reference for different mics:

http://www.electrical.com/class.php?page=microphones

It's part of an equipment page from Electrical Audio - Steve Albini's studio.