Does my 5150 head have more distortion than my Triple recto?

[tele_jas]

Is it my ears or does my new ('94 model) stock 5150 head have more distortion than my Triple Rectifier?? I thought the rectifier series was supposed to be the top dawg for distortion? I have my distortion cranked up all the way on my boogie and on my 5150 is only set at it about 2/3 the way up and I'm thinking of backing it off some more. Is this normal or is something up with my rectifier? I put new preamp tubes in it about a month ago too, so it isn't that.

I like the tones I'm getting from the rectifier better, they sound warmer and fuller and can sound more "modern" but just don't have the extra "over the top" distortion the 5150 has. It hasn't lost anything I'm pretty sure, but just wondering.
:?:

 

[Inearthed]

I personally own 2 block letter 5150's and I love the tone out of them. At the same time, I also love my 2 channel Triple Rectifier. Each of them do different things better. Since I got my Triple Rec and got both of my 5150's working, I've not used my Powerball since...

Additionally. I agree that it seems that the gain in the 5150 is quite high. Honestly, I never run it over 1:00 (about 6) just because I never need more gain than that!

 

[NoGlassNoClass]

I have my distortion cranked up all the way on my boogie

Thats the problem right there...too much saturation. Try backing the gain off to about 2:30-3:00 and turn the presence and channel master up a bit. You will get massive distortion with a lot better clarity.

 

[SteveP]

I get a much heavier and tighter distortion out of my 5150 head boosted with a TS9.

Like someone said the Mesa distortion is good just different. I have a dual rectifier. While I like the 5150 for metal, the mesa works best for everything else.

 

[no soul]

your 5150 will distort faster than a tri rec, thats because of something called headroom. In other words you have to make it louder to get the same levels of distortion as a model with lower power.

As far as either one of them having enough distortion, you shouldnt need to crank the gain all the way to the max. I dont care what style of music you are playing. At that point you are doing nothing but creating massive saturation, begging for feedback, beating the **** out of your pre amp tubes, and literally loosing tone.

 

[Demon Cleaner]

Don't you think it is the opposite?
The 5150 has 100 watts and the triple rect. has 150 watts? I would say the triple has more headroom, I mean, it just seems more plausible to me.

Another thing, volume of amps, bold/spongy settings and such we don't know. I think it is a matter of setting the amp up right.


Edit: Now I get it... it's too early in the morning for me (european time)

 

[Grandor]

Don't you think it is the opposite?
The 5150 has 100 watts and the triple rect. has 150 watts? I would say the triple has more headroom, I mean, it just seems more plausible to me.

Another thing, volume of amps, bold/spongy settings and such we don't know. I think it is a matter of setting the amp up right.


Edit: Now I get it... it's too early in the morning for me (european time)

Correct the 5150's 120 watts will have less clean headroom than the triple recto's 150watts.

 

[guitardude212]

all said are correct, but you are also forgetting that if you are going for pure distortion in your rig, so buy some 300 watt line 6 solid state amp.
rectifiers do perform much better at higher volumes, and the EQ most likely has something to do with it too.

 

[tele_jas]

so buy some 300 watt line 6 solid state amp

No Way!!! I've been there already with a HD147 and then the Vetta II. My Boogie blows them all away!

My Boogie is fine on the distortion, I was more or less just looking for a comparison on the two amps (5150 vs recto) to see if there is a big difference. I also use my boogie on the "Vintage" setting and not the "Modern", thats probably part of the reason I don't have that extra gain I'm thinking about - There may be more gain on the modern setting, but I don't like the modern for leads. I may expieriment with it some more at the next few gigs to see what I can find.

On a side note, Line 6 stuff is nice but it's not Boogie, or for that fact Peavey (5150) either. I guess I like the "real" stuff with the real tubes.... there is a difference. :wink: I have a PODxt that I use at home for recording and it does a great job and it doesn't disturb the neighbors ... But when I go to a studio I take the Boogie and use for 75% of the tracks and the PODxt and/or the 5150 for the rest.

 

[Dale B.]

Aside from the differences in the headroom department, the 5150 has more preamp gain stages that aid in preamp saturation than the Triple Recto, Dual Recto or any Recto. The 5150 has 6 gain stages. There is a resistor that follows the 3rd gain stage to tame it down just a tad to keep it from falling all over itself. The 5150 doesn't have a Cathode Follower before the Tone Controls. The EQ is fed high impedance signal from the plate of the 6th gain stage. It isn't fed a low impedance signal from the cathode of a cathode follower.

The Rectos have 4 gain stages that aid in preamp saturation (distortion) and they have a Cathode Follower.

A lot of people probably see in their Mesa manuals where it says the Rectos have 5 gain stages. From a technical standpoint, a regular Dual or Triple Recto has 10 gain stages and the Tremoverb would have 12 gain stages, but there are only 4 gain stages within that preamp that are creating the preamp distortion. A cathode follower doesn't generate preamp distortion.

So, aside from the differences in headroom, the 5150's preamp has more preamp gain stages aiding in distortion.

Lastly, power amp distortion is minute to a certain point. 85% of the saturation/distortion that you will hear from any amplifier will be generated from the preamp. In some designs it could all be coming from the preamp. If you are getting power amp breakup, it isn't even the same amount of distortion that AC/DC uses on all of their albums. Speaker breakup is also figured into "power amp distortion".

Dale

 

[no soul]

Don't you think it is the opposite?
The 5150 has 100 watts and the triple rect. has 150 watts? I would say the triple has more headroom, I mean, it just seems more plausible to me.

Another thing, volume of amps, bold/spongy settings and such we don't know. I think it is a matter of setting the amp up right.


Edit: Now I get it... it's too early in the morning for me (european time)

The tri rec does have more headroom, which is exactly my point.
You need to crank it even more to get some powertube clipping.


and yes, definitely turn down the gain!

 

[Modern Red]

I think if you're nitpicking about the availability of GAIN in Rectos, you have a problem.

I'm a gain freak, and I never use more than 3:00 on the Red channel. The 5150s have more gain as it's probably the only amp that mushes out past 6 1/2.

I like the tone of both amps, the Mesa being smoother and bigger sounding, while the 5150 being thicker and gridier with more midrange.

 

[Adam]

I own both a 5150 head and a Road King head, and after one quick a/b through the same cab it was pretty easy to declare a winner in terms of useable gain (IMO).

The 5150 is really good at it's one trick, which is super-tight and focused buzz-saw gain. Like others have said I find it pretty much unuseable even for leads anywhere past 1:00. It also seems to have a lot of fuzz (too much for my tastes) in the top-end.

The RK is really good at pretty much everybody's tricks. It may not have QUITE as much total gain on tap (it's darn close) but what it does have retains musicality well beyond the actual amount of audible, useable distortion available from the 5150.

I still really like my 5150 and will probably keep it around as a back-up, but my heart belongs to another...

 

[tele_jas]

No more 5150, so I guess this doesn't matter any more... I sold it to get a Rectoverb, but I think I just got scammed at harmony-central.com!!! Paid via paypal and haven't had any luck getting a ship date from the guy, or a picture of the amp... I have a VERY bad feeling about this!!

I've already contacted Paypal (2 days ago) and haven't heard from the guy yet! I hope he's just out of town and this is a big mis-understanding but I don't think it is. I'll keep you all posted! $650 is too much to just let go, so I'll be working on this for a while if I don't get the amp.