does Mesa make an amp for old-school thrash?

[carlos]

hey I've got some yen saved up and I'm wanting to buy a 100% tube amp rig. I play thrash metal from the 80s, like Testament, Exodus, King Diamond, Metallica, Megadeth, Annihilator, etc. My guitar is a custom shop Ran Invader with EMG 81 at the bridge and 60 at the neck.

I like that tight 'n punchy rhythm chunk with chest-slamming bass...but clarity and pick articulation, NO MUSH or MUD. and a good lead tone with miles of sustain and thickass harmonics. am I asking for too much? :twisted:

I like the idea of the Triaxis and 2/90 setup, but can this rig deliver the high-gain thrash tones? should I be looking at a half-stack instead...Mark IV or Recto, perhaps?

thanks

 

[Platypus]

You should check out a Mark IV for sure.

 

[Elpelotero]

look up any of the Marks. Mark2c+ (what metallica used) all the way to Mark4. Mark4 is the only one in production right now. Others you must buy used. Mark2c+ are the best ones, but are very rare and very very expensive (about $3000 US). The Mark4 will give you about 90%-95% of the C+ tone and lots more options as well.

You should steer clear of the rectifiers based on what you talked about. They won't be tight and will give you some lack of articulation (mud).

 

[Guitarted]

Anthrax (Spitz did but Scott Iam used JCM 800's) and Exodus both played Mark III's back in the day. Their good friends named Hetfield and Hammett turned them onto them.

 

[oyster]

look up any of the Marks. Mark2c+ (what metallica used) all the way to Mark4. Mark4 is the only one in production right now. Others you must buy used. Mark2c+ are the best ones, but are very rare and very very expensive (about $3000 US). The Mark4 will give you about 90%-95% of the C+ tone and lots more options as well.

You should steer clear of the rectifiers based on what you talked about. They won't be tight and will give you some lack of articulation (mud).

Especially with really hot pickups, you will lose articulation.
Elpelotero, what is it you really love about your rectifiers then?
Just curious. I have a roadster and really like it quite a lot. The cleans are really good as well as the other stuff!

 

[eaeolian]

You *can* get good thrash tones out of a Recto, it just takes some dialing. I recommend using a 3 channel Triple and a traditional cab with C90s if you go that route...

The TriAx/2:90 rig would be fine, too. Any Mark series will get you a more "classic" thrash tone, and a lesser-known option is a .50 Caliber + w/EQ - they're very Mark-ish, and I've been able to dial up some very "Bay Area" tones with the one I use at rehearsal...

 

[Elpelotero]

Especially with really hot pickups, you will lose articulation.
Elpelotero, what is it you really love about your rectifiers then?
Just curious. I have a roadster and really like it quite a lot. The cleans are really good as well as the other stuff!

well, i love modern music and classic rock almost equally. My plans are to get a Mark2c+ in the near future, money permitting. I'm selling some of the rectifiers and keeping only one of them.

 

[siggy14]

I do not agree, you can get a thrash sound out of a recto, however you just cant max the gain, and use a OD in front of it to tighten it up. Like said by mike, use the c90's or you could also try the celestion 75's.

look up any of the Marks. Mark2c+ (what metallica used) all the way to Mark4. Mark4 is the only one in production right now. Others you must buy used. Mark2c+ are the best ones, but are very rare and very very expensive (about $3000 US). The Mark4 will give you about 90%-95% of the C+ tone and lots more options as well.

You should steer clear of the rectifiers based on what you talked about. They won't be tight and will give you some lack of articulation (mud).

Especially with really hot pickups, you will lose articulation.
Elpelotero, what is it you really love about your rectifiers then?
Just curious. I have a roadster and really like it quite a lot. The cleans are really good as well as the other stuff!

 

[Russ]

I agree. I play thrash and it sounds good coming out of my Mark IV.

Other tube amp heads that I own are a 1977 JMP MkII Master Volume (later known as a 2204), 1988 JCM800 2210 (the post 87 2205 and 2210 really nail the sound), Ampeg VL-501 (way underrated and is one hell of an amp). I would say that the JMP is a great lead amp but not necessarily a great thrash rhythm amp. It has miles of sustain and thick harmonics. The 2210 just chugs like no other and well, go try one... I was sad when they made the 900s and discontinued these. The VL-501 was Lee Jackson's creation for Ampeg. It is basically a hotrodded Marshall with some neat little features. The VL-502 and VL-1002 are more versatile but the VL-501 is all you really need. The combo version of the amp the VL-503 is like a Mark IV but runs EL-34s or 6550s and something to consider if you do not have the $ for a Mesa.

I honestly feel that if you want tight punchy and chest slamming then you want to stay clear of the EL-34s no matter what you get. 6550s are better in Marshalls with KTs (88s) being the ultimate in slamming you off a brick wall fun. In the Mark IV, try to stick with the 6L6s too. The El-34s take away some of that clarity that you need because they start to break up too early.The 6550s in the VL sound great. Also remember to watch your preamp gain levels no matter what you get because you may overstep your needs in trying to get there too fast. Thrash is all about technique and keeping the pick attack fast and clean though using a lot of muting. Also don't forget that though it may sound cool at home to scoop your mids you will get lost in the mix in a bad setting. Even Hetfield says that they only take a little of the mids out. His prescription goes for bass enough until it begins to mud then back it out a little. Then highs go up till they begin to get ice picky then take it back a little. Mids are about 4 or so with certain frequencies lowered by a mic that has an eq after then played back. If you want that early Metallica sound look to an Jose Arrendondo modified Marshall 1959. That is the amp that Kirk had that was the primary recording amp for the first couple albums and is still being used on occasion to record. Though this is a Mesa board it is my firm belief that in order to get a certain sound you must use the gear that makes it. In the case of thrash, it was inevitably Marshall. I have old magazines that basically showed the thrash artists using primarily Marshalls. I was around then and physically saw most of them and they were using Marshalls. Metallica switched to Mesa as did many others but the amps that they are using now didn't exist then and don't exactly sound the same either (good or bad). So take it for what it is worth, I owned a 2210 before I owned a Mark IV. I still prefer the 2210 at times. I also still prefer the VL-501 at times. Other times I am in love with my Mark IV. I will never dislike the sound of that JMP though. That old Marshall lead tone coupled with my Les Paul put me in heaven.

 

[carlos]

thanks for all the replies! okay, I got good news and bad news. good news is I found the ultimate amp for my style; bad news is that it's not a Boogie here's what happened. I went to a Boogie dealer in L.A. and tried out various Mesa heads: Dual and Triple Recto, Road King Series II, and the Mark IV. they didn't have any Stilettos or F series in stock.

okay I didn't like the Recto stuff at all. loud and good thick crunch, but too dark and grainy sounding to my ears. would make an awesome amp for death metal, imo. the Road King sounded similar, although the Brit mode on channel 2 had an ultra-cool Marshall vibe to it. but this amp had way too many bells and whistles for me...I got a headache just looking at the front and rear panels :shock: also, the Rectos and RK sound really loose with some flabby low-end to my ears. the dealer switched from the Recto 4x12 to a Stiletto 4x12 and the whole tone really tightened up considerably.

then I tried the Mark IV with the Stiletto 4x12. awesome clean tone!!!!!!!! perfect for those Testament and Metallica song intros. the crunch channel was cool but nowhere near metal territory. and the lead channel was smokin :shock: :twisted: even with the knobs at noon I got a jawdropping solo tone. I think I bashed through every metal solo that I've learned. I was almost ready to whip out my debit card, but...then I tried to dial in a really good rhythm crunch tone. I had a helluva time. it was like pulling teeth trying to dial in the CHUG and CHUNK factor with out getting the fart bass. the dealer explained that all the tone controls on the Mark IV are located before the preamp distortion and he showed me how to use the graphic EQ to "put the bass back in" later in the signal chain. this helped somewhat, but one thing I never liked about graphic EQ's is that you can't really boost one freq and leave the rest flat, if you know what I mean. so I experimented with different shapes and, of course, the classic "V" setting gave me the best results. but I'm not too crazy about the scooped mid sound (I know, I know...I play thrash but I like some mids in my chunk! 8))

also, every little nudge on one knob would affect all the other knob settings...am I making any sense here? the dealer explained that all the controls on the Mark IV are interactive and very sensitive. this is no f'ing joke!!!!!!!! :shock: and it drove me batty. the Mark IV is also full of bells and buttons and switches and whistles, and I think I could spend hour after hour tweaking and twirling knobs. I don't really like that cause I'm not really a tweaker. I guess I'm sort of a plug 'n play guitarist. so in the end, I decided to wait and come back to try the amp again with fresh ears.

then....on my way out the door, the dealer stopped me and said he an amp that I might like instead: the VHT Pittbull Ultra-Lead. :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: that's all I can say. it's exactly the type of metal tone I was looking for. and sooooo easy to dial in. it's not as refined..errr "pretty" (can't think of the right adjective) sounding as the Mark IV but my god it makes up for it in tightness, punch, articulation, and the most chest-slamming tightest bottom-end I've ever heard. the clean channel is loud and does not break-up at ANY volume...a perfect 10 in my book. the rhythm channel has enough gain and chunk to play any style of metal you can think of. and the lead channel...so vicious, so articulate, so much sustainnnnnnnnnnnnnnn, and no compression, I mean ZERO, nada!!! no compression or "sag" to the tone and response like every other tube amp I've played. the VHT is definetely not for every taste, but I'm really loving it's agressive tone and vicious bite. I bought the head and the VHT "Fat Bottom" 4x12.

now I'm thinking....
- VHT Pittbull for clean and rhythm crunch
- Mark IV for leads
have both heads wired into a CAE Amp Switcher going into a single 4x12. PERFECT RIG!!! :twisted:

thanks again for your replies!
carlos