Does anyone else think the Royal Atlantic is small sounding?

[danyeo1]

EDIT. Shut my reverb off and noticed it sounded much better. Not sure if there's an issue or not but I'll just stick with a Timeline in the loop anyhow since it sounds great there.


I think the Royal sounds good and I like it. I'm playing it on a Bogner 4x12 so it doesn't get much better than that. The Royal has a decent amount of gain and a killer clean. But when I A/B it against other amps it's like going from stereo to mono, or 3d to 2d. The Royal sounds...narrow or concentrated. I almost makes my 4x12 sound like a 1x12. One thing that helped was hooking up a Thiele 1x12 next to the 4x12.

Now, if I sit and play the Royal for 20-30 minutes I get used to it and I don't notice anything out of the ordinary, but then I plug in my Electra Dyne into the same cabinet and the Electra Dyne sounds twice as big as the Royal with TONS more bottom end. I boost the snot of the Dyne with a BB Preamp so gains levels are comparable. This is the 2nd Royal I've owned and my friend owned one and they have all sounded the same. If the Royal was my only amp I don't think I would notice it that much but when comparing it against other amps it comes off as really small sounding. In a band mix it did cut pretty well but it didn't push air like other amps either. For leads and clean the Royal IS great but for rhythm.......?

I am using it usually with the soak off.

 

[J.J]

I know what you mean. The vintage low emphasises it most. There seems to be a a bit of a gap between the lower mids and bass with the tone concentrated in the upper mids. It could be what people refer to as the Mesa nasal sound. I only really notice t when I compare to other amps.

After playing the RA for a while the ED sounds a bit dull and bloated in the bass, but if I play the ED for a while the ED sounds good again

The RA has been my main amp now for 18 months and with the band I can always get a good classic rock rhythm tone, but I have to pay attention to the main controls, bass , mid, treble and gain. If I don't get the balance right I end up with a thin sound which is quite obvious as it cuts so well in the upper mid range.

 

[CoG]

My experience is that if you are using the RA with the soak off you need to crank it pretty hard to get a lively tone. The un-soaked RA is a LOUD and very bright amp. The soak's not just there for volume control, it's a tonal tool that lets you control those loud/bright characterstics.

Vintage Lo is definitely thin-sounding on its own at anything less than foundation-cracking volume. However, if you're recording it, you'll find that it's the easiest EQ job ever - it just slots right in, you don't need to cut anything. The other amp I record a lot with is a JCM800 and I find that I can always get the Marshall sounding better, solo, in the room and the RA sounds better on the track or once everyone else starts playing.

All that said, the RA's not ever going to make you **** your pants from bass without putting an EQ in the loop.

I have also found that for my taste, anything sounds better than V30s with the RA. V30s are great for tightening and brightening dark, bassy amps, which the RA isn't. Not sure what's in your Bogner box. I have a Recto 4x12 with a couple EMI RWBs and a couple of original EVM12s in an X and it sounds killer, it's mostly the very hifi EVM sound with some grit from the RWBs.

But last - the reverb circuit in this amp sucks balls and destroys tone. I think I used it for about an hour when I first got the amp, realized it was never going to sound good, and called it a day. So, yeah, leave that thing off. Mesa, if you're reading, you have to know the reverb in this amp is a dog - or at least it is on mine, I think my serial is #368 and I bought it new in August '11, so it's pretty early.

 

[bandit2013]

I would agree with the reverb issue. I found it works better if it is dialed down but not turned off. Too much reverb seems to compress the tone considerably. I have tried different tubes in V6 that are better suited as current drivers than 123ax7. Jan/GE 5157 did a good job but the reverb will never sound as lush as it does on a Mark V. I have had a few Mark amps, Mark III the reverb was lacking also had a smaller tank than the Mark IV. The Mark IV, RA100 and Mark V (along with a few other amps use the same tank). It is all in the driver circuit that makes a difference. I even tried the other tanks from my Mark V and Mark IV and it made no difference. I may consider a 12AT7 in V6 to see if there is a notable difference. It seems that the V6 driver saturates early with a 12ax7. I do like the SED EL34 in the amp. I have tried other tubes and they just do not seem to have that edge that I was looking for. The clean channel is a bit on the fat side, so using a bright tube that does not have deep tones seems to help (EH12ax7 in v4 and v5) but the Hi/Lo channel was lacking the bass, Tung Sol in V1 and V2 brings out the deeper tones. I am still not done with my tube quest on the RA100, so far I like the tone and character with what I have now. In all three of my Mesa Amps, the only Mesa 12ax7 I am using are the old Chinese 12ax7-A that I bought long ago and changed out every 3 to 4 months of use when I burned through the EL34 during the band days with my Mark III. I am glad I kept them as spares in case I needed them. They sound great in the RA100 but only have a limited number of them that are any good which are now in the Mark V.

Also, as is the case with v30's, if you are not directly in front of the speaker cabinet, it will sound thing. That speaker does not spread out evenly. I did try channeling though a single Fane Studio 12L that I have stuffed in my Mark IV. That particular speaker sounds thin if you are too close to the amp but stand back, the sound is projected outward due to its shallow cone. V30, you need to be standing in the beam to notice. A Thiele cab may help matters. V30 speakers sound good with the RA100, but I am sure there are better alternatives. I am only using the V30 since they were freebies ( I pulled them out of my Rectifier cab in favor of something better for use with the Mark V). EVM12L just does not do it for the RA100. It seems that the smaller voice coil brings out the tones of the RA vrs the 2" voice coil of the EV or Fane. Perhaps a mix of the two would work.

 

[bandit2013]

After posting, I was playing through the RA100 and experimenting with different settings.
Just for kicks this is what I have in it.
V1, V2: Tung Sol 12ax7
V3: RFT 12AT7 (I was picking up serious hum with the stock tube even though it is bypassed, changing the tube cured the noise)
V4, V5 : EH12ax7
V6: Pental Labs 12ax7 (Chinese)
V7: Sovtek LPS
Power tubes: SED =c= EL34

Speakers: traditional sized cabinet with Mesa supplied v30 (speakers came from my 412 rectifier cab), the cabinet itself was a clearance item I got at GC (Egnator came equipped with 16ohm celestion speakers now in storage).

This amp does not sound thin at all if the proper settings are applied. Basic design of this amp without the power soak will not force the power tubes into saturation unless you can tolerate the high volume. I wanted to darken the Hi/Lo channel and the TS seemed to do the trick. As for the clean channel, it seems dark enough and the EH brightens it up a bit. There may be better tubes for V4 and V5. Something about the Mesa (JJ) tubes lead it into fizzy tones with the clean channel. I have rolled many tubes though this amp for the best overall sound. Most tubes did not make much of a difference. The reverb is not as lush as it could be, but when it is dialed down and not saturated the amp sounds great. It is quite a different amp than a Mark series amp or Rectifier amp. The lo channel voice can really get some bite. I could only wish the Crunch mode CH2 of my Mark V sounded this good. Hi voice, I think sounds better than the Mark IV setting. I basically bought the RA100 for classic rock tones, and it delivers with accuracy. When I am in the mood for blues or a jazzy tune, the clean channel delivers, even early 60's tone can be achieved with a single coil guiltar. However, if you want a dry clean channel that closely sound like an acoustic, this amp will not get you there. (Mark V and Mark IV are very capable for this area). I definitely will be getting the Flux Drive with EQ when it becomes available. I could preorder it but would rather wait. However, I did play around with a cheesy Boss ME-70 (which did not sound all that bad) and the distortion/over drive settings on the clean, Hi/Lo channels. Who needs a Marshall JVM410, with just a bit of overdrive/distortion in front of the RA100 you have everything you need. This amp does not sound thin at all. If you are like me and have a few amps in your possession, when you compare to other amps, things may sound different. If I begin my sessions on the RA100, and move over to the Mark V I feel the V is too compressed. Hard to compare the two since they do not share similar output topographies. The RA100 is perfect for my needs. The Mark V is also perfect for my other needs. I may try to blend them together and hear the response. I have done this with the Mark V and Mark IV with some surprising results.

 

[bandit2013]

After reading this and posting myself, I decided to do some experiments with the RA100.
I did state the tube arrangement I am currently using. When I first got the amp I tried out TAD6L6GC-STR in place of the Mesa EL34 (since it was a used amp, the tubes were questionable to begin with) along with a JJ branded tube in V2 and the 12AT7 must have been the original. The TAD tubes just did not impress me in the RA100. Since I splurged on SED tubes, one quad of 6L6GC and one quad of EL34 (bought them before I got the RA100 for use in the Mark V). I soon found that the SED =C= EL34 to be an amazing tube, if you have not tried them, they are expensive now. One can hope that Sevetlana Electron Devices in St. Petersburg will begin production of consumer tubes again. Back to the thin sounding thoughts, I wondered how the amp would sound with an old set of SED's that I have (Groove Tubes Gold Series relabeled Svetlanas GT6L6R-2). These babies were my first introduction to the SED tubes. (unfortunately after 8 months of hard use they probably sounded better but were still working very strong). The HI gain sounded incredible. Lo was a bit bright and the Clean channel lost that vintage vibe. Same effect as the TAD 6L6 tubes but only sounded better. After installing the SED EL34 and powering up just to hear the difference. RA100 with 6L6 tubes will sound dull or small as it were. Not sure how a quad of 6CA7 will sound. The Gold Lion KT77 are great too. When I tried the EH EL34 in the Mark V, that sounded thin, same tube rebranded by Mesa ( I believe).

 

[Cory]

I don't think it's thin at all. I switched over from a Marshall JVM410h (got a chance to A/B them for about a month at home) and that's one of the reasons I went with the RA-100 - it just sounded so full in comparison. The JVM was just so noisy/squealy - and too bright on the top end. I run my RA-100 with a 2x12 recto cab (V30's) and it think it sounds great. It's definitely fuller in the mids and not very boomy in the bass section. Note: I typically play at lower volumes and I do use the multi-soak option so that I can crank the volume a bit without having to worry about my neighbors calling the cops. I've only cranked it up a few times and I thought it sounded massive - love everything about it, minus the reverb which I just run very subtly on the clean channel.

 

[bandit2013]

I normally run it all out with the Power soak off. However, depending on the tone and gain structure I am after, the power soak can really get you into vintage tones on the clean channel with a bit of clip. After buying this amp, I definitely needed a strat type guitar (in my case a Carvin Bolt C). This is one fun amp I love to play though.

 

[danyeo1]

After comparing the Royal to an Electra Dyne and a Mark III......the Royal went the way of Ebay.

 

[bandit2013]

I enjoyed your clips danyeo1, could not determine which were the ED clips. You have a good sound, awesome talent. Are you only using a POD for your effects?