Do you know much music theory? Find it useful?

[iFreedom]

I've been getting into theory lately after years of playing metal. The more theory I read especial chords and modes the more interesting it is. But, its seems for lead work knowing the basics like the key and chord pattern is more important then simply knowing all boxes of the major scale and shifting around in modes. The more I think when I solo the worse it gets. It's nice to find those target notes that are in your head and try to think ahead with where you want to go.

I suppose if I were more reactive with modes I could control the mood - practice I guess. Bottom line though, you can read all the theory you want, but if yous aint jamming yous aint learning.

 

[YellowJacket]

The 'forgetting' process is such a treat. It is the learning part of things that is hard and unforgiving. I think it is typical to first of all see a perceived 'decrease' in ability while learning something new since there is a lot of new information for the brain to cope with. The good news is that as you internalize new ideas, it only gets easier to execute them. The bad news is that the teens and early twenty-somethings have a much easier time with this than the older ones. (generally speaking) Still, don't let the psychologists tell you what you can and can't learn. People can do a lot more than they think they can, if only they stop worrying and work hard!

 

[Heritage Softail]

I was working thru my Metallica book today as we had a freakin blizzard yesterday and it was all icy. Comparing the lead for The Unforgiven to my lesson material, it was apprent that Hammet is a huge student of the pentatonic scale. Having been drilling and drilling for the last week on two string exercises up and down the neck, it was a huge help in getting that lick worked in. Theory definitely is paying off immediately. I know a drop in the bucket, a very large bucket, but it was cool to be able to see it in action in one of my favorite songs.

Anybody else have a favorite lick that turned out to be totally by the book?

 

[stephen sawall]

All music is "by the book" ..... music theory is only a language to describe sounds. There is no music that can not be described by theory.

The idea some people have that there is rules that can not be broken in theory is only a illusion of people that do not understand the language.

Just like numbers and equations are part of the language of math.

The pentatonic scale is universal ..... it can be found in one mode or a other over the entire planet and history of music. It is the only universal scale.

 

[YellowJacket]

All music is "by the book" ..... music theory is only a language to describe sounds. There is no music that can not be described by theory.

The idea some people have that there is rules that can not be broken in theory is only a illusion of people that do not understand the language.

Just like numbers and equations are part of the language of math.

The pentatonic scale is universal ..... it can be found in one mode or a other over the entire planet and history of music. It is the only universal scale.

Exactly. All music is based off of organizational principals of some sort so the minute anyone creates something, there is a logic behind it that can be explained by Music Theory. The purpose of learning Music Theory is to teach musicians how to think about what they are playing and what makes it work (or not work). It isn't enough to know that something works, one also has to understand why.

The bad news is that the teens and early twenty-somethings have a much easier time with this than the older ones. (generally speaking) Still, don't let the psychologists tell you what you can and can't learn. People can do a lot more than they think they can, if only they stop worrying and work hard!

Grandma Moses didn't start painting til she was in her late 70's.

^____________________^
You wouldn't believe the amount of gum-slapping I have heard because I started Cello at age 25. Never to late to learn something new, I say.

 

[surferdeac]

Yes it is very usefull. I think everybody is different in what he or she wants to achieve as far as music is concerned. If ya want to be able to play sing alongs or folk songs in front of a fire for a couple of friends or a girl then i don't think you'll need to spend 3-4 hrs a night study modal theory along with chord scales and or working with your metronome on your chromatics woking your legato technique through your modes, knowing what key your playing in, etc, etc. that being said i sometimes do this because i have always wanted to learn more than just a couple dylan songs (that is not to say i don't like Dylan )

I have to say that while all this stuff is great, and knowledge is power, as I continue my quest to understand and communicate with other musicians what i am doing as i play guitar, i think the most important part of music is to develope you ear and be able to play things by ear. that is because as you interperet what others are playing by ear you will be able to interperet what you are hearing inside your head that is if you hear music in your head :mrgreen:. : Playing things by ear also helps you develope your own style so that if you are playing other peoples music you are developing your own style as well instead of being a clone of the person you are emulating by either watching how they are playing or reading accurate tablature and or sheet music about music you are learning to play.
I am sometimes guity of these things however (especially with regards to watching what and how others are playing). I guess its good to be able to do both but i digress.

 

[YellowJacket]

People who don't learn theory by ear and compensate by memorizing 'rules' are at a severe disadvantage in my mind. There is no point in learning theory if you don't understand how everything 'sounds'.

A lot of folk songs are modal, btw. . .

 

[stephen sawall]

People who don't learn theory by ear and compensate by memorizing 'rules' are at a severe disadvantage in my mind. There is no point in learning theory if you don't understand how everything 'sounds'.

A lot of folk songs are modal, btw. . .

+1

Just memorizing scale and chord spelling, etc well do someone little good if they do not know what they sound like.

The knowledge and real world applications go hand and hand.

 

[Heritage Softail]

People who don't learn theory by ear and compensate by memorizing 'rules' are at a severe disadvantage in my mind. There is no point in learning theory if you don't understand how everything 'sounds'.

A lot of folk songs are modal, btw. . .

+1

Just memorizing scale and chord spelling, etc well do someone little good if they do not know what they sound like.

The knowledge and real world applications go hand and hand.

That is exactly my reasoning in deciding to pay the $ to take lessons instead of reading a book only. It is great jamming with others of my skill level, but it is different working with someone with MUCH more knowledge/experience.

To the great players, the way to keep music alive is to pass it on. Kinda the way music veterans here put up with noobs like me! :lol: :lol:

 

[YellowJacket]

Anyone use Finale? (for notation)

I'm currently tabbing out a solo for a student and I'm making a template. This is taking so much time that I'd like to send the template to whoever wants it. GRRR!

 

[Heritage Softail]

No but I was thinking of looking for something to tab out songs on my pc instead of the Fred Flintstone method of hammer/chisel/rock. Send info please. Will Lars be hunting me down for illegally using this?

On the music theory/guitar lesson side of things I just got a study sheet of what my guitar teacher calls "Chuck Berry" licks. Been working on those with slight changes. Interesting that they sound very old school played somewhat clean but with more gain and a few tweaks they sound very current. Funny how some of the new stuff is the old stuff with new shoes.

 

[surferdeac]

People who don't learn theory by ear and compensate by memorizing 'rules' are at a severe disadvantage in my mind. There is no point in learning theory if you don't understand how everything 'sounds'.
A lot of folk songs are modal, btw. . .

That is exactly my reasoning in deciding to pay the $ to take lessons instead of reading a book only. It is great jamming with others of my skill level, but it is different working with someone with MUCH more knowledge/experience.
To the great players, the way to keep music alive is to pass it on. Kinda the way music veterans here put up with noobs like me!

PAYING ATTENTION to the sound of what you are playing i think is the key to understanding and becoming more intimate with sounds. not just looking at the fretboard and figuring out a passage of notes, but actually LISTENING to something and working out what you hear. Play MELODIES over some of your favorite guitar players parts try SINGING the melodies to the parts you are playing. Being a good listener goes hand in hand with being a good player. I really have to say the best advice i ever got was to spend a substantial amount of my playing time listening to other peoples music and figuring the sounds out BY EAR. It is also important to record youself and actually listen back to what you are playing. This will also make you a better player because you can really sit back and analyze what you are doing and what you need to work on

 

[YellowJacket]

I think you need both ear training and note reading skills. It is really REALLY helpful to learn incredibly complex music off of sheets, especially at first. Also, with a transcription, it is easy to find little details we will miss. On the flipside, most people who make and read tabs on the internet use tabs to learn music so they don't have good ears. I have found many very inaccurate tabs and charts online and it annoys me.

When I said 'tabbing out' a solo, I should have said 'transcribing' because I did fully notate it. Electric guitar notation is just weird with the notes and rhythms on one staff and the string and fret information below it. Most other musicians don't have that luxury.

 

[Heritage Softail]

Anyone use Finale? (for notation)

I'm currently tabbing out a solo for a student and I'm making a template. This is taking so much time that I'd like to send the template to whoever wants it. GRRR!

Please send me the template. I have some assignments to create a few leads over chord progressions. Would be interesting to try something new for doing that. For the rookie ear development we are working on Blues Turnarounds. Pretty easy to spot/anticipate. Good place to start.

 

[YellowJacket]

You'll need at least finale 2009 or later to run it. All the numbers for the tab are all available under the expression tool. That was how I decided to figure things out. I think there are supposed to be presets (Keyboard shortcuts under the Simple Entry Tool) but in typical finale fashion, they weren't working so I needed to find a workaround. This program can do anything but it is typically a pain in the ass to get it to do so. I had to design the tab line myself by making a custom six line staff but luckily I was able to select 'TAB' as a 'clef' so it really wasn't THAT much work. The rest of the configuration was basically the typical finale setup: getting the measure numbers to display in the right place, making sure they are big enough, having empty measures display no rests, number of measures per system, etc.

http://www.sendspace.com/file/45ashu

 

[Heritage Softail]

Really? The thing sounds moderately f 'd up. Crikey. Any other software you know off hand? Even an excell sheet a brother might have squirreled away?

 

[YellowJacket]

Oh, it works fine now I've made the template. It was just a pain in the butt to configure. It is much more flexible and usable software than a lot of them are.

 

[YellowJacket]

Wonder how many of you guys have seen these videos. Definitely worth watching.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pGTmvB6HU0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfXZr0sP6EM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEWs7XGb_u0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJbvRo2ciYk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4X4jlOGG4s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8Mr9ZQdGAM

This is a great way to procrastinate while working on my 40min Bartok Folk Music Research presentation for this wed.
Also, teaching guitar is a great motivation to keep learning!