Dialing In The Stiletto

[CudBucket]

Hey guys. I spent some time with my Stiletto Trident tonight. I was worried about some low volume fizz I was getting. Then, I activated the Solo and Output controls, moved my Ch. 2 Master to 2:00 and set the Output to taste and things got real creamy and smooth.

So, with Variac on Spongy, 50 watt mode, Tube Tracking, Bass at 12:00, Mids 11:00, Treble 1:30 and gain at 3pm, I had a really brown sound. I was really starting to dig this head.

However, the bottom is a little muddy. I couldn't tighten it up. BTW, I was using Fluid Drive. I'll try more tomorrow but I was wondering what you guys were doing for this.

I was running it through a 2x12 recto cab and my Carvin C66C with Carvin C22 pickups.

Thanks.

Dave

 

[cpepper]

Actually I don't think many people on the board use the fluid drive it impossible to dial out the muddy character of that channel and mode. Look to the sample settings in the setting archive. If you use any of the displayed settings and use the tube rectifier, spongy it will always sound brown and creamy. The fizz comes with bold and silicone diode. To be short the fluid drive is the ******* child of the stiletto.

 

[Silverwulf]

I can't stand the Fluid Drive mode. Sounds like mush to me. The sub-bass and bass frequences are too pronounced to be useful and they come in way to quick on the attack. Makes it too rumbly for rhythm playing, and too mushy to muddy up a mix while playing lead. Luckily, the "Crunch" and "Tite Gain" sound so good it doesn't matter... I like trying to get a heavy sound, so this is how I tend to set my Stiletto as of now...

For a great, thick and bold crunch/metal sound, I will use something equivalent to:

Bold Setting
Silicon Diode
Tite Gain Mode
50W

Treble - 11 o'clock
Mids - 1 o'clock
Bass - 1 o'clock
Presence - 11 o'clock
Gain - 3 o'clock
Volume - 10 to 11 o'clock

I always have my FX Loop switched out, so I only use the channel volume. If I have it switch in, then my channel and master volumes run pretty close to one another, usually around 11 o'clock, or with the channel volume slightly higher than my master.

These settings also work really well on the "Crunch Mode," and give a nice JCM 800 feel to the sound. It's important to note that these settings arn't exact. My knob probably isn't exactly at 11 o'clock. That's as close as I can guess on the dial, and that will slightly change depending on the room I'm in. I also use EMG 81's in my bridge position and play through a Mesa Recto 4X12 (Traditional, Straight) Cab.

 

[Big Mike]

See now, all I like is the fluid drive. the other two settings are too thin for my taste. I dial the gain back to 11 0clock or so, and boost the master.

I just got mine Sat (deuce) and I"m digging it. Had a bit of buyers remorse for awhile, but I think I'm good now. :lol:

 

[Silverwulf]

Try dialing in more mids if you like it "thicker." I think it sounds great on the "Crunch" and "Tite Gain" modes. It's not a thin sound...it just has that sharp EL34 bite to it, and a different voicing in the mids and sub-bass frequencies than amps like the Recto. The bottom end is voiced a lot higher than the Recto, and the mids sweep through a different range of frequences.

 

[Big Mike]

Yeah I did mess a bit, but I never dug the recto stuff. My other EL34 amps have been marshalls, and had much more bottom than those two settings on the deuce.

So far (band practice tomorrow will tell) I cut the bass way back on the fluid drive, and I'm pretty happy.

 

[Silverwulf]

Interesting...I have to dial the bass back on those modes to keep it tight and punchy. Sounds as thick as my JCM 800's always did. I'm glad to hear someone actually likes the Fluid Drive mode... 8)

 

[musicbox]

I dig my fluid drive..alot. crank the mids, dip the bass and treble. by itself its pretty decent, but with the sparkledrive in front it comes alive!

 

[xnfx]

If mids up bass down does'nt work, you can always try and EQ. I hear they work great on that mode.

 

[CudBucket]

Wow, I really like the Fluid Drive mode. In fact that's all I've really played on this amp. I'll spend more time on the other modes to see if the muddy bottom is really a "Fluid Drive Only" issue. If that can get tightened up, this amp would be a great "VH Brown Sound" option. I want to get the tone totally dialed in before I plug my pedal board in.

 

[Silverwulf]

Wow, I really like the Fluid Drive mode. In fact that's all I've really played on this amp. I'll spend more time on the other modes to see if the muddy bottom is really a "Fluid Drive Only" issue. If that can get tightened up, this amp would be a great "VH Brown Sound" option. I want to get the tone totally dialed in before I plug my pedal board in.

It's definitely a Fluid Drive only issue. The other modes and channels are exceptionally tight. The problem with the Fluid Drive mode is that the sub-bass and bass frequencies are too pronounced and come in too quick on the attack, which makes it sound muddy or boomy. When I spoke with Mesa, they completely agreed with me and said that this was one of the major changes they were doing with Series II.

With that in mind, I would try an EQ in the loop, and use it to dial out specific sub-lows from the tone. It will vary per guitar, cab, and player...but I would try dipping out a little somewhere in the 20hz to 200hz range. You'll have to experiment to see which frequencies would work best for you. That will likely tighten the amp up and get rid of the mud.

If I was going for that old VH Brown sound, I'd probably use the "Crunch" mode myself... 8)

 

[Platypus]

Using the bold power setting and the diode rectifier with the fluid drive mode seems to tighten it up a bit more, but still feels muddy to me. I'm still trying this pup out to see if I want to keep it but so far my dual rec with el34l's with a fulltone OCD pedal just slaughters this amp.

 

[Bobbypols]

i liked the fluid drive with rolled back bass and rolled forward pres. and treble, and gain.

 

[CudBucket]

Speaking of diode rectifiers. Is this the same thing as a "clipping diode"? For instance, the Carvin MTS amp has clipping diodes in it. I know some amps don't. I'm just wondering if "clipping diodes" are the same as "diode rectifiers".

Thanks.

Dave

 

[Silverwulf]

I believe that what you're thinking of is clipping diodes added to the preamp. Marshall did the same thing back in the mid-80's to the JCM 800 in order to add more gain into the 800 line of amps. What they do is add clipping diodes in the middle of the tube preamp gain stages. The tubes before the diodes would send the signal to the diodes to be clipped and distorted, then that would go to the tubes afterwards in the preamp stage which helped add a little "tube warmth" to the signal. That's the philosophy behind it, at least. Many people still claimed it made the amps too "cold." I've owned both, and I can say the differences are minimal at best.

That's something different than diodes in the rectifier.

 

[CudBucket]

I believe that what you're thinking of is clipping diodes added to the preamp. Marshall did the same thing back in the mid-80's to the JCM 800 in order to add more gain into the 800 line of amps. What they do is add clipping diodes in the middle of the tube preamp gain stages. The tubes before the diodes would send the signal to the diodes to be clipped and distorted, then that would go to the tubes afterwards in the preamp stage which helped add a little "tube warmth" to the signal. That's the philosophy behind it, at least. Many people still claimed it made the amps too "cold." I've owned both, and I can say the differences are minimal at best.

That's something different than diodes in the rectifier.

Thanks a bunch for the explanation! So, are rectifier tubes/diodes part of the power amp circuit?

 

[musicbox]

No, and...Yes to a degree. They are responsible for the power the amp uses to amplify signals. They convert the AC voltage coming out of the wall into DC. Your computer(along with your TV, Radio, Stereo, coffee machine) has a Diode Rectifier in it converting AC/DC, because it is much more efficient at it's job then the tube recitifiers found in old amps and the recto boogies(along with old tv's, old radios...you get the idea). The poor efficiency of the tube rec makes for the looser, squishier playing feel.

 

[SgtThump]

Personally, I'm finding that rolling the mids back actually thickens the tone. The mid pot seems to control the high mids and cranked it up brightens the amp up to me.

 

[Guitarz_18]

I was just playing my stiletto loud as heck and I found the secret to
getting rid of the ear fatigue. Dial the mids all the way out! The mids
are what is causing the ear fatigue! The amp sounds more Marshall like
with the mids dialed out as well. I also threw the Zakk Wylde MXR over
drive in front of the tite gain and WOW, that's the THE Marshall tone!
The Zakk MXR is great because it doesn't alter the tone at all and is
really designed as a boost to a Marshall preamp, which is exactly
what it does to my Marshalls and my Stiletto.

Very cool, see, just like I keep saying, the Stiletto and me are a love/hate relationship, right now, I'm diggin' it. :wink:

 

[musicbox]

on the contrary dear sir. dialing all the mids out lets loose the buzzy fizz of the top end. it ditches all the midrange which is the only thing the stiletto has going for it, allowing the flubby bottom end and the piecing top end(which is the cause of the beforementioned ear fatigue) to shine like..well, an interogation light at 3 in the mornin when all you want to do is sleep. then again, maybe your setup is different enough that this is the sweet spot.

i find that by boosting the mids, i'm able to compensate for the top end i loose by ditching all the presence and treble to hide the wrath of the piercing and fizzy top end, while adding some cajones to the sound.

again, beauty is in the..ear....of the beholder. enjoy at your own risk!