DC-5 too much treble?

[LSC123]

anyone else find their DC to have too much treble sizzle?

I might be jumping the gun a little because the power tubes in it are really old 420s and 2 of the preamp tubes are old mesa preamp tubes (when i bought it, they threw in 4 new groove tubes so i replaced the first four looking at the back from left to right). But i find the amp to be a little too bright. I've tried it with the stock speaker, and using an external cabinet, and both had the same. If i turn the treble all the way off, and put the two high geq sliders below the mid line, it smooths things out quite a bit, but that seems extreme. tube change?

 

[madryan]

Tubes for sure.

If you're looking at the back of the amp with it sitting right side up then the tubes go right to left, V1-V6. So basically you replaced V6-V3 leaving V1 and V2 which have the most impact on your tone. I've found that running a 5751 rather than a standard 12AX7 sounds great in V1 or a JJ as they're a bit darker tube. My DC is way less trebly than just about anything I've owned. I hate bright amps.

If you're interested I can look up what I'm running but I'm pretty sure it's
V1: NOS Jan GE 5751
V2: JJ ECC83S
V3: Shuguang 9th gen Chinese
V4: Shuguang 9th gen Chinese
V5: Stock Mesa
V6: NOS Jan Phillips 12AT7

For power tubes I'm running Svetlana winged=C= 6L6GC's

I get all my tubes from Dougs Tubes

 

[MusicManJP6]

madryan - What effect did that AT7 have on your gain/tone?

 

[LSC123]

hey ryan.

tried to respond to your PM on the PF but your inbox is full....

I dont know why i did it, but now that i think back, when i replaced them i was looking backwards and didnt put 2 and 2 together. for whatever reason i thought i was replacing 1 through 4. I'm gonna switch em up tonight and see if that makes a difference

 

[madryan]

The 12AT7 is more of a feel thing than a tone thing. To me it makes the amp start clipping the power section faster so you get that wonderful rounded out fat gain sound at a lower volume. For you I'm not sure it'd be worth doing because you've got EL-84's.

 

[MusicManJP6]

The 12AT7 is more of a feel thing than a tone thing. To me it makes the amp start clipping the power section faster so you get that wonderful rounded out fat gain sound at a lower volume. For you I'm not sure it'd be worth doing because you've got EL-84's.

Yep, they already have that 'feeling' whether I like it or not!

 

[madryan]

The 12AT7 is more of a feel thing than a tone thing. To me it makes the amp start clipping the power section faster so you get that wonderful rounded out fat gain sound at a lower volume. For you I'm not sure it'd be worth doing because you've got EL-84's.

Yep, they already have that 'feeling' whether I like it or not!

On a 50 or 100w amp you don't seem to lose much headroom. I love having the 12AT7 in the PI on all my amps. It just seems to be the final element for getting rid of fizz. It makes the amp sound better and more importantly, feel better.

 

[madryan]

hey ryan.

tried to respond to your PM on the PF but your inbox is full....

I dont know why i did it, but now that i think back, when i replaced them i was looking backwards and didnt put 2 and 2 together. for whatever reason i thought i was replacing 1 through 4. I'm gonna switch em up tonight and see if that makes a difference

I cleared my inbox.

In every boogie V1 is closest to the input jack so that's the way I remember.

 

[LSC123]

Swapped the tubes around. Now i have the new GT 12ax7-c's in V1, V2, V3, and V4, and the old (probably really old) mesas in V5, and V6. It certainly is much less piercing than it was before, still a little bit though (compared to how i used to set my Mark IV. Now i have the treble on 5, and the GEQ's 2 right most sliders around the mid line. The Middle slider on the GEQ is super scooped, and the two bass sliders are set in the usual Classic V shape. I have the bass knob on 2.5, and the mids set around 4 with gain around 8 and presence at zero (this is all set for a night tight high gain rhythm, i boost with a pedal for leads).

I'm going to replace V5 and V6 probably this weekend, and then probably pick up a set of 440's to replace the old 420s.

We'll see how it goes after all of that!

 

[bigjav]

Could you, please, tell me more about these 440s and 420s of power tubes? I don't know the Mesa stuff and would like to change my old JJ in my DC-3, so I will appreciate any kind of info?

Thanks!

 

[Casper]

If I may, LSC, I would suggest taking the graphic out (cut it off) and try things with out it. I am a newer DC owner myself and had a similar problem with low-end bloom. According to the manual, the Treble pot is the most influential of all tone controls and they suggest moderation as Mesa's eq pots are interactive with one another. I cut the GEQ out during the last set last weekend and it woke the amp up considerably. I bought a JJ tone package from eurotubes.com and the amp is dead quiet and powerful now. If nothing else, at least put a JJ 12ax7 in V1. Once I get my clean tone dialed in I may introduce the GEQ back in on the lead channel, which right now I am still struggling not to sound to metal right now..
just my .02
Shaun

 

[LTE]

How loud are you running it?

I recently really figured out my DC5, as i was always either (ok, or meh tone), but when i started playing louder it sounded better and better.

With the output on 4-5 and my attenuator taking it down to as if the the amp was on 2 normally the classic v really shines, whereas when i played it on real low volumes, the mids are way too scooped, the bass is woofy and the treble is too shrilly. But when its relatively loud, the eq seems to mold together and the mids are juicy and the treble is still prominent but gets very smooth. And to go into eric johnson territory i just drop the last eq freq right under the middle to get even more smooth treble.