DC-3 mod possible for more metal gain and presence?

[LEVEL4]

I heard someone here mention that the DC-3s are easy amps to mod. I just got a Mark IV, so now I don't really know what to do with my DC-3 anymore. It doesn't have quite enough gain to be a good metal amp. It's a great amp, but as it is, it's just not for me, unless there's some kind of IIC+ kinda mod possible for it.

 

[fdesalvo]

Hi again. I can't remember, is your DC-3 the combo or head? Speakers make all of the difference with these amps- have you played yours through a nice 4x12? I think you'd be suprised at how saturated these amps sound though nice cabs. Honestly, the DC-3 has a crushing amount of saturation (enough to make a MKIV sweat), but none of that is apparent with the combo's disposition .

The same holds true for certain cabs, as well. I ran mine through a Recto 2x12 and it absolutely sucked though that cab-no tight and fat tone- no obvious saturation. I'm telling you- that amp embarassed my friend's MKIVa through its own halfback 4x12. Through that cab, I felt like I heard the true tone of the DC for the first time.

How could I tell you that it was enough to change my friend's attitude about the "wee little head"? The look on his face said it all- after we swapped heads back to their original cabs, he furiously started tweaking knobs and couldn't get his MKIV to sound as fat and aggressive as the DC-and he's been navigating his way around that MKIV for years. I can tell you that the tones he coaxed out of that MKIV were incredible and undeniable- they just couldn't come near the fat/aggressive voice of the DC.

On the other side of the coin, the DC couldn't scratch the surface of what was possible with the MKIV- with its power section options and myriad of push-pull controls. And IMHO, DCs don't do medium gain tones well- its all or nothing on the lead channel. Different animals, they are.

Edit: as far as mods for more gain, most techs would probably recommend a tube change first of all. A second thing I'd do is tweak the preamp's plate resistors- but who knows what effect that would have? It's one of those things that will take hours of experimentation to accomplish and at the end of the day it may all be a waste.

The bottom line is this- if you aren't runnning your amp though a sweet cab, forget about it. You haven't heard what your DC really sounds like. Your DC should possess a crushing, saturated, and clear distortion with tons of texture and excellent string separation. It should be punchy and fat.

The cleans should be bouncy and chimey with plenty of sparkle and a silvery grit when driven (EL84s). If you are not experiencing this, then you have the wrong speaker/cab. With the exception of headroom, the DC3 shouldn't shrink in the shadow of your MKIV. Both amps are capable of amazing tones. If you find yourself needing more clean headroom, the DC5/10 would get you there. Don't get me started on the DC10 .

 

[LEVEL4]

Thanks, man. Always enjoy reading your posts. I have a DC-3 head. I'm running it through a 4x12 with cheap Celestions. This is the first opportunity I've had to A/B it with a Mark IV, since I just got a new Mark IV rackmount yesterday. I changed the preamp tubes when I first got the DC-3 a couple weeks ago to TungSol 12AX7 re-issues. The previous owner had just replaced the power tubes with JJ EL-84s.

A/Bing the two amps gave me a whole new basis for comparison. I just wish the DC-3 had more presence and more gain. It's a nice-sounding amp, but it needs to be cranked. It's great for dark leads, but the Mark just has so much more on-tap. I read something about "supplying less current in the feedback loop" increases the gain in an amplifier circuit. I just thought there might be a simple mod out there to tweak the amplifier circuits a bit more. The cleans sound great, but I don't ever use cleans. It's a decent amp, but I just find myself wanting more from it. Thanks for your comments!

 

[fdesalvo]

Rock on, brothah! We have to get together some time- I think my band will be planning another House of Blues show on Sunset soon, so you'll get to hear the DC10/MH412 cab action.

Congrats again on the monster score- I love MKIVs so much! I just need something easier for live use.

Edit: Im so tired right now- I forgot to comment on the JJs. Man, I tried JJ EL84s in my DC3 back in the day and found they darkend my tone so much; I put the stock Mesas back in right after.

Goooodnight

 

[LEVEL4]

Rock on, brothah! We have to get together some time- I think my band will be planning another House of Blues show on Sunset soon, so you'll get to hear the DC10/MH412 cab action.

Cool! I just tried recording some tracks with my little 'ole DC head again. Yeah, I have to agree, it's a pretty rockin' amp with a LOT of tone. Funny, it seems to have the exact frequency range that's sort of the missing "hole" on both the Recto and the Mark. This amp is ALL mid-range. Will try the stock Mesa tubes next, I guess. Thanks!

 

[Monsta-Tone]

On your Mark IV thread, I posted that you needed new tubes. I guess you already covered that.


There are some really sick mods that can be done to a DC. Tons more gain on tap, plus the EQ is at the end of the chain on the Lead channel, so it can really be souped up without being muddy.

Warmer bias will breathe new life into the amp too. It will sound more relaxed, a lot less like the little engine that could, and a lot more like a chainsaw on steroids.

A Heyboer or Mercury Mag transformer will open up new dimensions of available tone and headroom, I don't care what Mesa says. The only guy at Mesa who even respects the DC's is George Mueller, he is great to talk to. Gets frustrated easily though.

An adjustable Negative Feedback mod will also add new dimensions to the amp. I usually place it in the Slave knob's position.



So far, the DC's are my favorite Mesa amps. They are very easy to mod, and take mods well, unlike some amps. They are very easy to dial in and they are very consistent from gig to gig, room to room.

They are also very responsive to tube changes. Fdesalvo is right, the tubes and speakers make all the difference in the world.

 

[Fxrs]

The previous owner had just replaced the power tubes with JJ EL-84s.

It's great for dark leads, but the Mark just has so much more on-tap.

This could be part of your problem, I'm not familiar with their EL-84's, but JJ's are known for being dark. Maybe a different set of tubes will set you straight. I've always felt DC's had plenty of gain.

 

[LEVEL4]

There are some really sick mods that can be done to a DC. Tons more gain on tap, plus the EQ is at the end of the chain on the Lead channel, so it can really be souped up without being muddy.

Warmer bias will breathe new life into the amp too. It will sound more relaxed, a lot less like the little engine that could, and a lot more like a chainsaw on steroids.

Thanks for those suggestions, Montsa. I did some recording with the DC-3 last night, and compared to my Mark IV tracks, the little DC head sounded very anemic. I was ready to box it up today and put it on Ebay. But, a "chainsaw on steroids???" Now, THAT sounds like MY kind of amp. It really only sounds like the "little engine that could" now. A warmer bias sounds interesting. More gain on tap? How? Do I just try to find an amp technician in the Los Angeles area to do this? Also, someone else mentioned a tube change. What would you suggest? I put TungSols in the preamp and it has JJs in the power stage. Someone mentioned some Chinese 12AX7s. Which ones? Thanks!

 

[Monsta-Tone]

I have Chinese Mesa 12AX7's in my LSS and they sound really good.

Ruby tubes are Chinese, so are TAD's.

I used the JJ High Gain set from Bob at Eurotubes and really liked them a lot.

You can call him and tell him what you are looking for in tubes. It might even make you not want to mod the amp.

 

[LEVEL4]

I have Chinese Mesa 12AX7's in my LSS and they sound really good.

Ruby tubes are Chinese, so are TAD's.

I used the JJ High Gain set from Bob at Eurotubes and really liked them a lot.

You can call him and tell him what you are looking for in tubes. It might even make you not want to mod the amp.

Thanks, again, Monsta. Well, I guess I'll be on the lookout for the highest-gain, most-aggressive sounding preamp and power tubes for my DC-3, yet, AGAIN. If all works out with this little DC amp, I'll probably buy the rack kit for it, and set it up on top of my Mark IV rackmount, for the ultimate "rack of tone!" Now, if only I had the rack version of the Recto, I'd REALLY be set!