changing tubes in a mesa...does it bring a lot?

[benlink]

Of course, each amp and so each mesa amp has its own voicing, its own feeling etc...
but I've got here a question concerning power and preamp tubes...
for example...putting a tung sol 12ax7(known for a lot of gain) in V1 and JJEL84 in a lonestar special...what will it do?

 

[Platypus]

It changes things but not drastically..

The idea is that for example if you think your amp has a sound you cannot dial out that bothers you, changing tubes might eliminate that sound.. but so might a proper EQ. Some tubes sound 'thin' and maybe you want to thicken it up, some are too bassy and you want a tighter clip, etc.

You won't turn your amp into something else, but different tubes can improve the way the amp already performs.

 

[Boogiebabies]

12AX7 gain is a real misnomer. A 12AX7 should have a gain factor of 100.
Some preamp tubes end up having gain factors from 105-115. These are higher gain preamp tubes. The problem is that there is only so much usable gain in a tube and in a preamp circuit that you will only benefit from a high gain pre to a certain extent. You may get a your gain a bit earlier on the dial, but you can only drive it so much before it starts to compress. Combine this and the tendency of each preamp tube mabufacturers 12AX7 having it's own distinct tone and you will propably end up trying dozens of different combinations, including power tubes to find a tone that agrees with you. In some cases, depending on the amp design, you may never find it and have to deal with what you have. As you try, you will hear the differences in gain, brighter/darker, touch sensitivity and harmonics. the same goes for power tubes, but you can add compression and output power to the mix.

Enjoy the tweaking.

 

[benlink]

but...here the aims is not to change completely the amp...but to make it more agressive....is it possible ornot?

 

[Platypus]

but...here the aims is not to change completely the amp...but to make it more agressive....is it possible ornot?

Yes, it is possible.

 

[Boogiebabies]

but...here the aims is not to change completely the amp...but to make it more agressive....is it possible ornot?

That was not in your original question. Unfortunately, the tube gods are fickle and you will have to figure out how to make it more agressive via preamp tube, power tube, guitar pickups, speakers and tone control settings. The point I was tring to make is that you cannot turn a mule into a race horse, but by tweaking with certain tubes you may be able to get a tone that is close to what you seek. You have be very careful of opinions. Most of the time after you have taken someone's advice and drop $ 100.00 on tubes only to find out that your preceptions were complete opposites.

You have to do the research and tweaking to find your own tone.

 

[Platypus]

You have to do the research and tweaking to find your own tone.

+1000

The only way to find your sound is to experiment and try different things.. that's half the fun!

 

[benlink]

and how much...for example a lonestar special or classic...for instance, we can consider that they are as agressive as plexis right?
so if I change tubes...how far can I go in terms of agressivity?

 

[benlink]

in other words...taking for example a lonestar special head put on a recto cab and with some more agressive tubes.......ca it do hardrock/metal?
(of course with its own voicing....I mean..the combo is quite close to a markI..so with all this it could be close to a markIIC+ or mark IV no?)

 

[benlink]

did I tell something really stupid or does it make sense?(this interests me a lot)...
imagine: a mix of a superb clean, a fabulous reverb and a distortion that can dial with metal....
(cause IMO, a lot of guys think only a recto can do metal.......ok but other amps can do it with their own voicing..)

 

[Platypus]

did I tell something really stupid or does it make sense?(this interests me a lot)...
imagine: a mix of a superb clean, a fabulous reverb and a distortion that can dial with metal....
(cause IMO, a lot of guys think only a recto can do metal.......ok but other amps can do it with their own voicing..)

What you're describing didn't really exist until the Road King came out,

 

[benlink]

You have to do the research and tweaking to find your own tone.

+1000

The only way to find your sound is to experiment and try different things.. that's half the fun!

I know....but the thing is....personnally....well when it comes to such great amps, EL34 voicing or 6L6 sounds are to die for IMO.....each has its advantage....it's true that in order to be entirely satisfied I should buy two heads or a road king...but not enough money....

and well.....this is why I ask this about the lonestar..cause:
-the lonestar special head is absolutely gorgeous IMO
-great clean sounds
-great reverb
-solo boost
-so no need of other pedals
and if it can dial with higher gainer stuff....(by the way, on mesa site, on a magazine review it says that ok it cannot do nu metal but can be very agressive)....
look at this lovely thing

 

[strumminsix]

There is an interesting relationship between in your circuitry between the level of your signal (true gain) and the break up of your signal (often called gain).

A preamp tube with an output of say 110 but later break-up will make your amp cleaner at louder volumes since the level is so high going into the poweramp you won't need to turn it up as loudly hence headroom on the poweramp section and headroom on the preamp section.

Conversely if the out put is say 100 but early breakup you will get preamp overdriven sound.

It's a very complicated process getting clean and driven and levels.

I'd highly recommend a good conversation with a tube guru.

 

[benlink]

ok I'll contact one tube guru 8)
the idea in order to have high gain metal stuff(even if not extreme) would be to put this head on a recto 2x12 cab , to change one tube or two and to play with my guitar esp equipped qith emg81 and 60...

 

[PDad]

12AX7 gain is a real misnomer. A 12AX7 should have a gain factor of 100.
Some preamp tubes end up having gain factors from 105-115... compression and output power to the mix.

Enjoy the tweaking.

Boogiebabies: Nicely written. You've obviously spent some time and effort on this, and have enough Mesa amps in your stable to have had a good deal of experience.

The subject fascinates me, but I honestly don't hear enough of a difference in any of my own tube amps to be neurotic about it. Opinions are all over the map about which tubes sound "best," "darker," "rounder," "more aggressive," etc.

My tech suggested Rubys, so I use them, but I probably just don't have enough sensitivity to justify spending time on "The Quest." I think my amp sounds f***ing great!

If you have anything else to share, please do.

 

[NoGlassNoClass]

ok I'll contact one tube guru 8)
the idea in order to have high gain metal stuff(even if not extreme) would be to put this head on a recto 2x12 cab , to change one tube or two and to play with my guitar esp equipped qith emg81 and 60...

A tube swap is not going to change your Lonestar into a Recto no way no how. That said, the Lonestar is an outstanding amplifier capable of a good ammount of very toneful overdrive. If you want to get it into metal territory however, you will need some type of overdrive pedal.

 

[jbird]

Your not gonna turn a vintage/boutique/texas styled amp into a metal amp with a tube change. Sorry! :roll:

 

[Anonymous]

Post removed.

 

[benlink]

EDIT:I mean....the stiletto seems reeally great...I know the voicing of these two amps are different but I like the two tones...but the lonestar has such a great reverb...
and yes not a long time ago, people like metallica did metal by pushing at their maximum their amps.....
actually...if I ever take a boost..I want it to be extremely transparent..ccan e pedal act like a pedal which only adds gain without changing the voicing and tone of the amp?(xotic boosters?others?)

 

[benlink]

...isn't there a pedal that could add gain without modifying the tone and the voicing of the amp?
so a gain booster ..really transparent...for example...I would swicth the booster on for metal stuff....and for the solos use the solo switch on the lonestar....no?
cause a disto pedal will change the voicing....except perhaps a tonebone classic or tri mode....but I'm not a a fan of having pedals....