Ch3, Extreme mode, Attack reduces with fx loop engaged

[HeadlessAxeman]

the kerrang / presence is severely rolled off with FX loop engaged and going into a BOSS GT10.

I had a prior problem of losing the balls in the tone, but I recovered from that problem mostly by increasing the channel master volume, and fx send volume, but controlling the OUTPUT volume knob accordingly.
But now, the extreme attack is lost with any digital processor put in the loop using the 4CM method.

A live with it situation..or get proper true bypass analog pedals situation? 8)

 

[EtherealWidow]

You should look into a Radial dragster which is about $50. The problem from my understanding is the shitty buffers that boss uses (although I love my DD20 still). So the Dragster is meant to correct the impedance. It's adjustable.

 

[nyeguy]

I find that if I turn down channel volume and turn up master volume I get rid of some of the "blanket over the speakers" due to my chorus pedals. I've since given up on using any chorus and only run my DD20 tthrough the loop. Its a shame that after spending $2000 on a semi-boutique amp that I now have to spend more money on high-end effects!

 

[SBG200]

the kerrang / presence is severely rolled off with FX loop engaged and going into a BOSS GT10.

What is kerrang?

 

[HeadlessAxeman]

What is kerrang?

Just semantics..don't bother.

some people call it mush.....the crisp metal thunk you hear when you palm mute and chug on a chord
Kerrang = sound of metal gainst metal ..and if you're a fan...its a magazine as well.

 

[EtherealWidow]

Yeah. Like SCHWING! Although it's more the sound that boners make in Wayne's World, it's also the sound that unsheathing a sword makes.

 

[SBG200]

Ah okay.

 

[mejoshee]

I find that if I turn down channel volume and turn up master volume I get rid of some of the "blanket over the speakers" due to my chorus pedals. I've since given up on using any chorus and only run my DD20 tthrough the loop. Its a shame that after spending $2000 on a semi-boutique amp that I now have to spend more money on high-end effects!

might wanna consider a line mixer to mixer the dry back into the fx loop so it's not lost in the chorus.

 

[HeadlessAxeman]

You should look into a Radial dragster which is about $50. The problem from my understanding is the sh!t buffers that boss uses (although I love my DD20 still). So the Dragster is meant to correct the impedance. It's adjustable.

Looks like you might be onto something. Radial dragster is an impedance correction device that might work. But from other forums across the internet, it seems like one of the two cases:
Impedance mismatch/poor buffers OR
Tweaking/Level matching at every stage within the fx processor and also meddling with the FX SEND Volume on the back of the Mark V.

My fx send level on the mark V is set to noon (unity gain?) ...don't know if adjusting the send / return levels on the GT 10 + FX Level on Mark V makes a difference..going to try it out this weekend...

 

[EtherealWidow]

Well yeah I'm just talking from my experience with my Boss DD20 going to and from the loop in my Express, so I might be experiencing something totally different though. I'll have to buy a dragster sooner or later, though.

 

[HeadlessAxeman]

Folks...a quick update...
I resolved the attack and loss of tone issue as well ! ...

the culprit....the levels were mismatched inside the GT 10 across the various stages/fx that I use - when in fact I thought I had level-matched it!
Had to bring the fx send volum on the backside of the mark V from 12 (default) to about 9:00 and match the overall send/return levels inside the GT10 and as well as any fx tht I use inside of it...

The result...I'm going to put it up on youtube when I get some time...
the sound with the FX Loop engaged or not ..soudns exactly the same !...I'm sure there must be some loss of upper harmonics/tone, but, NONE THAT MY EARS CAN MAKE OUT ...AT LAST !!!...

match your levels...you're going to get the pure raw tone even if you have a digital processor in the loop using the 4CM method.

:twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

 

[JAZZGEAR]

I find that if I turn down channel volume and turn up master volume I get rid of some of the "blanket over the speakers" due to my chorus pedals. I've since given up on using any chorus and only run my DD20 tthrough the loop. Its a shame that after spending $2000 on a semi-boutique amp that I now have to spend more money on high-end effects!

Yeah, go figure...what were they thinking eh? Can't imagine spending all that money on a Porsche or Ferrari, then have to only use high performance tires -- or only high octane fuel :roll:

 

[EtherealWidow]

Haha. You all make me feel guilty for still loving my DD 20 with my Express.

 

[nyeguy]

What a bullshit statement JAZZGEAR! That's the kind of self rightious, cork-sniffing comment I would expect over at the PRS boards! This is the ONLY amp that my less than rightious pedals has a problem with. I've had several amps over the 25 years of playing guitar and YOU are gonna tell me that its my pedals fault and not that there's an impedance miss-match or a line volume problem or atleast some sort of intelligent statement that could be the cause? Instead I get an unrelated automobile babble? C'mon....

 

[Scary]

What a bullshit statement JAZZGEAR! That's the kind of self rightious, cork-sniffing comment I would expect over at the PRS boards! This is the ONLY amp that my less than rightious pedals has a problem with. I've had several amps over the 25 years of playing guitar and YOU are gonna tell me that its my pedals fault and not that there's an impedance miss-match or a line volume problem or atleast some sort of intelligent statement that could be the cause? Instead I get an unrelated automobile babble? C'mon....

No offense.. but I agree. Sure you can use cheap effects with the mark V, but you're going to hear it. Think of the V as a mic for your guitar. Its the beauty of the amp, it doesn't hide, or cover anything. That's what allows us to use great sounding gain while still being able to hear every note in a chord. Its a good thing,and uncommon in my experience.

 

[nyeguy]

Thank you Scary! Not for anything but your opinion and for not degrading someone because of theequiptment used! Having said that, I agree that lower grade pedals do degrade your sound ESPECIALLY in the MkV, I m having a hard time with the cause being just because the amp is so clear. My reasoning is that through my JSX Peavey (yes a Peavey) and more recently a Diezel,the same effectss are chrystal clear and and do not degrade. I'm willing to say that the JSX is ALMOST as clear-sounding as the MkV! Which makes me think there's more to it than just the superiority of the MkV. I've used these pedals in many amps even my MkIIb and didn't have the same issue! This is my 4th Mesa and I haven't had one without these pedals! I'm still going to go out and buy more effects because I love my MkV but I still believe there's an impedence miss match or something to cause the sound degridation in the FX loop! ...again thank you for your opinion and intelligent post!

 

[HeadlessAxeman]

I guess..nyeguy also has a point..

There's a reason..why Wille Adler just runs a normal boss compressor ahead of the Mark V..and its a cheap ..but good quality pedal..

If you're going to buy industry standard equip (boss/digitech/etc), I'd doubt you can blame the quality or make of the pedals or even the components all the time and be right about it.

In the end, its about using the fx in an intelligent way...remembering that the tone is the fingers and the attack in the hands.

 

[nyeguy]

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that I, as well as others, are having issues with high frequency loss with certain pedals in the loop. If the same pedals are put into a different effects loop of another amp and that loss isnt there then since its a high frequency loss were dealing with, that to me seems like an impedance mismatch. High freq loss is high freq loss it doesnt matter what it goes through. Now, I'm not going to tell you that Boss pedals are the best available, but as was said by Headlessaxeman, its the industry standard and this amps FX loop shoulda had this in mind(IMHO). I've found that by running the loop Vol. at noon and turning my master volume up around 10-11 oclock while keeping my channel volume down lower at around 8-9 I get some of that high frequency back. I still wasnt happy with the sound I was getting with the loop on, so I removed and moved around some things and found it was my chorus pedals. Not one but all three different brands. Now thats with AND without those pedals on! My Boss DD20 still sounds the same way as it did through my other amps and it still has its quirks but the chorus is where the problem is! I love my old Ibanez cs9! I apologize if I seemed alittle hot headded and it was only directed at the one guy who wasnt helping the situation but was only here to degrade others! Thanks for your opinions and looking forward to hearing more!

 

[Scary]

Thank you Scary! Not for anything but your opinion and for not degrading someone because of theequiptment used! Having said that, I agree that lower grade pedals do degrade your sound ESPECIALLY in the MkV, I m having a hard time with the cause being just because the amp is so clear. My reasoning is that through my JSX Peavey (yes a Peavey) and more recently a Diezel,the same effectss are chrystal clear and and do not degrade. I'm willing to say that the JSX is ALMOST as clear-sounding as the MkV! Which makes me think there's more to it than just the superiority of the MkV. I've used these pedals in many amps even my MkIIb and didn't have the same issue! This is my 4th Mesa and I haven't had one without these pedals! I'm still going to go out and buy more effects because I love my MkV but I still believe there's an impedence miss match or something to cause the sound degridation in the FX loop! ...again thank you for your opinion and intelligent post!

No problem. The way I look at it, the personality of the mark V that makes pedals sound as they are is the same that allows your guitars own voice to shine. Just make sure your technique is polished and your guitars (cables) are up to par! My Mark IV was similar to this but not to the same degree.