Carvin Legacy or Mesa Boogie Mark III/IV...?

[ZedPi]

Hi, people!

I've been reading topics on this forum for a couple of months and decided to join and use your comments as guidance for my choices and purchases.

Anyway, I was at Eric Clapton's concert couple of days ago, and I stopped at a local store that carries Carvin's gear. I've tried Legacy and it struck me as a great amp. Clean channel was really nice and so tastefull. Lead channel was great also. Just beautiful, but a bit harder to dial in than a clean channel. Awsome amp! My only gripe was that it *kinda* lacked in definition, if you know what I mean... Not very well defined... Maybe it's just me... Overall, great amp. But, I didn't have anything to compare it to beside Carvin's amps. Cudbucket said it nicely that Carvin has something special going on with the Legacy...

Recently I've been interested in Mesa Boogie Mark series amps, especially later models (III and IV - cause of the three channels). I REALLY like Mr. Petrucci's tone on "Images and Words" album as well as Liquid Tension Experiment records...

I'm looking for a very, very smooth lead sound that cuts through. I know that Legacy can deliver, but I don't know if it needs a pedal in front for that... Mark IV seems like a perfect amp (well, judging by various forums and people who comment them), but, unfortunately, there isn't any Mesa amp in my proximity.

I have no doubt that Mark IV's rhythm channel is more versatile than Legacy's, for that chunky, Petrucci rhythm tone, but I wonder if anybody could compare lead channels of these amps?

At some point I was ready to pay for the Legacy AND ENGL's Fireball heads (I've tried Fireball, and although it is a one-trick pony, it does metal rhythm VERY well), but I thought that a single amp with similar characteristics would be more appropriate.


If you have any suggestions and comments, please, feel free to post it here!


Thanks!



ZedPi

 

[user 2126]

The Mark III are not easy to find (I know what I am talking about) even the Mark IV is not easy to find too and it a lot more expensive.
If you want Petrucci's tone go for MESA just because it the amps he use (Mark IIc+, Triaxis, and more recently the Road King). Mesa definitly got the tone and specification for your needs. Hope you find one because a Total of 28,983 Mark I to Mark III were made (exactly 13563 for the Mark III) all disperse in the world. Good luck.

 

[CudBucket]

I think it's interesting that you should be considering the Legacy with either the Mark III or IV because they are similar in that they are extremely smooth amps. I've never owned a III but I've owned 2 IVs. If you're a constant tweaker, the IV is for you. They're not hard to find. It seems they're are always 3 or 4 Mark IVs on Ebay. I see even more Mark IIIs on Ebay as well.

I have an RKII right now and have to say if I was going to buy another amp, it would be a brand new Legacy. It's a great amp and simple in it's design. You probably would need an OD up front to push it over the top but realize that's exactly how the amp was designed to be used. Vai has always put some kind of OD/Distortion stomp in front. When I played one though, I thought the lead channel had plenty of gain.

Here are a few...

http://cgi.ebay.com/MESA-BOOGIE-MARK-3-III-TOP-OF-LINE-MINT-CONDITION_W0QQitemZ180009244679QQihZ008QQcategoryZ43374QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/1990s-Mark-III-Mesa-Boogie_W0QQitemZ120011165040QQihZ002QQcategoryZ43375QQssPageNameZWD1VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/Mesa-Boogie-Mark-IV-Bubinga-Wicker-w-EV-speaker-cover_W0QQitemZ270008239819QQihZ017QQcategoryZ43374QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/Mesa-Boogie-Mark-IV-4-Short-Head-Footswitch_W0QQitemZ220007712644QQihZ012QQcategoryZ43374QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/MESA-BOOGIE-MARK-IV-GUITAR-AMP-EXC-COND-NR_W0QQitemZ110010040303QQihZ001QQcategoryZ43374QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/Mesa-Boogie-mark-IV-4-head-tube-amp-footswitch_W0QQitemZ140009550689QQihZ004QQcategoryZ43374QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 

[user 2126]

Believe me here it very rare, almost like pope's ****.

 

[SFW]

The lead channel on the Legacy and the Mark IV are very simular in tonal structure. Having owned both, I can tell you that either head will cut through the mix very well. With the Legacy, start with all the lead tone controls at noon. Then play with it from there. I'd be willing to bet that you would move them very far in either direction. I believe that the Carvin has a bit more gain than the Mark IV. However, with that said, I find it hard to see the need for more gain that a Mark IV will dish out. When I had my Legacy, I kept the lead gain around 7. Past that, and the amp starts to really compress. The Legacy will be a more "plug and play" amp. the Mark IV takes a bit of reading to dial into the grail. Either amp would be good, they both make playing lead work very fun.

 

[ZedPi]

Thanks, people, especially you, Dave, as you've been most helpful to me on various guitar related forums accross the net! Yeah, I've seen these amps on ebay, but, unfortunately, few of them will be shipped to Europe.

I really liked Legacy, it IS an awsome amp, but the thing is, I dunno how it can reproduce Petrucci tone which is a little bit different than Vai's... I mean, nothing of this "Vai tone" or "Petrucci tone" REALLY matters, but... Ideally, I'd buy both of them, but since I bought an HIFI amp last month, I'll be able to purchase either one of them (for this year).

The thing is, I'd like to get the most versatile amp within a few boundaries: good clean, nice chrunch and smooth lead sound (don't we all!!! ). I think that these two will satisfy my every tonal need...

The good thing is that I've narrowed it to these two!!! There were couple of candidates more in the "playoffs":

1. ENGL Powerball (the best metal sounds - mind I've never played
Rectifier - but that's IT!)
2. Framus Dragon (three channels, great chrunch, but not smooth lead)
3. Carvin V3 (fizzy like hell, no use to me)


I've already stated that my favorite rhythm and lead tones are Petrucci's on Images and albums before "6DOIT", and Vai's on recent albums ("Ultra Zone", "Reflections: Illusions"...) + Mark Knopfler's "On Every Street" and "Golden Heart" albums tone. That man is awsome!

At the end, I'll buy one at the time but can't decide which one first... Maybe I'll grab a decent Mark IV head first (mind I live in Europe, so its kinda hard to find a seller that will ship to Europe), and then go for the Legacy head just for Vai-sh solo tone... Oh, man, I feel like my head's about to explode!!!


Anyway, thanks again, and if anybody has anything to add - please do.



ZedPi

 

[Russ]

I haven't found much use for R2 yet on the Mark IV though I usually just plug into my Marshalls for those ranges. As far as cleans the Mark IV is definitely nice. I have been using the Lead as my rhythm with an overdrive out front for some boost for leads. I should probably just find an amp that would cover it without having to use the pedal but I dig it nonetheless. I have a JMP for the really smooth singing leads and a JCM800 for 80's stuff. If I can't get there with the Ampeg VL I know I can with the Mark IV. You might want to check out an Ampeg VL. The VL was designed by Lee Jackson. The 503 was the most versatile. It is very comparable to the Mark IV but has a built in attenuator and adjustable bias controls also. Where the Mark IV has an eq the VL has a mid scoop dial that contours your sound. The VL can take EL-34's or 6550's. I am sure that KT-77's and some 6L6's/5881's might work also. Marbe even KT-88's. The VL was the amp I was playing mostly prior to the Mark IV for modern rock/metal. The nice thing is that they go for pretty cheap. The problem is that there are not that many which makes no sense. You would think that a little backwards but it is nice to be able to pick up a good workingman's amp for cheap in comparison to other comparable amps.

 

[CudBucket]

No problem Zed. Yeah, if you're leaning towards any Petrucci tone, you're probably better off starting with almost any Boogie instead of a Legacy. Yikes, the V3! Stay away. What a piece of crap. Carvin is still replacing those as we speak due to problems they've had.

PS

Yeah, for me, R2 was useless on the Mark IV.

 

[Elpelotero]

granted, i've never heard a Carvin, but "there's just something about" those Mark amps. They do it all short of breakfast. The mark4 IMO is the ultimate tweakers amp. every single tone is inside. except maybe like an exact van halen, or ac/dc clone tone, but it doesn't mean they can't produce sounds from that era well. if i wasn't so bent up on a 2c+, i would've had my mark4 over a year ago. the compromise is i'm still here searching for my one-of-a-kind c+. but i got a couple of rectos to hold me over! btw, don't get the recto for leads. you're much better with any of the mark amps. the problem i've always had with vai's tone is that it was too bubbly and effectized (it's a word now!). sometimes you can't even tell the transitions because each new note doesn't punch away from the previous. the mark amps have punch and sustain for days. to me, it's a no brainer. (PS--Vai actually uses bogner shivas nowadays. legacy's are mostly show).

 

[musicman10_1]

I would go with the Mark IV. It has taken me a while to get it set to the tones that I want but just about any tone you like is in there. Patience is required!

 

[reo73]

Petrucci used a Triaxis for I&W. A Mark III will get you the closest to that tone, a Mark IV will be close as well. There are always a few for sale on ebay at any one time so they are typically not hard to find.

A Legacy is not focused enough in the bottom end to get you a good Petrucci tone. It has nice creamy leads but a loose bottom

 

[ZedPi]

Petrucci used a Triaxis for I&W.

I think that he started using TriAxis on later albums...

http://www.musicplayers.com/features/guitars/2006/0306John_Petrucci.php


Anyway, I'll go with a Mark IV. I just need to find a buyer that will ship to Europe... Thanx!!!


ZedPi

 

[reo73]

Petrucci used a Triaxis for I&W.

I think that he started using TriAxis on later albums...

http://www.musicplayers.com/features/guitars/2006/0306John_Petrucci.php


Anyway, I'll go with a Mark IV. I just need to find a buyer that will ship to Europe... Thanx!!!


ZedPi

He used the triaxis early on for I&W and his touring rig. He transitioned to the IIC+ (as stated in the article) during Awake.

 

[ZedPi]

as stated in the article

:lol:


I think I've read in Guitar Player magazine (early nineties issue) tha he used Mark and/or(?!) some other Boogie for I&W... I'll try to dig it up, but that's not the point of this topic...

Ebay auctions for Mark IV are getting too high (start bid)...


ZedPi