Can't stand modern Marshalls!

[MkIII Renegade]

, and dsl50 are all brilliant amps, all made after 1969.

The DSL 50 is one of the absolule WORST amps I've ever heard in my life. Utter garage band crap amp. Not one decent sound to be found. I've tried them, TSLs, AVTs, MGx and the lamentable Valvestate series of "yore".

The JCM 800, darling of the hair (brained) metal moron generation of idiots is another unmitigated POS. I find it interesting you'd cite that on a Boogie board as well.

LOL what rock did you crawl out from under??!! Please crawl back under it. Lame attitude.

 

[ahoi]

On the other hand i occasionally played a valvestate amp, which i really liked. It was easy to setup and good sounding, which was the opposite of what i excpected. Most people simply do not know how to set up an amp properly. Or better : How to get the most out of it, even if the word MESA is not on the amp

 

[futurestar]

I don't like getting into these discussions normally, but I actually just bought a 2002 DSL 100 head the other day. It's a little too early to tell but it has some usable sounds for sure. I also own a 50 caliber head, and have a series I dual rectifier as well that I was using to record my band's cd over the last few weeks. (We were also running a 70's bassman, and a dual caliber head for tracking). In the past I've owned numerous Marshall heads including two early 80's JCM 800s, and a Jubilee head as well. It really comes down to what kind of music you're playing, and what feels comfortable to you as a player IMO. I've heard great players make average amps sound incredible, and also the opposite. A lot of the tone is "in the hands", and besides, everything to do with music is subjective, including the sound of amps. I love the Rectifier I have here, but it only works for certain things, same goes for Marshalls. No Boogie amp I've ever heard could have given me the awesome "jangly" tone of the Bassman head I used for the CD, and the Bassman couldn't give me the rectifier or Marshall tones either. Friends of mine have owned 60's Marshalls and they sound amazing, but they also sound totally different than a dsl or jcm 800. Bottom line - if you hate post 69 Marsall amps ... play something else - there are lots of choices out there. My 2 cents.

 

[scotspine]

"No Boogie amp I've ever heard could have given me the awesome "jangly" tone of the Bassman head"

think lonestar!

 

[Guitarzan]

The New handwired stuff sounds good...I saw/heard Nick Bowcott demo them at last years NAMM show. Now what gets me is the price tag on those puppies. If your going to spend that kind of cash and are tech saavy then go to http://www.metroamp.com and build yourself one. If not then go to http://www.fuchsaudiotechnology.com. Check out the audio/video clips they have. Good Stuff. I own a JCM 2K DSL 50W and I've already had to replace the output transformer. It always gets slaved from my dual rec and sounds killer throught my Genz 2X12 G-Flex. If anyone is looking for some great replacement transformers then go to http://www.mercurymagnetics.com. They have everything for old Fenders and Marshalls.

 

[Botch]

, and dsl50 are all brilliant amps, all made after 1969.

The DSL 50 is one of the absolule WORST amps I've ever heard in my life. Utter garage band crap amp. Not one decent sound to be found. I've tried them, TSLs, AVTs, MGx and the lamentable Valvestate series of "yore".

I had a DSL50 not so long ago and it was a great amp. It was warm, cut through the mix well, reliable, had great tone...And at a 1/3 of the price of many other high gain amps it was great value.

 

[Guitarzan]

Bet you wouldn't kick a ...Fuchs...out of bed either!

MMMM..Fuchs! Shock Me make me feel better!

 

[Mrmot]

The other guitarist in my band plays on a TSL 2*12 60 watt combo. That amp sounds really good when it's the only guitar in a band, really smooth, two other bands play on it in our garage and they sound pretty good cause there's only one guitar in those bands. But when we play, my Studio22+ simply slays it. We tried tweaking the Marshall to hell, but it still sounds really muddy, it just can't be heard in a mix. We tried raising the master volume on it to be heard but it only overpowers everything with it's muddiness and lack of articulation.. Mesa cuts like a knife through the mix, while there just some muddy and bassy sound coming from the TSL, you almost can't differ a single note, it sounds like it's on the bottom of the pool in the next room.. It's been about five or six years since i played a jcm800 but i remember that it sounded really good on gigs

 

[Bobbypols]

while it could be said that certain people, certian guitars, and certain amps aline...nothing has sounded better in the distortion appartment then a MARSHALL. I agree that marshall of yore sound MUCH MUCH MUCH better then the marhsall of now...why? because marshall adopted a boogie approach to try to compete on the same level of pre amp gain that the boogie deals with. With that said...nothing beats true crunch of a overdriven marhsall from origin right up to silver jubliee....and oh yes, the formidable jcm 800! Until mesa gets ride of there fuzzyness that surronds there notes...im marshall/fender 4 life!..i guess i just sound better through them...but ive heard some friends sound killer through boogies...just not me. Too each thier own...BUT MARHSALL JCM 800 do not suck..just everything after lol

 

[Nomad100]

I still own and use a DSL 50. Crank that sucker up and it sounds better than 90% of the amps out there.

Marshalls have to be played loud. (Now go get a HotPlate).

 

[J.R.B.]

New Marshall's.........for me to poop on :shock:

 

[slayer]

I am intrigued by the Marshall 6100 head and passed up a great deal for one $600. Did I mess up, how do they sould straight up for playing Speed Metal type stuff? The guy said it was high gain, but you know that goes sometimes!! Jack.

 

[Russ]

slayer, that 6100 is a nice piece. It will certainly handle speed metal. It was a nice anniversary limited run amp. For the price, you should have jumped all over it.

As far as I am concerned they should have reissued the revised 2210 instead of making the DSL. My 2210 smokes a DSL as far as tone and crunch go. It even gets crunchier than the venerable 2203. A lot of people knock the split channels but have never played them, or at least a good one. Sure the early ones had bleed over issues but they fixed that and improved the gain channel after about 1987. All I know is mine is a 1988 model and it seriously kicks some @ss. The earlier models had a cleaner clean but who uses their 800 for clean clean? My only complaint was the back panel stuff- the effects loop was mediocre (but tube driven) and the DI sucked (and most people's knobs broke off). Doyle (the author of "the book") stated that it was one of his favorites. Honestly, I don't know why they stopped the 800's. The 900's pretty much just sucked and the 2000's are so-so.

My JMP 2204 is just incredible but that goes without saying. If I go low input and crank it with the preamp gain lowered it gets pretty close to non-master sounding. I can plug into high and crank the gain up and get some nice sizzle/crunch. With NOS tubes in it there isn't much better. The master just makes it so you can appreciate it without blowing the windows out of the building. I don't understand why non-master guys have to knock them so often.

My Ampeg Vl-501 is pretty much a one-trick pony though. But unlike other Marshall-types, it has a user adjustable bias and a switch to go from EL-34s to 6550's. It has a similar 2 knob preamp gain setup as the 900 but there is some fun stuff on it though (cascading gain in the preamp, attenuator, lockable power supply via barrel key to prevent unwanted use, and a backlit logo panel). It does the modded Marshall high gain thing very well.

I have heard that there are some mods to make the DSL a real contender though. It has something to do with resistor values and lifting a leg out of a solder joint. I don't recall exactly but trolling the boards you'd find it. It makes it a real tone machine. I haven't heard the mod personally yet, but I'd be curious to.

I know Mesa is pretty much adivided camp with the Mark guys and the Recto guys, but why doesn't Mesa just release something that does both well? They could call it the Marktifier or the Rectomark (real Marshall guys will like the latter). Why release the Stiletto that sounds like a Marshall? Why keep making amps that are based on each other within the genre? I know that the hard core guys in each camp would still not buy the new Rectumark but people converting to the Mesa sound would appreciate it. And if they can reissue the Markl, why can't they reissue the Mark IIC+? That or just make an Uber-Mark that is like 15 channels or something? If cost is an issue here, Mesa is already expensive as it is. The Road King is not cheap and that is more or less the Uber-Rectifier...

Sorry to use the Uber, I am just in a mood...

 

[eldi]

I think that the preJCM2000 Marshalls are bad ***! I used to own a JCM 900 2500 50 watt Master Volume head, with a 1960A cab (GT12-75's)back when I played in a punk rock band. Although it didn't have the versatility of the Mesa Mk series, it did what it did well. (It had the "Dookie" era Green Day sound, I wish I had my Les Pauls when I owned this amp, I was playing a lackluster of an Ibanez RG550 through this at the time). Ironically, I drive a Marshall 1960AV cab (Vintage 30's)with a (Mesa) MkIII head. I think the stuff made after the JCM 900 series is way overpriced for what you get, as far as features & quality, especially when you compare it to Mesa gear. I'd say the same thing about Fenders made after the Silverface era as well.

 

[Friedmett]

Since I bought my Marshall 2187 combo 50 watt 1978 and my Marshall Major 200watt head in very good /original form from 1971 I haven't looked for other Marshalls in terms of amps. Maybe speakers as I need some but not amps.

They just sound better than the new Marshalls. I'm aware of the handwired stuff just out but that's a different price range so the stores here in Denmark don't have them so I can try them.

Besides the sound of the 2187 is hard to beat.

 

[ytse_jam]

i tried a TSL 60w combo...not satisfied on clean channel, lead channel is too dirty sounding (i don't mean there's too much distortion, simply the sound isn't smooth and clear on higain) to play a heavy rhythm part, i think it would be better for soloing, due to the fact that this dirty feel could add some richness to the single note. But, i repeat, awful and quite harsh on higain rhythm playing.
Talkin about solidstate, i found AVT series awful too. The best solidstate combo i've tried is a MG100DFX..you can get some quite good tones from it.

 

[nomadlover]

i hate to offer my opinion but i tried a paul through a dsl, i'll agree i liked my nomad more. then i tried it on a jcm 800 on gain with neck and middle p'up tone rolled off. it smoked my mesa. now i wish i would have botten it instead

 

[straitouttahell]

I agree with the guys who say that Marshalls do need to be cranked to sound at their best. I have tried several Marshalls (SS, VS and all tube) and they all seemed to sound somewhat *good* with all the pots at 10.

Problem is, an amp which needs to be cranked to sound good is such an anachronistic way of buildings amps. The vast majority of amps out there will sound *good* at bedroom levels, even if they will all deliver their best at high volumes.

But that's a matter of tastes. I personally don't like old Santana tones, for example, but millions of people disagree with me in this, so all the tone-related discussion must be taken with a grain of salt.

As a matter of fact, recent Marshall amps DO suck as far as it goes with build quality. I have seen quite a few of them, and they all look the same: built with cheap components and assembled without too much effort.

I have done some small fix jobs on DSLs and TSLs, Valvestates and AVTs from friends, they all had stupid problems with cheap pots, crappy jacks and switches.

I think a Marshall-branded amp deserves a better construction. Even the fact that they are relatively cheap doesn't stand up much: nowadays you can get a lot better (Peavey, for example) for as *low*.

My 0,02

 

[Cleekster]

I agree with the guys who say that Marshalls do need to be cranked to sound at their best. I have tried several Marshalls (SS, VS and all tube) and they all seemed to sound somewhat *good* with all the pots at 10.

Problem is, an amp which needs to be cranked to sound good is such an anachronistic way of buildings amps. The vast majority of amps out there will sound *good* at bedroom levels, even if they will all deliver their best at high volumes.

My 0,02

I don't care if it's a marshall,boogie or what Power Tube Saturation/overdrive will ALWAYS SOUND BETTER than Preamp distortion.....maybe it is Anochronistic but the fact is Preamp distortion is preamp distortion..i don't care if it's solid-state tube or what....until you start cooking with overdriven power tubes it's not gonna sound good.
Listen to any decentalbum from the 60's through the early 90's and a large component of the sound is Power Tube Saturation...i don't care if it's led zepplin,bon jovi,g'n'r',or who it is.

{now on to a earlier post about 2203/4's being all-tube}


and yes many (some were in fact All-Tube)of the marshall JCM 800 2203(80's) and ALL dual channel jcm 800/900's feature solid-state diode based preamp distortion....they use the first tube to slam the diode with the input signal and the other 2 tubes to amplify this signal and "warmit up"before it gets to the power amp....it is MUCH MORE EXPENSIVE to add tube gain stages than to let a diode do it for you......this is why METAL players LOVE these amps and blues,jazz,rock(etc) HATE these amps.....they have a more "in-your-face" crunch than earlier marshalls as opposed to the warmer more touch responsive sound of earlier "plexis" ...this also is why they sound thin and buzzy turned down low....

LONG-LIVE HAIR METAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Koreldyre]

I didn't read the entire thread but I have to say I'm a pretty big fan of Marshalls past and present - the DSL being no exception, I think it is a fantastic sounding amp.

Here's some clips that do it more justice than most:

http://www.digitalplayroom.com/marshall/dsl100/dsl100_demo.htm#