Can a Blown Tube Injure the Head?

[ur86d]

I feel pretty silly.

I hadn't turned the Master up past 2'oclock or so for fear of burning something since I didn't know what the problem was. Well I ended up putting the master to 3 o'clock and playing a few chords and it sounded like whatever the problem was just ended instantly and everything works as normal on the head now. It must have just needed a little umph to get it started.

Everything's smooth sailing. The head sounds great, absolutely perfect Mesa goodness.

I spent quite a bit of cash on this Mesa and am satisfied to have received flawless Mesa tone.

So... I played around with the knobs until I found a REALLY sweet spot:

Master - 2
Presence - 3
Bass/Mid/Treb - 12
Gain - 2:30

How many OHM's is that cabinet you're using rated for? Is the speaker cable in the correct tap on the transformer in the mesa, for either proper impedence or a safe mismatch? If the head and cabinet are set for proper impedence, or a safe mismatch and you can rule that out as a problem;
Then Dude, get the recto checked out by a tech. If you have to crank the master to 2 or 3 O'clock to get decent volume levels for bedroom playing, something is wrong. Problems rarely fix themselves.

 

[stash49]

You may have to relearn how to play, too. Give your berringer and crate stuff to a pre-teen. You'll never need your metal zone again-chuck it. Put ALL new tubes in your DR-mesa tubes work fine. I said ALL NEW TUBES, **** it- and save the old ones. Now go get a real recto cab with V30s-closed back. A good guitar, or at least good pick-ups. Get a planet waves instument cable, and monster speaker cable. Just get the money somewhere-sell your gamecube or something. Now,... Lets get rockin' ! :twisted:

 

[18&Life]

When you upgrade your amp to this level,you have to upgrade your cables (all of them),pickups,cabs and FINGERS :wink:

 

[Leng]

First, let me say, I have gone too far to come back now. I am a youngin', and I do need to remind myself from time to time that my patience is far less than you more mature players. I respect you all for your experience in this area and I am listening very intently.

Bare with me -- I'm remembering some old threads I was reading. There were a few gentlemen talking about when they first got their Dual Recs, they basically said that one should prepare to be disappointed.

This sounds strange to me, but I can see where you guys are coming from... I haven't even had the thing for 48 hours, and I'm disappointed. As I should have prepared to be. I thought the Mesa was going to be an immediate Godsend, not something I would have to tweak for weeks to get the tone I want.

I hear the potential, I'm just going to keep tweaking and ask you guys for help. I wouldn't even have this head if it weren't for your advice in choosing it, now I just need to bond with the head for a while and ask for more advice in getting it to where I want it.

Since I asked for the advice, I will take it.

Read the manual first,than try your settings,than talk to other owners.

I've read the whole manual twice and have been making long calls across the country for the past two weeks to get word of mouth advice from other Mesa owners both on choosing the amp and getting the tone I want.

Then Dude, get the recto checked out by a tech. If you have to crank the master to 2 or 3 O'clock to get decent volume levels for bedroom playing, something is wrong. Problems rarely fix themselves.

I only cranked the master to 2 o'clock with the "loop active master" set at barely above 0. With the "loop active master" at 9 o'clock and the master at 12 o'clock the thing sounds like it's going to break my windows. If I were to put the master up to 2 or 3 with the loop active master at 12 o'clock, I think the cops would be at my house in three minutes and I would need to see a doctor about my ears. I should have mentioned the overall master was very low whilst the individual channel's master was at 2.

You may have to relearn how to play, too. Give your berringer and crate stuff to a pre-teen. You'll never need your metal zone again-chuck it. Put ALL new tubes in your DR-mesa tubes work fine.

LOL! I'm still going to keep the Crate as a backup, it's tiny enough that 12 of them could fit in my DR's flight case. Very portable backup amp. I'll gladly chuck my metal zone out the window, although I'll miss it but not for long once I get the tone I want out of my Mesa.

And about the new tubes... the guy at my local shop said that he didn't recommend Mesa Tubes. They had a lot of different kinds of tubes and I read online that a lot of people like Ruby tubes best. So I bought Rubies to replace my rectifier tubes, unfortunately, he told me the shop won't be selling them anymore starting tomorrow. I bought the last two. This blows! They've sold them there for YEARS, and RIGHT when I get MY Mesa, they stop selling them!

 

[stash49]

There are no godsends, quick fixes, easy ways, secret techniques, etc. That's all a bunch or marketing designed to separate you from your hard earned cash. Go buy a Les Paul and Marshall stack, for example, and guess what? You aint gonna sound like Slash! You were setting yourself up to be dissapointed because you were unfamiliar with the context of some of these threads. Fine. Now that your over that, its time to roll up your sleves and get down to work-that is, if you really want to learn how be good-maybe even great someday. Anyone who went through what you have ought to be told the truth. Alot of crap around here is real geek stuff-like guys who have climbed Mount Everest debating the best way to sharpen your climbing spikes. Now, once you get the gear I recomended, take three months to explore that amp-and yourself. If you do, a moment WILL come, that you get a vision, and when that happens, your playing, and perhaps your life will never be the same. Just remember, there are no short cuts, quick fixes, or free rides. There is only the Path. Welcome to it.

 

[ur86d]

Then Dude, get the recto checked out by a tech. If you have to crank the master to 2 or 3 O'clock to get decent volume levels for bedroom playing, something is wrong. Problems rarely fix themselves.

I only cranked the master to 2 o'clock with the "loop active master" set at barely above 0. With the "loop active master" at 9 o'clock and the master at 12 o'clock the thing sounds like it's going to break my windows. If I were to put the master up to 2 or 3 with the loop active master at 12 o'clock, I think the cops would be at my house in three minutes and I would need to see a doctor about my ears. I should have mentioned the overall master was very low whilst the individual channel's master was at 2.

Hah hah hah. ok, now that makes sense, clears things up for me a lot. Based on what information was in your previous post's, sounded to me like there might be a mechanical problem with the amp. But since you can achieve window breaking volume, heh heh sounds like the amp is runing fine. it's probably just a matter of finding a good balance of knob twisting.

 

[Leng]

Hah hah hah. ok, now that makes sense, clears things up for me a lot. Based on what information was in your previous post's, sounded to me like there might be a mechanical problem with the amp. But since you can achieve window breaking volume, heh heh sounds like the amp is runing fine. it's probably just a matter of finding a good balance of knob twisting.

I was talking to Clutch71 on the phone and he said it might be a good idea to take the head in to a tech anyway, just because I did have to turn up the volume to get it to "pop" and start working like normal. Would it be a better idea, perhaps, before I do that, to wait and see if the problem ever returns?

Just remember, there are no short cuts, quick fixes, or free rides. There is only the Path. Welcome to it.

You do have a way with words, my friend. Good to be on the Mesa path. Trust me, I'm not this impatient when it comes to actually improving my technique, it is no exaggeration for me to say that I have played guitar multiple hours every day for the past 4 or 5 years. I'm just new to having to put that kind of patience into my tone, it's been pretty easy for me to get killer tone in the past. Or at least what I thought was killer tone. :twisted:

EDIT: Stash, I'm willing to get the gear you recommended, but wanted to see if I might already have part of it, mainly the pickups: I have a good guitar that originally came with shoddy pickups and replaced them with a Seymour Duncan JB in the bridge and a '59 in the neck. These are (I believe) the same pickups Adam Jones uses. Hopefully I'll be able to get the tone I need through these pickups. And about the tubes... Will it make a huge difference if I get Mesas or Rubies? Or is there another brand that's even better?

And, totally noob question: Should my head have five 12AX7's like the manual says? There's only 4 and a metal thing that looks about the same size. Also, will these preamp tubes be as easy to change as my rectifier tubes were, just pull while rocking left to right?

If you could, check out this site real quick:
http://www.mercasystems.com/s/ruby-tubes-c380.html?csid=347d69009f57086cc9042582b3b93894&sl=EN&currency=usd

I -think- those are the right 6L6's, 5U4G's, and 12AX7's, but there's other letters and stuff so I'm not sure. Would they work in my DR, cause those prices seem good (I don't really know though, being a noob sucks).

The site says I can pay extra "If you'd like your tubes matched". What does this mean and do I need it?

 

[ur86d]

I was talking to Clutch71 on the phone and he said it might be a good idea to take the head in to a tech anyway, just because I did have to turn up the volume to get it to "pop" and start working like normal. Would it be a better idea, perhaps, before I do that, to wait and see if the problem ever returns?

I agree with Clutch71. I didn't like the description of that pop either. I look at it this way, if you take it to a good tech and he finds nothing wrong you only lose a bench charge of about $50-$75 or so...in my opinion the peace of mind that $50-$75 would bring is worth it.

If on the other hand, he does find something wrong, It's defintely better to catch it sooner than later. because a simple problem could become a major and more expensive problem later on.

I don't know if this is your first tube amp or not, and how familiar you are with tube amps. If your not too familiar with them ,Defintely make sure about the impedence match between your cabinet and the recto. Improper, impedence matches can damage your amp.

 

[Bruceta]

There are no godsends, quick fixes, easy ways, secret techniques, etc. That's all a bunch or marketing designed to separate you from your hard earned cash. Go buy a Les Paul and Marshall stack, for example, and guess what? You aint gonna sound like Slash! You were setting yourself up to be dissapointed because you were unfamiliar with the context of some of these threads. Fine. Now that your over that, its time to roll up your sleves and get down to work-that is, if you really want to learn how be good-maybe even great someday. Anyone who went through what you have ought to be told the truth. Alot of crap around here is real geek stuff-like guys who have climbed Mount Everest debating the best way to sharpen your climbing spikes. Now, once you get the gear I recomended, take three months to explore that amp-and yourself. If you do, a moment WILL come, that you get a vision, and when that happens, your playing, and perhaps your life will never be the same. Just remember, there are no short cuts, quick fixes, or free rides. There is only the Path. Welcome to it.

Fantastic comment! I couldn't agree more!

 

[Leng]

I don't know if this is your first tube amp or not, and how familiar you are with tube amps. If your not too familiar with them ,Defintely make sure about the impedence match between your cabinet and the recto. Improper, impedence matches can damage your amp.

This is my first tube amp. The back of my DR looks like this:

I have a speaker cable going from the jack on the far left to a 16 ohm 400 watt cabinet, so I assumed I was good, hopefully so?

Again, if anyone could give me advice on the link to those Ruby tubes in my previous post, that'd be awesome so I can get them ordered and installed. Will those 6L6's and 12AX7's work, even though they have extra letters at the end?

 

[ur86d]

The impedence match looks good to me Leng. As far as ordering power tubes go for your mesa, your going to have to get ones that fall in the proper specifications.

Mesa's have a fixed bias, which can't be adjusted unless you take it to a tech and get the amp modded to allow for bias adjustments. It's debatable wheather fixed or adjustable bias is better, Randal Smith wrote an article about the subject which you can find on the mesa site if it's not in your recto manual. I got a liitle of topic here :lol: so, i'll get back to trying to give you the information you need right now.

Basicly what you need to do before ordering power tubes for your Recto, is to let the people you're ordering power tubes from know that you're putting them in a mesa recto, so they can give you tubes that will work correctly with a mesa boogie.

 

[sec34gtr]

Check it out.

Mesa gets their tubes from Ruby Tubes. Yup, that's right, stock Mesa amps come with Ruby Tubes.... So, if you're sold on Ruby, just buy some Mesa tubes (already within Mesa's tolerance) and it'll be plug and play.

From personal experience (which will vary on this board), buy the Mesa/Ruby tubes that the amps were designed around and you should get the optimum performance (as dictated by the fine people that designed and built the amp).

Trust the people that designed the amp, dude.

Good luck.

Oh, and just my 2 cents, the CPB150 and the MT2 probably rule by yourself in your bedroom, but live with a band, it ain't happenin'...

 

[Leng]

Thanks for the advice on the tubes, good information.

Oh, and just my 2 cents, the CPB150 and the MT2 probably rule by yourself in your bedroom, but live with a band, it ain't happenin'...

I'm beginning to see what you mean. I'm currently not gigging with anyone despite having the chops, but when I start that up, I bet I'll be much happier with the Mesa.

I was experimenting with using my MT2 in addition to my DR just to see how it changed the tone. With the distortion on the MT2 down but the level boosted a little, I began to hear the palm muted goodness I'm searching for.

Do you think an overdrive pedal would play nice with my DR and if so, might it be what I need to get the palm muted notes to sound more raw and clear?

Thanks again for all your advice.

 

[Charlie]

Btw something to keep in mind is that ALL tube amps need to be turned up to sound good. Some more so than others. So if you are going to be playing at low volume then your pedal + Crate is going to sound better. No surprise there.

Also I've found that the feel of a tube amp is much different than a solid state amp and your technique will probably need to adjust to it. I've found you need to work a little harder with a tube amp but the tone is worth it imho.

 

[theaero]

You may have to relearn how to play, too. Give your berringer and crate stuff to a pre-teen. You'll never need your metal zone again-chuck it. Put ALL new tubes in your DR-mesa tubes work fine. I said ALL NEW TUBES, **** it- and save the old ones. Now go get a real recto cab with V30s-closed back. A good guitar, or at least good pick-ups. Get a planet waves instument cable, and monster speaker cable. Just get the money somewhere-sell your gamecube or something. Now,... Lets get rockin' ! :twisted:

metalzones are great as a footswitchable low fi pedal. thats what i use it for. As for your choice of cabling, i disagree. Mogami for me plz

and chances are he doesnt need new preamp tubes. my 2cents

 

[clutch71]

Jake,

First off let's start by saying that I feel bad for what you are experiencing. Some member on this board are a little more patient than others and some are more loyal to Mesa and easily offended when you say things like , my Crate big block and metal zone sound better than my DR.

Since I've gotten into the game late in this post, I won't comment on a lot of the stuff other than to tell you to get the thing to an authorized Mesa Technician quick. Not only will they be able to tell you if there is anything wrong they can tell you if the tubes are any good. I'd start fresh with a stock set of Mesa's Tubes. Brand New STR 440's, a SPAX7 in V-1, stock 12AX7's V2-V5 just for arguments sake. That will give you a base to work from. Down the road you can't start experimenting with other tubes. With tube amps you can always use extra tubes.

As far as the palm muted stuff, without you telling me, i'll bet my DR that the Seymour Duncan JB in the bridge and a '59 in the neck are in that silverburst you have pictured on here. The DR, in proper working order with those pick ups, will give you that Adam Jones sound.

From interviews I've seen from Adam Jones, he doesn't really like talking about his gear. From old videos he ran old Marshalls and DR's and now uses Diezel. Now how he employs all that we most likely will ever know. In my experience, which is limited, a good set of humbuckers and a DR will get you closest to that sound period. Especially the revision F that you own.

Hang in there dude. Get that thing to a techincian and let us know what's up.

 

[pierre-olivier]

get the thing to an authorized Mesa Technician quick. Not only will they be able to tell you if there is anything wrong they can tell you if the tubes are any good. I'd start fresh with a stock set of Mesa's Tubes. Brand New STR 440's, a SPAX7 in V-1, stock 12AX7's V2-V5 just for arguments sake. That will give you a base to work from.

+1

Definitely take it to a tech. Nothing touches a real tube amp as far as tone is concerned, however compared to solid state amps they are waaaay less forgiving on user error!

Some people actually hurt their tube amps without even knowing they did something wrong! Even though all of this is stated in every tube amp manual, the previous owner(s) may not have took great care of the amp in many possible ways :
- by not warming-up/cooling-down in standby mode long enough, or at all
- by letting the amp turned on with no speaker plugged in
- by wrongly mismatching amp vs speaker impedance (the "bad" type of mistmatch)

Now since you read the manual, you already know all this. However, the previous owner(s) may not have read the manual at all...

Did the previous owner left the amp unplayed for a long time? If it's the case then the oxyde layer in the caps may have degraded, but once you played the amp (not driving it hard) for an hour this will normally have been fixed. Some caps may have failed altogether though. This may have to do with the pop you heard.

One last thing, as a previous ower of a solid-state setup (the first amp I had), I can tell you there is no comparison. Like others said, you are accustomed to your old rig. Send the Mesa to a tech, leave your Crate rig unplayed for a few weeks/months, spend that time with the Mesa, and then go back to your old rig. I'm pretty darn sure you will then hear how bad your older rig sounded in comparison... and you will never go back to solid-state ever again. Trust me, that's exactly what happened to me :wink:

 

[Leng]

Send the Mesa to a tech, leave your Crate rig unplayed for a few weeks/months, spend that time with the Mesa, and then go back to your old rig. I'm pretty darn sure you will then hear how bad your older rig sounded in comparison... and you will never go back to solid-state ever again. Trust me, that's exactly what happened to me

Well, I'm taking the amp to a professional and paying the $30 to have it checked out.

The measley $30 isn't the problem. The problem is that they're going to take my Mesa for a MONTH!! So I'll definitely be playing the hell out of my Crate for that time, then I'll put it away once I get my Mesa back. This actually might be a good thing, because in a month I can afford a brand new Mesa Recto cab and some monster cables.

Now that it's working, I'm scared they're going to break it or tell me something's wrong with it that isn't just so they can fix it or pretend to fix it. I've heard some bad stuff about Grandma's repair and will definitely let you guys know what they tell me with the estimate before I pay them $70 an hour to pretend to fix my head. There's a couple older gentlemen there, and the rest of them are about the same age as me, and I'm 19, so that's not a good thing.

As far as the palm muted stuff, without you telling me, i'll bet my DR that the Seymour Duncan JB in the bridge and a '59 in the neck are in that silverburst you have pictured on here. The DR, in proper working order with those pick ups, will give you that Adam Jones sound.

You're absolutely right about which guitar they're in... and it's good to hear from you that you think I'm going down the right path to get Adam's sound, coming from a fellow Tool fan with plenty of experience with DR's, that means much to me Dave. It's a little intimidating to have this DR with no experience beyond a few hours playing and reading these forums/the manual. Thanks for that.

 

[Leng]

New development. I was about to take the head to Grandma's Music and Sound cause they said they'd have a look at it. Turns out, they're not even a Mesa authorized repair shop.

They let me know the closest shop is in a different city - Santa Fe.

I called the original owner and talked with him more about what the problem might have been. He said that he had never had a single problem on the head.

The head was made in '92, and the owner I bought it from has had it since '94 or '95. He also really knows Boogies well, and would never turn it on without a proper cabinet attached and always let it standby for a while before playing it.

I'm going to go ahead and say that the head just needed to be played for a while because it did sit for a while with no action in his home in its flight case. There's not even any dust on the thing.

I'm also going to go ahead and buy a whole new set of tubes for it and after my next paycheck (Friday after next) buy a brand new Recto Cabinet for $899, unless you guys suggest I get a used cab.

 

[Rampage]

BUY A USED RECTO CAB! Seriously, if you buy one new and walk out of the store you lose about $400 instantly. Surf Craigslist and Backpage for one. They come up all the time for around $500, sometimes even less.