Bought a Mark VII!

[bandit2013]

Interesting.
Makes me wonder how the JP2C stacks up in a live band setting. It is not much different than the Mark VII in the IIC+ mode. Will have to look into that out of curiosity.

 

[bandit2013]

If for some reason an amp does not work in a live band setting, it could be related to the amps phase relative to the other amps in the mix. I often run several amps at the same time. Depending on what mode or voice I am using with a particular amp like the Triple Crown or Royal Atlantic in the lo gain channel or even the Badlander in crunch, it will be 180° out of phase with an amp that uses an even number of triode stages in its preamp like the JP2C, Mark V CH3, or the Mark VII (MKVII, IIC+ or IV modes). I have often found the clean modes to be in phase in general. I never tried to see if the bass rig interferes with the phasing effect. During Jam sessions I play drums, so I get bombarded with the guitar amp and bass. We are currently using the Badlander 100. Does not seem to matter if we are on Crunch or Crush. However, If we were to add another guitarist, if they wanted to use the Mark IV mode for everything, it will clash with the Badlander pushing the crunch mode. Effects will disappear, sound will get washed out and the louder amp wins in most cases. The Mark VII can dish out the volume no problem. So can the Badlander. The JP2C did not seem as loud but after going to the STR415 it has improved greatly. I believe the channel master volume pots are different as I would have to push it even farther. Perhaps I need to swap out the phase inverter tube? This coming week, if I can convince the guitar player to run through the Mark VII, I will get a better idea how it stacks up. He seems to fear an amp with more than a few knobs on it. He generally likes to set the amp with high gain, low volume and make it sound like crap, I guess to him it is ideal. Reason why I gave up recording the jam sessions. He finds something to complain about, the last jam session pissed me off, "you have the amp set up to the point the neighbors will call the cops". The next day, the bass player agreed I had it set the right way. He wears ear plugs and I can see why. That has never stopped me from playing at any time of the day, night or 3am to 5am. Perhaps my playing is better than his? I often got complements from my neighbors while walking the dog around the block during lunch and I play loud, just enough not to kill my eardrums. Our jam sessions are just for fun, but it is getting worse every time. Not every amp is for everyone. I am willing to bet phasing may have a part in why one may not like an amp in a live setting. It does not sound very good when soundwaves start to get cancelled out. If you are out of phase, your impression will not be great and think to ditch the new gear that does not work out the first time in use in a live setting without understanding the actual reason it sucks in the first place. I am not trying to target anyone with this post. I am just making a general comment on phasing and how it can ruin the sound in a live setting. I am sure this occurs many times with others too. I would have to pull out the Roadster and MWDR to see if there are any phase relationships to be discovered. I have often considered rephasing my pickups when using the Roadster in hopes to gain back the harmonics as that amp tends to fight pinch offs and creates dead spots on the fretboard that do not exist when I use the same guitar with a different amp. I can experiment with a Ditto looper and run a bass line with the TT800. Then see if the Mark VII rocks or flops. I am curious to find out one way or another. TBH, I tried running the JP2C against the Badlander when the other guitar player and the bass player were here. It too got lost in the mix but that was before I changed the power tubes. Had the STR443 which in my opinion are lame. I think the guitar player at the time was running the crunch mode which will be out of phase to the JP2C. Next time I will set it up with the crush and see what happens. this Wednesday.

 

[bandit2013]

I started looking for any videos on the Mark VII in respect to live mix. Not many except for one but this was not a live setting more of a multi-track arrangement. Going this route, you can make changes in the mix to enhance the sound, such as phasing if possible. Most videos on the Mark VII has this method. Never saw any live band use. Perhaps there is something up with that or the amp is too new?



Then the usual, compare this to that: Came across one comparison to the Road King, I assume it is a road king cab? It was the slant front but with the larger top shelf format. Could be an early 280W cab. Don't know. The Road King sounded great, the Mark VII sounded poor. Then I watched a video on the combo Mark VII, noted the following, the MC90 speaker sounds like crap! If my suspicions are correct, that cab in the video is a Road King cab? It may be just the standard oversized with the flat front look. 280W? The Mark VII also sounded terrible with the 412 cab in the video.
That Road King sounded killer.



Here is the combo video: It sounds washed out, is it the MC90 effect? I ran my Mark VII head into a widebody 112 open back cab I loaded with an EVM12L classic and it sounded way better than this.



I have rolled out my 412 cabs just for S&Gs. The SPL level was over the top. I ran the two Badlanders in the V30 loaded 412 cabs and the Mark VII with the EVM12L Black label cab. I literally could not be in the room as it was overwhelming but did not notice any poor quality at stage volume from the Mark VII. Perhaps it is the EV speakers? Will have to see how the V30 (240W) cabs sound. I basically run the Vertical 212 cab as they are much easier to manage (volume wise) in the room than the 412 cabs.

My curiosity is peaked why the Mark VII does not work out live. Would love to year your comments.

 

[bandit2013]

Sorry dlpasco for hijacking your post.

 

[GJgo]

Interesting.
Makes me wonder how the JP2C stacks up in a live band setting. It is not much different than the Mark VII in the IIC+ mode. Will have to look into that out of curiosity.

The JP is MUCH better live. While the OG smokes it in the bedroom & studio, live the JP is a very solid choice IMO.

 

[GJgo]

Just curious, do you have a youtube channel and did you do some Mark VII demo videos? I remember seeing a few videos about the amp being great until played live with a band. Sounded similar to your experience.

Yes, here's my channel.

https://www.youtube.com/@TIGHTENmetal/videos

 

[bandit2013]

Yes, here's my channel.

https://www.youtube.com/@TIGHTENmetal/videos

I thought you seemed familiar. I have found some of your videos running tube swaps. I took a gander at your channel. You sir have done a lot of work. Great stuff. Great work on your tone quest too. Psychological Incarceration, that amp sounded killer.

I can tell by your videos that you go to the ninth degree with what you do, and I respect that fully. I could not place the username with the videos I have seen. Now I understand where you are coming from. You are right, I feel the MK7 may be missing something that the JP2C has. I was spending some time with the JP2C today and the MK7. The JP2C is unreal and unrivaled in comparison especially with the STR415 on board. That amp just keeps sounding better the more I play though it. Even the Mark V90 has something to boast about once you get it where you need it. Not sure how that would stack up in a live mix but I assume it is good as many use that amp. I could only wish to get a few of those amps you have. Very awesome collection of gear.

 

[playingitloud]

I had purchased the MKVII a few months ago and I had found the MKVII to be an extremely loud amp and needed to be turned up to sound good, otherwise, it had felt/sounded like the tone was being choked.

Initially, I thought the MKVII was too loud for home office playing and I was thinking about selling it.

However, I have a Fryette PS-100 that made my Road King sound killer so I tried it with the MKVII.

The MKVII sounded killer through the PS-100 so I decided to purchase a second MKVII and started to place my other Mark’s up for sale.

I have not played the MKVII in a band setting but it sounds the best to me out of all the other Mark’s that I have owned (and own).

A buddy of mine is selling off all of his Mark’s in order to purchase another MKVII (he is a performing/touring/recording artist).

I have never owned a JP2C so I am not able to provide a comparison.

 

[bandit2013]

The JP2C is a power house IMHO. There is just something with the delivery of cords and how single notes sound. That amp is unique and I cannot get the same effect with the Mark VII.

 

[playingitloud]

The JP2C is a power house IMHO. There is just something with the delivery of cords and how single notes sound. That amp is unique and I cannot get the same effect with the Mark VII.

I'll have to put it on my list of amps to check out later this year.

Hopefully, I will not like it as much as the MKVII since I was hoping that I had stopped tone chasing for this year 😂

 

[bandit2013]

I'll have to put it on my list of amps to check out later this year.

Hopefully, I will not like it as much as the MKVII since I was hoping that I had stopped tone chasing for this year 😂

Think of it this way, the Mark VII has it covered. In order to get the JP2C where it needs to be you have to invest in alternate power tubes. Specifically the Mesa STR415. That will cost $500 per set if they still have them available. You also need to go through special channels to get them as they are not a listed item for sale. The other alternative is the STR448 power tube which as close as it can get to the STR415 but different. I also tried the STR445 tubes in the JP2C and that too was promising. The STR443 tubes they have used in the amp is like they are trying to keep sales down on the amp. Those tubes are just lame. I tried them and lost interest in the JP2C.

Considering my session last night after I got the MKVII put back together, it is also a power house amp.
The MKVII does have a bloom in its voice when you get the volume up to noon or higher. More musical content becomes available. You will need to adjust accordingly for stage use.

I believe the mistake that many will do is to max out the gain and expect it to sound good at stage volume. There is a bit of a learning curve with this amp, just like all the rest. The volume control is not just volume as it also introduces more power amp clipping. This amp does have more gain on tap than the Mark V90 or even the Mark IVb. I find it hard to believe that this amp would not work in a live band setting. Anything is possible. Depends on the depth of sound you are after. Also, not all amps like to be pushed with external overdrive pedals. That is generally an excuse to compensate for something that is lacking. I have seen a video comparing the MKVII to a RoadKing. Yep, the creator of the video used a distortion pedal and it just sounded like ___________. It was not a good match for the cabinet either as it sounded like it had MC90 in use. If I had a combo form of the MkVII, the first thing I would rip out would be the speaker. This amp will thrive with the EVM12L Classic or Black Label. I have one in an openback 112 cab and it sounded incredible with the MKVII. Takes me back to the Mark III days when I had the combo with the Black Shadow EV12L speaker. Hint, the JP2C also excels with the EV speaker. The Mark V90 in stock form does not, nor did the Mark IVb, probably due to preamp tuning. At least the Mark V90 can be recovered with some preamp and power tube changes to be on par with the Mark VII.

 

[GJgo]

For the Baby Fives, (I don't recall on the big V), JP2C, and MkVII, in order to get it to open up & bloom you have to crank the presence & compensate with 6600. Otherwise they're 2D & flat compared to the MKII, III and IV. Although, presence down does help to get a bedroom volume.

On the OGs this trick can help to open them up but it's not required like it is on the modern ones (if you want a 3D open sound).

 

[playingitloud]

Think of it this way, the Mark VII has it covered. In order to get the JP2C where it needs to be you have to invest in alternate power tubes. Specifically the Mesa STR415. That will cost $500 per set if they still have them available. You also need to go through special channels to get them as they are not a listed item for sale. The other alternative is the STR448 power tube which as close as it can get to the STR415 but different. I also tried the STR445 tubes in the JP2C and that too was promising. The STR443 tubes they have used in the amp is like they are trying to keep sales down on the amp. Those tubes are just lame. I tried them and lost interest in the JP2C.

Considering my session last night after I got the MKVII put back together, it is also a power house amp.
The MKVII does have a bloom in its voice when you get the volume up to noon or higher. More musical content becomes available. You will need to adjust accordingly for stage use.

I believe the mistake that many will do is to max out the gain and expect it to sound good at stage volume. There is a bit of a learning curve with this amp, just like all the rest. The volume control is not just volume as it also introduces more power amp clipping. This amp does have more gain on tap than the Mark V90 or even the Mark IVb. I find it hard to believe that this amp would not work in a live band setting. Anything is possible. Depends on the depth of sound you are after. Also, not all amps like to be pushed with external overdrive pedals. That is generally an excuse to compensate for something that is lacking. I have seen a video comparing the MKVII to a RoadKing. Yep, the creator of the video used a distortion pedal and it just sounded like ___________. It was not a good match for the cabinet either as it sounded like it had MC90 in use. If I had a combo form of the MkVII, the first thing I would rip out would be the speaker. This amp will thrive with the EVM12L Classic or Black Label. I have one in an openback 112 cab and it sounded incredible with the MKVII. Takes me back to the Mark III days when I had the combo with the Black Shadow EV12L speaker. Hint, the JP2C also excels with the EV speaker. The Mark V90 in stock form does not, nor did the Mark IVb, probably due to preamp tuning. At least the Mark V90 can be recovered with some preamp and power tube changes to be on par with the Mark VII.

I did find the MKVII sounds killer through my Mesa Boogie 4x12 that has a pair of older V30’s and a pair of older EVM12L’s.

It’s a perfect match 😃

 

[bandit2013]

I would agree on the EV speakers. the Mark VII is killer through those. I have an oversized Recto 412 loaded with them. Also have a 112 cab with an EV classic.

Two top choices of amps with the EVM12L : Mark VII and the JP2C. The EV loaded 412 cab is a bit too much for a small room. The open back 112 widebody cab just works. I also have the EV classic in the Mark V90 combo. It is voiced quite differently than the Mark VII and JP2C. If Mesa offered the Mark VII as a combo with the EV speaker, I would have considered that as an option to buy. MC90, not thanks. Not into replacing speakers when the dust cap falls off the cone. That always seemed to be the issue I have had with MC90 in the combo amps I have owned, Mark VIb and now the Mark V90. Not sure if anything has changed over the years with that speaker.

 

[Revelation]

I tried pulling the chassis and putting it into my Imbuya head. Looks good, but it's far too tight (I actually broke the post on a tube trying to move it so that I could get the reverb tank plugged in ). So that's probably not a viable option.

I've sent an email to Mesa to find out if I can order a head enclosure for it, just for flexibility if nothing else.

I'm surprised Randall did not think in the design, why don't I put all this amp in a 23" wide body so I don't have to cram everything inside this 19" box. That would make working on the amp easier for techs and certain circuits would not get too hot.

 

[Revelation]

I started looking for any videos on the Mark VII in respect to live mix. Not many except for one but this was not a live setting more of a multi-track arrangement. Going this route, you can make changes in the mix to enhance the sound, such as phasing if possible. Most videos on the Mark VII has this method. Never saw any live band use. Perhaps there is something up with that or the amp is too new?



Then the usual, compare this to that: Came across one comparison to the Road King, I assume it is a road king cab? It was the slant front but with the larger top shelf format. Could be an early 280W cab. Don't know. The Road King sounded great, the Mark VII sounded poor. Then I watched a video on the combo Mark VII, noted the following, the MC90 speaker sounds like crap! If my suspicions are correct, that cab in the video is a Road King cab? It may be just the standard oversized with the flat front look. 280W? The Mark VII also sounded terrible with the 412 cab in the video.
That Road King sounded killer.



Here is the combo video: It sounds washed out, is it the MC90 effect? I ran my Mark VII head into a widebody 112 open back cab I loaded with an EVM12L classic and it sounded way better than this.



I have rolled out my 412 cabs just for S&Gs. The SPL level was over the top. I ran the two Badlanders in the V30 loaded 412 cabs and the Mark VII with the EVM12L Black label cab. I literally could not be in the room as it was overwhelming but did not notice any poor quality at stage volume from the Mark VII. Perhaps it is the EV speakers? Will have to see how the V30 (240W) cabs sound. I basically run the Vertical 212 cab as they are much easier to manage (volume wise) in the room than the 412 cabs.

My curiosity is peaked why the Mark VII does not work out live. Would love to year your comments.

I am a sound engineer; if a guitar is not heard in the mix live, alot has to do with the compressor settings beings used on the guitar channel, EQ including give the guitar its own space frequency wise so it's not competing with the same frequency's of a keyboard or vocal track

 

[Revelation]

Think of it this way, the Mark VII has it covered. In order to get the JP2C where it needs to be you have to invest in alternate power tubes. Specifically the Mesa STR415. That will cost $500 per set if they still have them available. You also need to go through special channels to get them as they are not a listed item for sale. The other alternative is the STR448 power tube which as close as it can get to the STR415 but different. I also tried the STR445 tubes in the JP2C and that too was promising. The STR443 tubes they have used in the amp is like they are trying to keep sales down on the amp. Those tubes are just lame. I tried them and lost interest in the JP2C.

Considering my session last night after I got the MKVII put back together, it is also a power house amp.
The MKVII does have a bloom in its voice when you get the volume up to noon or higher. More musical content becomes available. You will need to adjust accordingly for stage use.

I believe the mistake that many will do is to max out the gain and expect it to sound good at stage volume. There is a bit of a learning curve with this amp, just like all the rest. The volume control is not just volume as it also introduces more power amp clipping. This amp does have more gain on tap than the Mark V90 or even the Mark IVb. I find it hard to believe that this amp would not work in a live band setting. Anything is possible. Depends on the depth of sound you are after. Also, not all amps like to be pushed with external overdrive pedals. That is generally an excuse to compensate for something that is lacking. I have seen a video comparing the MKVII to a RoadKing. Yep, the creator of the video used a distortion pedal and it just sounded like ___________. It was not a good match for the cabinet either as it sounded like it had MC90 in use. If I had a combo form of the MkVII, the first thing I would rip out would be the speaker. This amp will thrive with the EVM12L Classic or Black Label. I have one in an openback 112 cab and it sounded incredible with the MKVII. Takes me back to the Mark III days when I had the combo with the Black Shadow EV12L speaker. Hint, the JP2C also excels with the EV speaker. The Mark V90 in stock form does not, nor did the Mark IVb, probably due to preamp tuning. At least the Mark V90 can be recovered with some preamp and power tube changes to be on par with the Mark VII.

With my limited use so far with the Mark VII, the 45 watt settings sounds good but not as full as the full 90 watt. However it seems the 25 watt offers a tighter and smaller sound that I would not want to use as much.

What are your thoughts on the different wattage settings on the Mark VII? The manual on page 12 surprised me on the strengths of thr 25 watt mode that intriguing. Once I get my amp this week, I will be trying out some of their recommended settings.

 

[bandit2013]

Ok, so you did play it before placing an order.

TBH, I could not tell the difference in volume or power between the 90W, 45W and 25W when pushing air with a vertical 212. It may be due to hearing loss. I had to connect the Rivera Rock Crusher to see if there was any difference in the peak power level from the amp. Yes, there is a difference. Peak power will be much higher than rated power as that is usually measured at a single frequency. Playing the guitar through the amp will have more delivered power due to the lower frequencies of the E string or B string if using a 7 stringer. All three power modes sounded really good. The difference between them was not dramatic like it was for the Mark V90.

Surprised that the 25W had a tighter feel to it. It will sound smaller but that is due to triode operation of the 45W pair. That I did confirm with the Mark V90, running that in 45W on CH3 and switching to triode mode. You do get some volume drop and it is very similar to the 25W setting on the Mark VII.

Also have not explored the manual other than the tube task chart. Wanted a better understanding what each mode was doing. Spend more time dialing in the Mark VII to match the JP2C or the Badlander. This was before I got replacement preamp tubes in. I knew one was microphonic and what I did to manage that was to rearrange them. I could have used some older Mesa preamp tubes I have on hand. Figured to retain the original tubes as much as possible in case of issue and had to send the amp back for warranty. So far, all is well. I basically replaced all of the preamp tubes with new one's just for kicks and now it even sounds much better. Not as bright as it was before and is much more musical if that makes any sense. In other words, the change in tubes with Mesa branded tubes of a new batch provided a gain in tone density and note definition. Sooner or later I will run through the suggested settings and see how that fairs. Never did that with the Badlander though, perhaps I should.

 

[Revelation]

I purchased the Mesa Boogie Mark VII combo amp today from Guitar Center. I was able to get one from their warehouse which I opened and inspected at the store before I left. I was surprised of how many things were stuffed in the back of the amp which was hard to get out. A large brown bag that had 4 wheels inside, a smaller bag with the manual, a large foot pedal, a long cable for the foot pedal and the A/C chord for the amp. All which have to come out on the left side of the amp as the tubes were on the right. Removing it without pushing on the speaker or speaker wire in the back was a slow gentle task. Putting on the wheels were easy and I like the amp lifted off the ground.

As there was a thread about different volumes on channel 1 vs 2 and 3, I confirmed all channels had pretty much the same volume at the same setting. No dings were found, EQ sliders and the body of the amp all looked good. What striked me was how small the amp is. In one way, I would have preferred if they made this amp the size of a Fender Blues Deluxe or Fender Deluxe reverb, both that have a one 12" speaker. With the larger cabinet, one would think it would have a fuller and less tight sound. Perhaps with more air and things spread out more, a fan would not be needed inside the Mark VII. I found the graphic EQ to be very powerful in adding more punch or reducing freq's. Reverb knobs on the front and the whole layout was easy to follow. The fan reminds me of the noise from a small fish tank motor. It is heard but its not annoying with its low mid hum.

I compared it quickly with my Express 5:25 which has a richer tone and limited mids. It sounds great and the burn knob had a polite distortion to it. The Mark VII has a more open sound and providing a lot mids.

The clean channel I would say rivals the Fender Deluxe reverb. I turned off the graphic EQ, boosted the bass to 3 o'clock, reduced the treble and presence knobs to 11 o'clock and gain at 9 oclock at the full 90 watts. I was able to get a great jazz tone with my 335. Granted having two 12's in my Fender Twin provides a fuller low end, but I can imagine it would give the Deluxe Reverb a run for its money with a humbucking guitar. In adding the graphic EQ and just boosting the two left sliders, it adds this fullness to the amp that you would not expect from just one 12" speaker. I am thinking I might tweak it to my taste and use channel 1 mostly when I want the clean sound along with perhaps some pedals. It really sounds great. However when using my Silver Sky, the top end sounds thinner on the Boogie. I had to tweak the amp a bit to correct this.

Bold provides a fuller low end and has a little less sparkle than the clean channel. For making a single coil pickup have a fuller sound might want to try this mode out. I prefer this channel with my Silver Sky.

Crunch is a med distortion that sounds great on both humbucker and single coil pickups. Great for distorted rthy guitar and even some lead guitar.

Mode II B has a similar tonality as the clean mode with my Silver Sky. I prefer this mode with humbuckers. Mark II C sounds great in both single coil and humbucker guitars.

Mark VII is like a punchier Crunch mode without pushing overdrive distortion. That is the job for the Mark IV mode which is wonderful.
I will provide more opinions after I spend more time with it. But right now, I am very happy with the amp.

 

[bandit2013]

It looks like you are going to loose a caster on the right front side. It is just hanging in the track. Those spring loaded buttons in the caster plates can be tricky sometimes. the setup does work. Way better than the casters with the peg post that just pop-in, when you lift they pop right out.

The compact cab does look small relative to the other amps. Mark III was about the same size but 10 lbs heavier, that is if it was equipped with the BlackShadow EVM12L speaker. That amp weighed more than the Mark IVB combo which was wider, at least that is how it felt to me, not actual weight measurements, just the perceived weight difference.

I spy a Strymon BigSky. Ah a timeline too. Still figuring out that one.