Blanket over my cabinet sound

[Jmcthe3rd]

Hello ALL. I have a 1995 2-channel Triple Rectifier and it sounds like there is a light blanket over the cabinet. I can't quite get the high end crunch necessary for good palm muting. I have a Mesa oversized rectifier 4X12, a rectifier 2X12 a Marshall 1960A. I have moved around between Vintage 30's and T75's in all of the cabinets in different combinations and can't quite get the blanket sound to go away. I have put in new 6L6's and have also put in Winged C EL-34's and it's still there. I do boost the front of the head with a Tonefreak Severe and a Zvex SHO. A serial mod was done to the effects loop. In there I run a DBX 215 with only the the bass cut engaged. I also run Les Paul's with a Seymour Duncan JB. I've though about a bias mod but, I'm not sure that will help. All the reviews I've read said it really warms up the amp. I don't need it warmer I need it to cut more. I've also toyed with the idea of sending it for a FJA mod but, am just not sure. Any suggestions would be helpful.

Thanks.

James

 

[Rkorn]

Have you tried it without the boost???? Guitar --> Amp (fx loop OFF)

 

[Jmcthe3rd]

Yes I have. Without the boost and the F/X off it's really thick and too bassy with not much cut at all. It's almost like there's sooo much bass on tap it just takes away the definition. I have the Bass knob turned almost all of the way off. Here are my settings:
Master 9:00
Presence 1:00
Bass 7:30
Mid 11:30
Treble 2:30
Gain 2:00-2:30

I'm also running in the "Modern" mode on the red channel Bold/Silicone diodes.

 

[YellowJacket]

This is very odd. In my experience, Rectos always have a very crisp and defined high end.

Stupid question, have you changed the preamp tubes? If your preamp tubes are acting up, it is no wonder you are having so much trouble.

Other suggestions.

-change the electronics on your Les Paul. Go with 500k CTS audio taper pots, 0.22 MicroFarad Paper in Oil Capacitors, and hook up everything using 50s style wiring. This should open up your tone immensely.

-if you can afford it, seriously look into Bare Knuckle Pickups or other hand wound boutique items. This should really kill the mud and open up the sound!

 

[Jmcthe3rd]

I replaced the preamp tubes with stock Mesa preamp tubes about a year ago. (It's been happening for over a year)

Any suggestions on were to get the 500K CTS pots and .22 MicroFarad Paper oil Capacitors on-line at the same place? (I've never bought this stuff on-line before)
Thanks.

 

[espboogie123]

I replaced the preamp tubes with stock Mesa preamp tubes about a year ago. (It's been happening for over a year)
.

If you replaced all the pre tubes with the newer mesa tubes, then you replaced the entire preamp section with JJ tubes which in some/most amps with darken the amp. That could be your blanket...

 

[Jmcthe3rd]

Does anyone know the original brand of pre-amps tubes installed in rectifiers in 1995? I wouldn't mind buying a set of those and giving them a try.

 

[fluff191]

Does anyone know the original brand of pre-amps tubes installed in rectifiers in 1995? I wouldn't mind buying a set of those and giving them a try.

They were STR Chinese Shuguang's.

I have a 2 Channel Recto and run an EH 12ax7 Gold Pin in V1 and the rest Shuguang. Sounds INSANE!!!
There is a clip in my signature if you want to know what it sounds like.

espboogie123 is absolutely right. Get those stock Mesa tubes out of there.

 

[RussB]

Here you go, Chinese 9th gen

http://www.kcanostubes.com/content/shuguang-r9-ninth-generation-12ax7

I prefer the "Low Noise & Microphonics" graded tubes in Hi-Gain amps

 

[RussB]

-change the electronics on your Les Paul. Go with 500k CTS audio taper pots, 0.22 MicroFarad Paper in Oil Capacitors, and hook up everything using 50s style wiring. This should open up your tone immensely.

Many Les Pauls came with 300k linear volume pots. Swapping them for 500k audio taper pots will give you more top end.

LP's come stock with .022uf caps. Using PIO won't change anything except remove a $20 from you bank account. If you're one to always leave the tone pots on "10" then the cap is out of the circuit anyways...


Does "opening" tone mean make it brighter?

 

[YellowJacket]

Any suggestions on were to get the 500K CTS pots and .22 MicroFarad Paper oil Capacitors on-line at the same place? (I've never bought this stuff on-line before)
Thanks.

I got my stuff from http://www.mojotone.com.

-change the electronics on your Les Paul. Go with 500k CTS audio taper pots, 0.22 MicroFarad Paper in Oil Capacitors, and hook up everything using 50s style wiring. This should open up your tone immensely.

Many Les Pauls came with 300k linear volume pots. Swapping them for 500k audio taper pots will give you more top end.

LP's come stock with .022uf caps. Using PIO won't change anything except remove a $20 from you bank account. If you're one to always leave the tone pots on "10" then the cap is out of the circuit anyways...

I enthusiastically disagree with you on the capacitor point. The capacitors are in the circuit so they bleed electricity no matter whether you have your knobs cranked wide open or not. Of course, they make the largest difference as you roll the tone knobs down but the tone overall is generally warmer.
I also started using my volume and tone pots A LOT after I upgraded my electronics. Like most people, I just left the volume and tone pots on 10 because rolling back the tone knob sucked tone out of the guitar. The muddy and boomy mess that resulted was unusable and unmusical, something I found incredibly distasteful. Upon completing the mod, I was surprised how much more versatile my rig had become. Having usable volume and tone controls basically takes an amp that can do 2 tones and gives MANY. With the PIO caps, you can get some absolutely mind blowing jazz tones with the tone pot near zero. With Ceramic Disc caps, as you roll down the tone knob, the tone of the instrument becomes dull and lifeless. It is really muddy and boomy sounding. With the PIO caps, as you roll down the tone knob, the tone becomes warm and woody. Nearing 0 on the tone knob, the midrange starts to gain prominence and it really sings.

Does "opening" tone mean make it brighter?

It isn't that simple. It sounds like someone takes a blanket off of the guitar. The stock electronics stifle or 'choke' the tone from the pickups, making them sound clinical or dull.
When swapping the electronics, the tone doesn't become brighter as in thinner and more brilliant. With the 50s mod, it becomes much more urgent and aggressive. It is brash, dynamic, and up front, with lots of articulation. The guitar just sounds much closer to the amp.

Sorry to post such a strong response, but I think this is one of the least expensive and most effective mods one can do to a guitar. Based on my experience, I thought you misrepresented it grossly. When I upgraded my Les Paul, I swapped the pickups first and then the electronics after. I kid you not, the pickup swap made barely any difference. The electronics swap was night and day.

 

[RussB]

This isn't magic, it's simple electronics. Swapping a 300k pot for a 500k pot gives you a stronger (more output voltage from the pups), brighter (passes higher frequencies). Descriptive adjectives are fun, but it's really quite simple. I've been doing this "stuff" for a long time, you too I reckon. I have PIO caps in some guitars, some have various polyester caps, some ceramic caps. Done all the swapping around a person can do in 3+ decades

A cap is a cap is a cap. There's some pretty smart guys out there that feel the same way, and have done some double-blind testing to prove it. I've picked my side of the fence, as have you :mrgreen:

 

[YellowJacket]

Just like a tube is a tube is a tube, a cable is a cable is a cable, and a magnet is a magnet is a magnet.

 

[Blaklynx]

Apart from equipment,

Have you had a hearing test? Usually the top end diminishes if the ears are punished long enough. Things start to sound muffled as time goes on. There's no return. Getting older doesn't help either; nature takes care of that.

There may be wax build up in the ear that you may not be aware of?

 

[Jmcthe3rd]

My ears have probably endured more then they have should but, I don't think that is causing the issue. I have gone and listened to other bands live and never felt they had the "Blanket of the amp" issue I have. My logic is that if my ears were shot then ALL high gain amps would probably have the same blanket issue and it just seems to be mine.

 

[YellowJacket]

My ears have probably endured more then they have should but, I don't think that is causing the issue. I have gone and listened to other bands live and never felt they had the "Blanket of the amp" issue I have. My logic is that if my ears were shot then ALL high gain amps would probably have the same blanket issue and it just seems to be mine.

Some ideas:

1) Take your guitar to a music shop and AB it against other guitars through the amps they have there.
If this narrows the problem down to your guitar, then you know upgrading it or possibly acquiring another instrument will solve the problem.

Like I said earlier, swapping the Pickups and Electronics will make a HUGE difference. I strongly suggest looking into Bare Knuckle Pickups if you want your guitar to REALLY crunch. The tone from these things is incredibly clear and huge. You'll be surprised how much more detail and how much less mud you hear.

BK Painkiller
http://www.bareknucklepickups.co.uk/main/pickups.php?cat=humbuckers&sub=contemporary&pickup=painkiller

BK Miracle Man
http://www.bareknucklepickups.co.uk/main/pickups.php?cat=humbuckers&sub=contemporary&pickup=miracle_man

BK Black Dog
http://www.bareknucklepickups.co.uk/main/pickups.php?cat=humbuckers&sub=vintage_hot&pickup=black_dog

2) Retube your amp and see if it solves the problem. If not perhaps take it to a tech and have it looked over.
If you narrow the problem down to your amp, the tubes are most likely the problem. Some 6L6 tubes will have a much brighter response than others. You said you changed the power tubes so I'd do some investigating into preamp tube options. If you can't get it to work with the tubes, it might be something else.

 

[RussB]

Jmcthe3rd,

Was the amp (and your overall tone) fine before, but "blanketed" now? What I'm getting at is if there's been a change, or you've been struggling with tone right along

 

[YellowJacket]

Jmcthe3rd,

Was the amp (and your overall tone) fine before, but "blanketed" now? What I'm getting at is if there's been a change, or you've been struggling with tone right along

Great question. For a boogie to be 'blanketed', it seems VERY VERY odd. The Rectos tend to be very bright with a bite in the high end. Perhaps he is running the head in 'vintage' mode instead of modern. JMCTHE3RD, perhaps check the channel cloning switches on the back of your amp. Make sure red channel is running in the middle position, not in 'red to vintage' mode.

 

[caterplotheawful]

so, I know this is going to sound really counter-intuitive, but hear me out. I have a Series 1 Rectoverb, which i think is kind of similar to some of the earlier 2 channel duals and triples.

Have you tried turning the treble WAY down (like 9:00 or lower) and then cranking the mids? also make sure your bass control is 10 or 11:00 or lower. The EQ controls on Mesas are super weird, and the treble actually affects the other controls pretty drastically. I found that when I rolled off the treble and cranked the mids it really made the amp cut.

 

[screamingdaisy]

I replaced the preamp tubes with stock Mesa preamp tubes about a year ago. (It's been happening for over a year)

Mesa's been relabelling JJ ECC83s since sometime in 2008.

JJ ECC83s sound like there's blanket over your cabinet. Sometimes it's nice to use them mixed with other tubes, but all JJs is usually a recipe for dull tone.

I'm pretty sure that Mesa's weren't using 9th gen Chinese tubes back in 1995. Probably would've been Sovtek or EHX. My 2003 Recto came with EHX and I liked them better than the JJs my current Recto came with. Doug's Tubes lists a "tube cocktail" that's recommended for the Recto... I haven't tried it myself, but others have had good success with it.