best mesa for cleans?
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I played the Lonestar at GC and I definately thought it was the bees knees (thats good). I have a roadster and I really love channel 2 on fat.
The only problem with the roadster is that the clean channels have far less power.
I have to turn channels one and two all the way up just to match the volume of channels three and four set to like 11 o'clock.
Does anyone else have this kinda problem?
The only problem with the roadster is that the clean channels have far less power.
I have to turn channels one and two all the way up just to match the volume of channels three and four set to like 11 o'clock.
Does anyone else have this kinda problem?
buddaman71
Active member
I have been gigging 2-4 nights a week for the last year with my 2 original Lone Star Classics in stereo, and I have found them to be the richest cleans I have ever had. I can achieve a nice full, chimey clean that is bright without any icepick highs.
A+++
(PS: Full on 100 watt setting is very hard to beat for true clean tones.)
A+++
(PS: Full on 100 watt setting is very hard to beat for true clean tones.)
The best cleans are probably the Lonestars and other amps that the circuit has made it into (Roadster/Road King). The F-Series and Express amps have very nice cleans as well, though not really in the same league. Both of those will get you into Fender territory.
To me, the Lonestar sounds a lot like the old Twin sitting in the back of your local music shop that was lovingly played by somebody for forty-odd years, worn out in that perfect way where every note is lively and bouncy, and all of the icepick has been played out of the speakers.
The F-Series and Express amps remind me more of a reissue Twin. It's a great sound, but not really in the same class as the Lonestar. It's a little stiffer and less bouncy, and the upper midrange is more prominent.
If I were to buy a Mesa for the cleans, I'd definitely go the Lonestar route, though I think I would get a Roadster -- the cost isn't much different, and you get three times as many sounds. Still, your ears, not our opinions, are the ultimate judge -- go to your dealer with your favorite guitar and check the amps out.
To me, the Lonestar sounds a lot like the old Twin sitting in the back of your local music shop that was lovingly played by somebody for forty-odd years, worn out in that perfect way where every note is lively and bouncy, and all of the icepick has been played out of the speakers.
The F-Series and Express amps remind me more of a reissue Twin. It's a great sound, but not really in the same class as the Lonestar. It's a little stiffer and less bouncy, and the upper midrange is more prominent.
If I were to buy a Mesa for the cleans, I'd definitely go the Lonestar route, though I think I would get a Roadster -- the cost isn't much different, and you get three times as many sounds. Still, your ears, not our opinions, are the ultimate judge -- go to your dealer with your favorite guitar and check the amps out.
HalfDeaf
Well-known member
I've heard a lot of buzz about the Lonestar Special. El84s are becoming really popular for awesome cleans - check one out.
I play a mkiv, and while it doesn't have the best cleans, they can get quite good, even at very loud volumes, with some tweaking. If you're interested in a mkiv, try one on the Rhythm 1 channel with the gain knob at 3 and pulled for bright. Most people run the gain too high for cleans and then it can sound somewhat flat and uninspiring. If it turns out that you like the mkiv cleans, then you'll have the added benefit of one of the most awesome crushing lead distortion channels I've ever heard!
I play a mkiv, and while it doesn't have the best cleans, they can get quite good, even at very loud volumes, with some tweaking. If you're interested in a mkiv, try one on the Rhythm 1 channel with the gain knob at 3 and pulled for bright. Most people run the gain too high for cleans and then it can sound somewhat flat and uninspiring. If it turns out that you like the mkiv cleans, then you'll have the added benefit of one of the most awesome crushing lead distortion channels I've ever heard!
madryan
Well-known member
HalfDeaf said:
EL-84's are fine for cleans at bedroom levels. They don't have anything like the kind of headroom they need to not break up at gigging volumes. Some folks like that... I don't.
djw
Well-known member
nemesys said:
Wow. Now that is a beautiful description.
I am, of course, biased because I think my LSC is the best thing since the advent of the Oreo. Still, I don't read much here to contradict this opinion.
The Lone Star gives you all that, plus lots of headroom AND a clean channel that by itself is so versatile that you can get a seemingly infinite variety of colors and shades of clean. Dirty clean, squishy clean, sparkling clean, razor sharp clean... I've never had so much fun playing with a damned clean channel.
123thefirst
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Road King II because it contains the LS cleans and you can choose an open back C90 cabinet while using a different cabinet for gain tones. You'll never get the same sweetness out of a V30 closed cabinet.
Also you can choose 6L6 or EL34 or EL84 power tubes (with Yellowjackets) so you've got the LSC and LSS covered in one box.
Also you can choose 6L6 or EL34 or EL84 power tubes (with Yellowjackets) so you've got the LSC and LSS covered in one box.
MetalMatt
Well-known member
Go for the Lonestars.
CGM
Well-known member
I've had a LSS for a month now and really like the cleans. I'm an old Fender guy myself but it would be hard to beat this amp. I'm actually considering an LSC as a partner, but I'm tired of carrying a lot of gear around, but this things pretty loud as it is. I use the option out for the speaker for that extra 5W and a little extra headroom. I have some outside gigs coming up so we'll see about that. But we're probably going to mike it anyway. CGM
You can always mic the LSS if it's not loud enough for a big gig.
My DC-10 beat my old Mark IV hands down for the Clean. I have it next to a '66 Fender Pro Reverb and a Rivera/Fender Twin Reverb II. It beats the Twin hands down too, but the Pro is much warmer.
It has the original Mesa preamp tubes though, so I will try it with some JJ's this weekend.
My DC-3 sounds incredible too, but has a severe lack of headroom because I Cathode Biased it. With the standard, "Fixed Bias" that it originally had, it was VERY loud and proud.
I thought the Roadster cleans were ok, and the Mark IV (had both amps) cleans were decent.
In order:
DC-10 - Loud & proud, much cheaper than the LSS or LSC & you get a killer lead channel too! Lots of thump, very little sag. Extremely easy to dial in and is very consistent sounding.
Tremoverb - Very clear and warm with decent Reverb.
LSS - Borrowed a friend's LSS for a practice session. Loved the Cleans, hated the Leads. Reverb was fabulous, but there is a delay in Reverb when switching channels, so you have a split second where there is no Reverb, and then it kicks in. Most of the guys here have said that this is not offensive to them, but it bugged the **** out of me.
Rectoverb - Like the T-Verb, but not as much headroom, terrible Reverb, liked it much better with EL-34's.
DC-3 - Chimey and fat, like a Vox. Great little amp for smaller gigs and jams. Great Lead tones too!
Roadster - Great cleans at higher volumes, nice Reverb. Too many bells & whistles. I found that I was always tweaking instead of playing, sort of defeats the purpose.
Mark IV - Had the A & B versions. Very inconsistent amp. Controls are way too sensitive for my tastes, I know a lot of people like that though. Nice cleans at higher volumes.
I still have the DC's and have sold all the rest, including the Nomad 55.
I also have a Heartbreaker head that has incredible cleans on Channel 2, but I really like the distortion of channel 2 more than the distortion on channel 1, so it's a toss up.
My DC-10 beat my old Mark IV hands down for the Clean. I have it next to a '66 Fender Pro Reverb and a Rivera/Fender Twin Reverb II. It beats the Twin hands down too, but the Pro is much warmer.
It has the original Mesa preamp tubes though, so I will try it with some JJ's this weekend.
My DC-3 sounds incredible too, but has a severe lack of headroom because I Cathode Biased it. With the standard, "Fixed Bias" that it originally had, it was VERY loud and proud.
I thought the Roadster cleans were ok, and the Mark IV (had both amps) cleans were decent.
In order:
DC-10 - Loud & proud, much cheaper than the LSS or LSC & you get a killer lead channel too! Lots of thump, very little sag. Extremely easy to dial in and is very consistent sounding.
Tremoverb - Very clear and warm with decent Reverb.
LSS - Borrowed a friend's LSS for a practice session. Loved the Cleans, hated the Leads. Reverb was fabulous, but there is a delay in Reverb when switching channels, so you have a split second where there is no Reverb, and then it kicks in. Most of the guys here have said that this is not offensive to them, but it bugged the **** out of me.
Rectoverb - Like the T-Verb, but not as much headroom, terrible Reverb, liked it much better with EL-34's.
DC-3 - Chimey and fat, like a Vox. Great little amp for smaller gigs and jams. Great Lead tones too!
Roadster - Great cleans at higher volumes, nice Reverb. Too many bells & whistles. I found that I was always tweaking instead of playing, sort of defeats the purpose.
Mark IV - Had the A & B versions. Very inconsistent amp. Controls are way too sensitive for my tastes, I know a lot of people like that though. Nice cleans at higher volumes.
I still have the DC's and have sold all the rest, including the Nomad 55.
I also have a Heartbreaker head that has incredible cleans on Channel 2, but I really like the distortion of channel 2 more than the distortion on channel 1, so it's a toss up.
Great thread because it is so subjective and a matter of taste and can never be answered correctly for everybody's style of playing. I have been trying to decide whether I should sell my Mark IIA for a Lonestar because I have heard just great things about the cleans and I love to buy new gear. I did play an original about a year ago but didn't get to spend enough time to form an educated opinion. Clearly the chimeyness and reverb stood out.
I have however been comparing the clean channels of my IIA and III. I must say that the clean channel on my Mark III simul is really good. I can run it in either 15 watt and lower drive settings on R2 and get this really warm smooth clean. If I go to 85 watts and R1 and more drive I get a really nice chimmey clean as well as a tight bottom end without the icepicks.
The IIA in 100 watt and Volume dimed is pretty nice with lots of headroom and an aggressive in your face clean. Unique, not for everyone but nice.
I'm looking for a clean that sounds like Jerry Garcia mid '70s. I think Fender Silverface. It is howling clean that just swells up like its going to burst and has a bit of growl at the top. Can the Lonestar deliver?
I have however been comparing the clean channels of my IIA and III. I must say that the clean channel on my Mark III simul is really good. I can run it in either 15 watt and lower drive settings on R2 and get this really warm smooth clean. If I go to 85 watts and R1 and more drive I get a really nice chimmey clean as well as a tight bottom end without the icepicks.
The IIA in 100 watt and Volume dimed is pretty nice with lots of headroom and an aggressive in your face clean. Unique, not for everyone but nice.
I'm looking for a clean that sounds like Jerry Garcia mid '70s. I think Fender Silverface. It is howling clean that just swells up like its going to burst and has a bit of growl at the top. Can the Lonestar deliver?
rvschulz
Well-known member
can the lonestar deliver .... absolutely.
IMO, if you want CLEAN cleans, you can get a used 50/100 which will be cleaner that a 5/50/100 ...
for clean, i run ch1 in 100 watt setting.
i get dirtier with ch 2 in 50 watt setting = breakup much faster of course.
IMO, if you want CLEAN cleans, you can get a used 50/100 which will be cleaner that a 5/50/100 ...
for clean, i run ch1 in 100 watt setting.
i get dirtier with ch 2 in 50 watt setting = breakup much faster of course.
jdurso
Well-known member
koolaid said:
use the spongy mode and take the masters of each channel down way low...... then through your output to say 10 oclock and adjust each channel to what your ears can handle.... for channel 1 set it to tweed and set all controls near 12 oclock... adjust according to your taste.... master for channel 1 should be near 8:30-9 oclock and the gain should be in the same territory... dont add too much treble or presence because the tweed setting already has a lot..... and of course go through each channel and adjust appropriately.... now keep in mind i also have an eq in my loop that has a little mid hump but this should get you an awesome clean and because its on spongy mode, channels 3 and 4 can balance a hell of a lot easier than on bold..... i've found this effective for both balancing the amps levels keeping each channel pretty even with one another and it allows me to crank the power amp a little without going deaf...... i like playing on channel 1 with my guitar inbetween the neck and bridge pickups and i roll some of the volume off the neck pickup..... what i end up with is some what of a coil-tapped sound which on channel 1 setup the way i described above produces a cross between an old fender and a JC-120 with the right amount of reverb set ont he amp and chorus in the loop..... BTW i'm running the amp like this until i get an rg-16 midi switcher which in that case i will keep channel 1 set the way it is and set my clean patches to always have the solo engaged (solo will be set at about 10)...... once i do that i can run the rest of the amp the way i usually do with the masters near 11 oclock and the output near 8 oclock..... then i'll also get an attenuator just so i can get the cranked tone for channels 3 and 4.... i hope this long over-drawn email helped
BTW.... after about 1 oclock on channels 1 and 2 (depending on your wattage settings) you'll start to clip the tubes and basically from 1 oclock to you maxing out your masters you wont hear many more dbs unless you turn up the output..... i wouldnt recommend running the masters that high because thats a lot of strain on the preamp.... conversely your power amp even at say 10 oclock isnt even pushing the tubes hard... its gets them just right
I am not an expert but the LSS is the amp with the best cleans of every amp I've tried.
My Mark IIa (60W) has great expansive, textured, detailed cleans when you set the gain in the low range and the master high. If you go to the recommended mesa setting of "7", this is to get enough overdrive on the lead channel, then cleans are fat and punchy. Those are very nice for jazz or blues lead, but not a great clean detailed tone, still a very nice one for certain applications.
I really wish this amps had separated volumes for different channels. That would make this amps (MarkII in general) much more versatile.
My Mark IIa (60W) has great expansive, textured, detailed cleans when you set the gain in the low range and the master high. If you go to the recommended mesa setting of "7", this is to get enough overdrive on the lead channel, then cleans are fat and punchy. Those are very nice for jazz or blues lead, but not a great clean detailed tone, still a very nice one for certain applications.
I really wish this amps had separated volumes for different channels. That would make this amps (MarkII in general) much more versatile.
My clean preference on the Mesa amps I own is as follows:
Mark IIC > Mark III > Mark IV (all amps have an EV)
The IIC's (not a +) clean is the best by far - Fendery, chimey, full sounding, harmonically rich.
I had a Triaxis and really liked it's cleans too, but not more than the IIC's & III's clean. It was simply a little thinner than the Marks clean. IMO, the IV's clean is OK, but nothing special - I like a chimey clean and the IV's is a little dull for my taste. It does get more chimey as you reduce it's gain though.
Mark IIC > Mark III > Mark IV (all amps have an EV)
The IIC's (not a +) clean is the best by far - Fendery, chimey, full sounding, harmonically rich.
I had a Triaxis and really liked it's cleans too, but not more than the IIC's & III's clean. It was simply a little thinner than the Marks clean. IMO, the IV's clean is OK, but nothing special - I like a chimey clean and the IV's is a little dull for my taste. It does get more chimey as you reduce it's gain though.
Not surprised to see the C or C+ on this list. I've never played through one before, but I hear that the C Clean channel is what make this amp so special. However if Mesa has surpassed the C's clean with the Lonestar could the C be considered UH, obsolete? Just Kidding.
CGM
Well-known member
My next move is a 1x12 cab for my LSS. I'm really impressed w/ this amp. I just thought the LSC would be way too loud for my application. We have a big P.A. and mike a lot so power isn't the issue, but too much could be. Then hopefully in six or so months, I'll probably get the LSC for ..you know, ballance. The Fender is doing a real good job now, I set'em about 3-4 ' apart, A/B'em, and get a big sound. I just can't help but think the LSC would add a lot. Call it GAS. The thing is I love clean and a little dirty at the same time. A smoothe clean tone riding under a dirty, overdriven tone. Or, a real or sightly dirty tone just underneath a big clean tone. I use to do it w/a vibroverb and a twin reverb but these Mesa's seem to have it all. What I'm not sure about now is...do I need a head & a cab (LSC) or a combo ? I've had my fill of 2x12"s I'm thinking now about stacking the 12's, instead of side x side. I don't know...I'm watching this site a lot and trying to figure it out. Maybe...before I get the money , I'll figure it out. .....
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