Best greenbacks for Roadking II

[BlackRiverDrive]

I have an RK II and love the sound of it with greenbacks. So far I've just heard the 25w variant (traditional greenbacks I guess?) in a Marshall 1960AX cab. I am thinking about just buying this cab but thought I'd ask the experts about what greenbacks they've tried with their rectos/roadkings and what the best ones have turned out to be. I like the idea of taming the volume by going with a low wattage speaker (4x25w) but perhaps there are some higher wattage GBs that just sound better.

 

[KH Guitar Freak]

Those Heritage 30s aren't too bad either...

 

[94Tremoverb]

For what it's worth, recently I played my Tremoverb through an old Marshall cab with original Greeenbacks, and I've never heard it sound so good.

It isn't the power handling that tames the volume, it's the sensitivity. Greenbacks are 97dB, which is much lower than the 100dB V30/C90/G12H-30 etc - equivalent to halving the amp power. There are higher-powered 97dB speakers, including the G12T-75 (which I don't think sounds good with Mesas) and the G12-65 Heritage (which is great, but expensive), but given that you can use four of them there isn't much reason to go higher than the 25W Greenbacks, they will handle the amp fine and might get some nice cone break-up when you push it hard. I don't have any experience with non-Celestion speakers of this type, apart from Eminences which I don't like.

You can do better than a modern Marshall cab though - they just don't sound all that good (at least not to me). If you do want to go with that, you can improve it by removing the switching PCB and the push-connector wiring, and rewiring it with two parallel standard jacks and the cab hardwired for 16 ohms with all soldered connections - this makes a surprising difference to the sound as well as the reliability. (Keep the original PCB and wiring in case yo want to sell the cab later.)

 

[BlackRiverDrive]

Thanks for that, man. If I just had a 2x12 cab, would I be best to go with a pair of G12-65 Heritages, and would they handle the killing power of my RK?

 

[fluff191]

Might be a dumb question, but do the Greenbacks have flub problems or anything of that nature like the G12T-75?

Not too sure I like the Vintage 30's from the Recto cab and thinking about trying the Greenbacks or the EVH Celestions. Which are 20 watts. Weird.

 

[94Tremoverb]

I wouldn't say flubby, but they do definitely compress when they're pushed. Not at all like 75s though, they sound very different - more overtones and crunch. Not sure you'd want that for metal, though - it's more of a classic-rock type sound.

I think the EVH ones will be the same as the Heritage G12M-20s they put in the Marshall Handwired cabs - I really don't know if the power rating is genuinely less than the G12M-25, or whether it's for historical accuracy - originally in the mid 60s, the G12M was a 20W speaker and the G12H was 25, they were increased to 25 and 30W after a few years. (That's why speakers labeled G12H-25s are not a mistake!) I still wouldn't worry about running a 100W Rectifier through four of them in any setting except Bold/Diode though, since the true power is below 80W otherwise.

 

[KH Guitar Freak]

Might be a dumb question, but do the Greenbacks have flub problems or anything of that nature like the G12T-75?

Not too sure I like the Vintage 30's from the Recto cab and thinking about trying the Greenbacks or the EVH Celestions. Which are 20 watts. Weird.

Anything but the G12T-75s I say. I've tried a Marshall cab with Greenbacks with my Roadster. Sounded good, but did compress very early, which I personally don't always necessarily like. The Heritage 30 speakers are better IMO. And if you need the headroom to be similar to the V30s, the G12-65s are better...

 

[LerxstLee]

Going back before I switched heads, I was using a Roadking V1 and:
I put a quad of the Celestion G12H-30s, not the one with the black sticker but the (H) for heavy-large magnet greenback
version. The cone has a 55hz res. over the 75hz res. of the others. These speakers are really efficient. I am very
happy with them, I also have a cab with a quad of the Gold 50watt alnico and although more expensive after some
breaking in they take the cake. They are very efficient around 100db/1w1m I think. I think alot of us fight with volume
issues, but it is still the art of sound we are after, with the above celestion speakers covered those were my favorite,
I would switch cabs as the two kinds of celestions had a the sound I loved yet both were slightly different and I liked using certian ones for certian music. The 30GBs have a deeper more smooth sound. They were the ones that marshall used
in their 60-early 70s bass cabinets, alot of artists embraced the 55hz cone and used those instead of the 25wattgb with the 75hz cone. If you see a marshall 1960GHW or AHW cabinet those are the 30 watt H speakers.
Best of luck.

 

[thehornedone]

For what it's worth, recently I played my Tremoverb through an old Marshall cab with original Greeenbacks, and I've never heard it sound so good.

It isn't the power handling that tames the volume, it's the sensitivity. Greenbacks are 97dB, which is much lower than the 100dB V30/C90/G12H-30 etc - equivalent to halving the amp power. There are higher-powered 97dB speakers, including the G12T-75 (which I don't think sounds good with Mesas) and the G12-65 Heritage (which is great, but expensive), but given that you can use four of them there isn't much reason to go higher than the 25W Greenbacks, they will handle the amp fine and might get some nice cone break-up when you push it hard. I don't have any experience with non-Celestion speakers of this type, apart from Eminences which I don't like.

You can do better than a modern Marshall cab though - they just don't sound all that good (at least not to me). If you do want to go with that, you can improve it by removing the switching PCB and the push-connector wiring, and rewiring it with two parallel standard jacks and the cab hardwired for 16 ohms with all soldered connections - this makes a surprising difference to the sound as well as the reliability. (Keep the original PCB and wiring in case yo want to sell the cab later.)

Greenbacks are actually 98dB if we're referring to the G12M, which is most commonly referred to as the Greenback. But, you're right, 97/98dB is a SIGNIFICANT difference from 100dB. Not to get too far off topic, but if you have a 4x12 with, say, 2 G12Ms and 2 G12H-30s (100dB), would the G12H speakers be louder than the G12Ms? Since the efficiency is greater, and electrically each speaker will soak up the same amount of current if they are all 8 ohm or all 16 ohm speakers, you'd think the G12Hs would be noticeably louder in the cabinet.

 

[94Tremoverb]

Celestion have variously described the G12M-25 as 97, 98 or even sometimes 96dB over the years - it depends on how you measure it. I tend to think of 97dB as the 'right' figure for whatever reason... (They've also sometimes listed the H speakers at 99dB.)

By the way, some other manufacturer's dB figures don't precisely measure up, either - if you look at the specs, some (like Eminence) look like they would be a lot louder than equivalent Celestions (which they aren't in practice) and some some (like EV) seem very conservative for what are really very loud speakers.

Mixing 97dB and 100dB speakers in the same cab - especially a 4x12" - doesn't sound as unbalanced as you would think. It can sometimes in a side-by-side 2x12", but still not always - it depends on the precise speakers, the cab and how the speakers react to it as well. A friend of mine has an old Marshall shallow 1936 with a G12M-25 and a G12H-30, and it's hard to really hear much volume difference between them despite the at least 2dB difference. I think part of it is that the quieter speaker also has a more complex and midrangy tone, so your ear tends to pick up on that more than the deeper and clearer tone of the louder one. But if you put a G12M-25 and a V30 in the same open-back 2x12" - which seems to be a popular combination - you can hear a really big volume difference... I don't like it for this reason.

If you're loading a 4x12", I would either use an x-pattern or put the louder and/or bassier speakers at the bottom, that way the cab seems to sound more balanced. But really I would just go on whether it sounds good and not worry about the figures .

 

[LerxstLee]

Here are the spec's for the speakers.
The last list of spec's is for the 70th anniversery G12H these have the black sticker with a 75hz cone and are made
in China, if that is good or bad that is up to you, do not confuse those with the U.K made Herritage G12H as these
are made with the 55hz cone, have the plastic GB cover and were "reissued" for the ones who still desired the G12h30GBs,
but would not settle for the 70th anniversery edition, it is interesting to note that they started this line when the G12h
black sticker back was outsourced. Here are the spec's H12m,H12h,g12m(m.i.china)G12H anniversery.
With that said, nothing compares to being able to listen to these in the same cabs with the same settings, which is
a difficult "experiment" to say the least. If your a spec's person these may help you narrow your descision.
/cheers

herritage g12M
General specifications
Nominal diameter 12", 305mm
Power Rating 20W
Nominal impedance 8? and 15?
Sensitivity 96dB
Chassis type Pressed steel
Voice coil diameter 1.75", 44.5mm
Voice coil material Round copper
Magnet type Ceramic
Magnet weight 35oz, 0.99kg
Frequency range 75-5000Hz
Resonance frequency, Fs 75Hz
DC resistance, Re 6.57? & 12.3?
Mounting Information
Diameter 12.2", 309mm
Overall depth 5.1", 130mm
Magnet structure diameter 5.9", 150mm
Cut-out diameter 11.1", 283mm
Mounting slot dimensions 0.31", 7.9mm Ø
Number of mounting slots 4
Mounting slot PCD 11.7", 297mm
Unit weight
-----------------------------------------------------
Herritage G12H
General specifications
Nominal diameter 12", 305mm
Power Rating 30W
Nominal impedance 8? and 15?
Sensitivity 100dB
Chassis type Pressed steel
Voice coil diameter 1.75", 44.5mm
Voice coil material Rounded copper
Magnet type Ceramic
Magnet weight 50oz, 1.42kg
Frequency range 55-5000Hz
Resonance frequency, Fs 55Hz
DC resistance, Re 6.53? & 12.11?
Mounting Information
Diameter 12.2", 309mm
Overall depth 5.3", 135mm
Magnet structure diameter 6.6", 168mm
Cut-out diameter 11.1", 283mm
Mounting slot dimensions 0.31", 7.9mm Ø
Number of mounting slots 4
Mounting slot PCD 11.7", 297mm
Unit weight 10.4lb, 4.7kg
-------------------------------------------------------------

G12M "greenback"
General specifications
Nominal diameter 12", 305mm
Power Rating 25W
Nominal impedance 8? and 16?
Sensitivity 98dB
Chassis type Pressed steel
Voice coil diameter 1.75", 44.5mm
Voice coil material Round copper
Magnet type Ceramic
Magnet weight 35oz, 0.99kg
Frequency range 75-5000Hz
Resonance frequency, Fs 75Hz
DC resistance, Re 6.7? & 13.1?
Mounting Information
Diameter 12.2", 309mm
Overall depth 5.1", 130mm
Magnet structure diameter 5.9", 150mm
Cut-out diameter 11.1", 283mm
Mounting slot dimensions 0.31", 7.9mm Ø
Number of mounting slots 4
Mounting slot PCD 11.7", 297mm
Unit weight 7.9lb, 3.6kg
----------------------------------------------------------
G12H anniversery
General specifications
Nominal diameter 12", 305mm
Power Rating 30W
Nominal impedance 8? and 16?
Sensitivity 100dB
Chassis type Pressed steel
Voice coil diameter 1.75", 44.5mm
Voice coil material Rounded copper
Magnet type Ceramic
Magnet weight 50oz, 1.42kg
Frequency range 75-5000Hz
Resonance frequency, Fs 85Hz
DC resistance, Re 6.7? & 13.1?
Mounting Information
Diameter 12.2", 309mm
Overall depth 5.3", 135mm
Magnet structure diameter 6.1", 156mm
Cut-out diameter 11.1", 283mm
Mounting slot dimensions 0.31", 7.9mm Ø
Number of mounting slots 4
Mounting slot PCD 11.7", 297mm
Unit weight 10.4lb, 4.7kg

 

[Anonymous]

I have an RK II and love the sound of it with greenbacks. So far I've just heard the 25w variant (traditional greenbacks I guess?) in a Marshall 1960AX cab. I am thinking about just buying this cab but thought I'd ask the experts about what greenbacks they've tried with their rectos/roadkings and what the best ones have turned out to be. I like the idea of taming the volume by going with a low wattage speaker (4x25w) but perhaps there are some higher wattage GBs that just sound better.

The 25w G12M is my weapon of choice for anything and everything. It's got one of the most aggressive midrange tones I've ever heard, and I think as long as you're not overpowering them, they sound unbelievable for anything, even the heaviest metal. Their complex midrange and rich high end allow for an experience V30s just can't compete with.

I've also heard the G12H-30 and while it does sound good, it's got a little too much high treble for me to love it. It still has a great midrange, and in no way is it ear piercing like G12T-75s can be, but it's just not as nice as the G12Ms.

Might be a dumb question, but do the Greenbacks have flub problems or anything of that nature like the G12T-75?

Not too sure I like the Vintage 30's from the Recto cab and thinking about trying the Greenbacks or the EVH Celestions. Which are 20 watts. Weird.

The EVH Celestions - from what I understand - are actually Heritage Greenbacks rated at 20w. For your Duals, I'd go for the 25w G12Ms to get a 100w cab. Greenbacks are a lot closer to V30s than G12T-75s, though they're very different from both. When I had my Rectifiers, the only thing I needed to do specifically with these speakers was to watch how much bass I put into them. If used properly, they won't flub out even when pushed a bit, but if you crank the bass knob, they'll either distort or blow.

An alternative to Celestions is the company Scumback. They have a model called the M75, which is supposed to replicate the sweetest sounding G12Ms ever made. Not only that, but the M75 is available in a 25w, 65w, or 100w rating. You pay for them, but I've heard over and over that they're excellent speakers.

 

[Silverwulf]

I tried my Revision C with my '76 Marshall 4X12 with G12M Blackbacks and thought it sounded awesome. No flub, just a nice crunch.