Badlander mods?

[soloistthree]

Just curious, went from a Badlander 50 to a 100, thinking there could be a bump in low-end, found out that really wasn't the case, in fact I think the 50 sounded maybe a little better, though that's kind of splitting hairs. Anyway, I listed the Badlander 100 for sale on Reverb, but in the meantime, in consideration of perhaps having to keep it, I've been thinking about any kind of mods that could be done, as I do like the overall character of the tone, it just doesn't have a lot of gain and the bass is really lacking compared to all of my other amps (Mark III, JP2C, Mark VII, and ENGL Artist Edition 100). I kind of get the idea of the Badlander, being a very sculpted tone that can drop right into a band or mix and maybe require no tweaking at all, but having so little low end is really uninspiring. All that said, it's not off by much in terms of gain and bass, I mean, figuratively, if those numbers both went to 12, I'd probably be ok

Anyway, I've been looking into the "Legendary Tones Hot Mod V2 EVO" which really seems like it could be ticket, but I was curious if anyone has used it with the Badlander, or, if anyone knows of any mods being done to the Badlander that can bring in some more gain and low end. I suppose the cheaper way to go would be to just get a boost/EQ pedal, but then none of my other amps need any of that "baggage" to put a smile on my face. I suppose this really has me leaning towards just accepting the loss of money on the deal and just moving on from it, but I am curious to know of any one that has perhaps been through a similar experience, and tried to mod their BL with successful results.

 

[bandit2013]

There is one way to get some aggressive tones with the BAD, STR448 tubes in the gray bias color. So far those have to be the best 6L6GC tubes I have used in the Badlander. I have not tried the STR445 tubes yet. Those power tubes converted my Roadster into a paint stripping beast. I may give those a try today and see what happens.

The STR446 EL34 tubes are just a TAD bit better than the stock STR447 EL34. That was a pun since the 446 is the TAD red Base EL34. Not exactly sure how the JJ EL34L, let alone the KT77 would sound. I have not experimented with non-Mesa branded power tubes in the BAD yet. The Gold Lion KT77 was a huge improvement for the low end of the TC50, but I only have two usable tubes that are near end of life to start with since I burned them up in the Mark V90.

If it is just a split hair difference from the 100W to the 50W, that is good to know. If the gain is lacking, you may have a weak preamp tube in the amp. Just note that V2 is where the cathode follower tone stack driver resides. The two gain modes in a graphic representation from the tube task chart are below. I did probe around the PCB to confirm if this amp has the cathode follower, yep. If you can find a dark sounding tube for V3 like an RFT 12AX7 tube that may improve the low end. This amp uses a softer cold clipper circuit than the MWDR or Roadster since the cathode resistor is 15k vs the 39K. A Marshall circuit would have a 10K resistor just for reference.

I get what you mean though. It does not have the low end of the MWDR or Roadster or any amp with the GEQ on it. I would say it is more old school/new school type of amp. Not sure if there is a way to improve the low end without some aid or help in the FX loop, like a GEQ unit. I felt the bottom end was plenty as it does not drown itself with sub harmonic content. The Bad works great with the 7-string which is what I could not use with the MWDR or Roadster (found a means to do so with that amp using the Mesa 1990 Beijing tubes, that trick did not work for the MWDR though).

Many want more gain than the amp can deliver. You may not get out of it what you want. The MWDR or Roadster does not have gobs of gain either. There is always the Mr. Scary Mod which is just a dual preamp tube adapter for the V2 position. (it replaces the DC coupled cathode follower tone stack driver commonly used in Marshall, Soldano and Mesa DR). Never tried that sort of thing but you can find some videos on that subject. I thought. I thought Kyle Bull did one but I cannot find it now.

I was looking for the video with the Mr. Scary mod with the Badlander and found this instead. It may be of help.

 

[domct203]

Just curious, went from a Badlander 50 to a 100, thinking there could be a bump in low-end, found out that really wasn't the case, in fact I think the 50 sounded maybe a little better, though that's kind of splitting hairs. Anyway, I listed the Badlander 100 for sale on Reverb, but in the meantime, in consideration of perhaps having to keep it, I've been thinking about any kind of mods that could be done, as I do like the overall character of the tone, it just doesn't have a lot of gain and the bass is really lacking compared to all of my other amps (Mark III, JP2C, Mark VII, and ENGL Artist Edition 100). I kind of get the idea of the Badlander, being a very sculpted tone that can drop right into a band or mix and maybe require no tweaking at all, but having so little low end is really uninspiring. All that said, it's not off by much in terms of gain and bass, I mean, figuratively, if those numbers both went to 12, I'd probably be ok

Anyway, I've been looking into the "Legendary Tones Hot Mod V2 EVO" which really seems like it could be ticket, but I was curious if anyone has used it with the Badlander, or, if anyone knows of any mods being done to the Badlander that can bring in some more gain and low end. I suppose the cheaper way to go would be to just get a boost/EQ pedal, but then none of my other amps need any of that "baggage" to put a smile on my face. I suppose this really has me leaning towards just accepting the loss of money on the deal and just moving on from it, but I am curious to know of any one that has perhaps been through a similar experience, and tried to mod their BL with successful results.

Stick a good quality graphic EQ in the loop.

The MXR 10-band is a great option.

 

[soloistthree]

Stick a good quality graphic EQ in the loop.

The MXR 10-band is a great option.

Might be the way to go, I suppose if someone buys it I'll still have another useful tool in the toolbox with a good EQ. Disappointed that there doesn't seem to be any mods anyone is doing for these amps though, it's very close to being perfect, just need the gain and bass to go to 11

 

[bandit2013]

I have not tried the STR445 (JJ 6L6GC tubes yet). I can say this, they made the Roadster sound like it was on fire, holy crapola, I never thought the Roadster was capable of that sound. I got two quads from American Musical Supply. The Roadster is more of a coasting amp but the STR445 yellows were hot potatoes for sure. Not in a bad way though. I have to try those in the Badlander as my curiosity is growing. The STR448 grays were also really good. The only other tubes I had in 6L6GC were the STR440 and they sound on the weak side in the BAD or even the TC100.

Sometimes it is just the power and preamp tubes that will make a difference. My JP2C went lame when I tried out the STR443 in the same bias color I originally had in the STR440. I sort of lost interest in it for a while. Power tubes do make a difference as does the bias color which is amp dependent. MWDR works well with the grays but in the STR448 it was just too much. I have not adopted the STR445 in the MWDR yet. Never had much reason to explore the potential of the BAD as I found it fits my needs right out of the box. Grid slammer does work great on the clean channel and Crunch, Flux drive sounds even better on the Crush. I had to experiment with those. Even the Strymon Deco with its doubling effect and the tape saturation effect made the Badlander sound huge. I run mine in stereo as I have two of them.

 

[bandit2013]

Just for S&G I tried the Mesa STR445 (JJ 6L6GC) yellow bias color. They are the tubes that are stock in the Mark VII and what Mesa moved to with the MWDR. Meh, subdued tone, more midrange than I prefer. It has a bit more bass but sort of muffled. The Mesa STR448 (TAD red-base 6L6GC) in the gray bias color. Those were epic for a 6L6GC in the Badlander. More aggressive tone. I was going to change over to them but the second pair I got were red bias colors where were more lame than anything. When I got the second Badlander 100, it came with the STR447 in blue bias color range. The first one had green bias colors. So, I swapped a pair and run the green and blues in each amp for more of a balance. Just for additional fun, I also tried the EH 6CA7 tubes I had used in the TC100 for a while. I did not like them much. They sounded more like the STR445 tubes but not as blanketed or fizzy. As for the alternate offering from Mesa, the STR446 (TAD red base EL34) they had a bit more detail than the mixed quad of STR447 (EH EL34 skinny bottles). Since I was at it, I also tried the Tung Sol EL34B, now those are hot potatoes. More bottom end and they rip. I am waiting for them to cool down so I can get the STR447 back in. I could have compared the TS EL34B to the mixed STR447 since the other BAD has those installed. I failed to do so. The TS EL34B were almost as aggressive as the STR448 grays. I would see about getting a quad of the STR448 in gray or green bias colors. I was not disappointed with them at all for the 6L6GC family. I did try the grays in the Mark VII, a bit much early gain for that. Greens would be a better fit. Actually, I am running a pair of those with the STR445 using the 448 in the outer positions and the 445 in the inner positions. Both pairs of tubes have the yellow bias color on their labels. After I got the blues/greens back in, I got stuck for playing a bit longer than anticipated. For some reason that blend of STR447 works. I have the blues in the center and the greens in the outer position with both amps. It does not matter with the Class A/B though. I should probably change their position since the 50W/25W use the outer pair and disconnect the inner pair. I will have to double check the other amp and confirm if that is how I arranged the tubes. I prefer the STR447 but the STR446 had some great qualities but only have one full set of those. Comparing the Mark VII crunch and VII modes to the BAD crunch and crush modes, the Badlander is far more aggressive than the Mark VII. Also, since I run the two BADS in stereo, I also run the Mark VII as a center channel and will eventually add in the JP2C as I now have a second Mesa Switch-track. I have run all 4 amps at the same time but the JP2C will be out of phase with the crunch modes. Clean and crush is no issue there, same with the Mark VII, crunch and IIB will match phase to the crunch on the BADs but will be out of phase with the JP2C. Now that I can turn off the JP2C when running crunch that works for me. Just have not set it up yet. I got stuck with some other experiments.

I get that, what you want is probably different than the Badlander. I would not call it a Metal amp exactly. I do not think of the others as that either except for the Roadster or the MWDR. Roadster is much darker than the MWDR but I found a fix to get the sub harmonic woes out of the Roadster so I can push it with a 7-string without getting muddy. That was the old Mesa 12AX7 tubes I had on hand from the Mark III days. Those Beijing 6N4-J Chinse Military square foil getter tubes really tighten up the Roadster. I was the guitar player in a band I formed back in the 1990s. I went through power tubes more than I thought I would, so I changed everything at the same time. I kept the preamp tubes since they had plenty of life left in them. Out of the Box, the MWDR is probably more adapt for heavy metal as it is much brighter. I feel it is much better with the STR440 tubes though.

If you sell the Badlander, at least you tried it. That happens. If you have the JP2C, I would highly recommend hooking up with Mesa through email to customer service and inquire if they have any of the STR415 tubes left. You cannot buy them through regular channels but it can be done working with customer service by email. Calling by phone will get you Gibson customer service and they will tell you they do not exist or not available as they are stocked but not on their system as an item. More of a special work order type of deal. At first they sounded a bit off but after a few hours of use they are the bomb. The STR448 in grays come in close but a little different character.

 

[soloistthree]

Lots of good info there, thanks. Yeah, as far as my own experience, I LOVE the Mark VII, also love my Mark III, and the JP2C. Though the JP2C requires running the presence way up, so it's a darker amp than the other 2 Marks I have, but the Mark VII, and Mark III, are just so crushing, power chords sound like explosions, which I love. I am more of a lead player though, so having more gain with the Marks is definitely preferred over the Badlander. Though more than that, the low end on the Badlander is a bit of a let down, it's such a tease too as it's just SO close to being in the sweet spot but just falls short compared to my other amps.

I'm kind of going through my own little amp "mid-life" crisis right now, lol. So many amps I could never have afforded all throughout my teens, 20s, and even part of my 30s, so I'm chalking this one up to a slight misadventure in the "tone quest". Tbh, I feel like I'm pretty much done with that quest with the Mark VII/JP2C as-is, but variety is the spice of life, so I'm just kind of trying things out. I packed the Badlander back up, slid it into the corner. I'll come back to it in a bit, if it doesn't sell here; perhaps Ground Zero, or another company does mods for these things. The Badlander is just SO close to being a great amp, but again, for me, the lack of gain and bass has me always reaching for controls I don't have, and I just don't want to get into EQ's and pedals when my Marks are Guitar > cable > amp and I'm good to go

 

[bandit2013]

I just use a single pedal in the FX loop, reverb That is it. I do have a few pedals up front but just the Mesa Switch track. Not sure if a preamp tube change would work, that I have not yet explored with the BAD. It would be either V1 or V3 or both with an RFT 12AX7 as that tube can bring in the grind quite well. I use them in the RA100. Sort of wonder what a 12AT7 would do in the phase inverter. Not going to experiment though. I like the BADs as they are. Still, the only amp that beats the JP2C with the STR415 in terms of depth of sound is the MWDR. There is just more tone density with the JP2C though. It is very addictive. It gets even better with the Mesa 4x10 cab. If you need that volume though, Standard 412 loaded with EVM12L speakers will get you beyond sanity. The stock standard 412 with the V30 is really good too but my studio is rather small. The Badlander (only one) gets a lot of use on jam nights. I play drums so I can hear that and the bass (Mesa TT800 full power ).

I was walking in the room while the guitar player and bass player were going at a song of sorts. I play drums since they do not. All three of us are guitar players. I am not in the picture. The Badlander in the shadows behind the person in the red shirt was the amp he was playing through.

When I am by myself, I go nuts with the guitar or bass. Depends on what I feel like using.

Yeah, I run all 4 amps at the same time. I finally got another Mesa switch track to get what I want with the full rig. At the moment the wall of sound is in a state of flux. It is all my gear too.

 

[JustPassingThrough]

Have you got a schematic? There'll be gain and bass to squeeze out, it's just a matter of finding out where they're attenuating it.

 

[soloistthree]

Have you got a schematic? There'll be gain and bass to squeeze out, it's just a matter of finding out where they're attenuating it.

THIS I'm interested in, a 20% ish bump in bass and gain and this thing is an absolute keeper

 

[JustPassingThrough]

THIS I'm interested in, a 20% ish bump in bass and gain and this thing is an absolute keeper

Can't do much without a schematic.

 

[domct203]

Have you tried an EQ in the loop yet? Rogue mods to the amp can devalue it, EQ pedals can always be returned or used elsewhere. Working without a schematic can cause more problems than it fixes.

An EQ changed my TC-100 from a practice/closet amp into my A-Rig…

Dom

 

[bandit2013]

I see no need to modify the Badlander, hard mods that is.
I have not tried rolling in some preamp tubes as both of mine are in stock trim, Mesa 12AX7 tubes.

One trick would be to use an RFT 12AX7 as this tube has similar characteristics to the Mesa branded JJ ECC83s under some normal gain settings, however when the heat is turned up (more gain) it takes on a different aggressive characteristic and will also add in some darker tones.

Since this is a new amp, no schematics out there. I did poke around the amp though to find if the typical Rectifier dc coupled tone stack driver was in the amp, yep, V2 has the pin 2 and pin 6 connected together (meaning triode V2A plate is connected to triode V2B control grid, typical arrangement for a dc coupled cathode follower.) That would leave V3 to have a cold clipper circuit. Yep, that too. Cathode resistor is 15k and not 39K like the Dual Rectifier design so that reduces the sub harmonic content. I would assume that V3 with the RFT tube or even a long plate 12AX7 may do the trick. Have not tried it yet though. I only have one RFT on hand. As for the phase inverter, a long plate 12AX7 may be helpful there as well. However, the first release of the manual listed the phase inverter as a 12AT7 tube. I doubt I will try that but it may have potential. RFT 12AT7 will have more low end than the JAN/Phillips 12AT7. I will opt for a 12AX7 in the phase inverter. So that just leaves V1 and V4. FX tube V4 will also have a cathode follower circuit. Chinese or JJ ECC83S for that. V1, what ever you desire. There could be potential to squeeze out some more oomph from the Badlander. To top it off, the STR448 in grey bias color will add in some bottom end and will have a similar tube saturation as the STR447 EL34. Then there is the STR445 which I have not tried yet. The STR446 (TAD red base EL34) was a little better than the stock STR447.

Those that want more, I assume the legendarytones Mr. Scary Mod or the V2 EVO may work when installed into V2 socket. I assume it uses the DC coupled cathode follower circuit to power up two 12AX7 tubes for additional gain stages. It will not work on other locations and needs to be used in the tone stack driver circuit. Have no experience with this unit. At least it does not require any hard mods to the amp, it just installs into the preamp tube socket. You would need one specifically for a Dual Rectifier amp. I can only find demos used with a Marshall. I do recall seeing this for the Mesa Dual Rectifier but cannot find it. Not sure if it is a wise choice.

https://legendarytones.com/

 

[JustPassingThrough]

Well that's a start. Making the 15k cold clipper something like 12k or 10k would be an easy 100% reversible mod and increase the gain output.

Clipping a 75k resistor in parallel with that 15k would give 12.5k, a 33k in parallel would give 10.3k. since this could just be soldered to the legs of the existing resistor in the circuit it'd be easy to both install and remove.

I'd look at the coupling cap value for added bass response. It's being shelved somewhere, it's just a matter of finding where.

Again, a capacitor could be added in parallel meaning it is 100% reversible and hopefully able to be added from the top side.

If there's then too much hiss or fizz due to increased gain increasing the value of the fizz cap between the PI plates would be a trivial task.

Hypothetically of course.

 

[rarebitusa]

I see no need to modify the Badlander, hard mods that is.
I have not tried rolling in some preamp tubes as both of mine are in stock trim, Mesa 12AX7 tubes.

One trick would be to use an RFT 12AX7 as this tube has similar characteristics to the Mesa branded JJ ECC83s under some normal gain settings, however when the heat is turned up (more gain) it takes on a different aggressive characteristic and will also add in some darker tones.

Since this is a new amp, no schematics out there. I did poke around the amp though to find if the typical Rectifier dc coupled tone stack driver was in the amp, yep, V2 has the pin 2 and pin 6 connected together (meaning triode V2A plate is connected to triode V2B control grid, typical arrangement for a dc coupled cathode follower.) That would leave V3 to have a cold clipper circuit. Yep, that too. Cathode resistor is 15k and not 39K like the Dual Rectifier design so that reduces the sub harmonic content. I would assume that V3 with the RFT tube or even a long plate 12AX7 may do the trick. Have not tried it yet though. I only have one RFT on hand. As for the phase inverter, a long plate 12AX7 may be helpful there as well. However, the first release of the manual listed the phase inverter as a 12AT7 tube. I doubt I will try that but it may have potential. RFT 12AT7 will have more low end than the JAN/Phillips 12AT7. I will opt for a 12AX7 in the phase inverter. So that just leaves V1 and V4. FX tube V4 will also have a cathode follower circuit. Chinese or JJ ECC83S for that. V1, what ever you desire. There could be potential to squeeze out some more oomph from the Badlander. To top it off, the STR448 in grey bias color will add in some bottom end and will have a similar tube saturation as the STR447 EL34. Then there is the STR445 which I have not tried yet. The STR446 (TAD red base EL34) was a little better than the stock STR447.

Those that want more, I assume the legendarytones Mr. Scary Mod or the V2 EVO may work when installed into V2 socket. I assume it uses the DC coupled cathode follower circuit to power up two 12AX7 tubes for additional gain stages. It will not work on other locations and needs to be used in the tone stack driver circuit. Have no experience with this unit. At least it does not require any hard mods to the amp, it just installs into the preamp tube socket. You would need one specifically for a Dual Rectifier amp. I can only find demos used with a Marshall. I do recall seeing this for the Mesa Dual Rectifier but cannot find it. Not sure if it is a wise choice.

https://legendarytones.com/

FWIW...

 

[rarebitusa]

Have you tried an EQ in the loop yet? Rogue mods to the amp can devalue it, EQ pedals can always be returned or used elsewhere. Working without a schematic can cause more problems than it fixes.

An EQ changed my TC-100 from a practice/closet amp into my A-Rig…

Dom

+1 for the GEQ in the loop... it is a difference maker. Often there's only slight changes required in a GEQ setting that opens up the amp and get's it out of the practice closet

 

[bandit2013]

Perhaps playing with the cold clipper resistor may be of value but doubt it is needed. I tried to modify the Roadster with this trick and took the life out of it. Would need to adjust the plate resistor I would assume to retain the load line. That is not something I was willing to do. Found a better way to improve the Roadster with preamp tubes. With that out of the woods, I would leave the 15k as is. A preamp tube choice may have better results. Now I have to open it up and explore alternatives. I like the BAD just as it is. I see no need for boosting it. I get the point, it does not have that saturated lead characteristic. The guitar player who comes over at least once a month runs the BAD in crush, dime's the gain and adjusts the channel master to set volume. Sometimes it sounds good and sometimes he dials it in to sound blah, it could be that broken phasor pedal he keeps bringing over.

As for the GEQ, tried it, did not do much for the amp. I sort of expected that as I had the same effect with the Roadster and MWDR unless I did an inverted V shape. Bad is not as scooped as the other two mentioned as it does have working tone controls compared to the MWDR and Roadster which almost seem ineffective. What does bring out more character is a reverb effect in the loop that has some delay to it.

As for the Mr Scary or EVO, that may be something worth trying out assuming it will fit in the amp. Sort of wonder if the same would work for the MWDR or Roadster. I would assume the topology of the circuit is the same. Still looking for videos or demos of that device in a Mesa amp. With my luck it will be undesirable like most of the boost pedals I tried in the past, at least I was able to return them.

Then again, as for my rig, not sure it necessary to pursue mods since I can switch between amps with a push of a button (Mesa Switch track). Also, nothing better than running two Bads in stereo with the reverb/delay effect. Add in a Mark VII and JP2C on top of that.

As the case for the Dual Rectifiers in general, I found them to work against you for lead style playing. The Bad does not as I can get some good feedback and pinch off harmonics with ease, it is a struggle to some extent. Perhaps I am just lame in my desires. If I am eager to do so, I may explore preamp tubes in the Bad to see what the side effects are. It is one amp I have not done so yet. Wonder how the unobtanium tubes will sound. (old 1990 Mesa Chinese square foil getter tubes). Then Tung Sol, RFT, Mullard, EH, etc. Sort of interested to see if there is any merits to tube rolling now that it has been brought up.

 

[JustPassingThrough]

I modded the 39k cold clipper on my Stiletto down to a 27k for a smidge more gain and it totally woke up the amp, and also change the 2n2 coupling cap to a 6n8. It's an easy win for more gain and body and a little change goes a very long way for the sake of 1 resistor and/or cap soldered in parallel with another. It could even be croc clipped in to road test.

I'm just trying to offer easy and cheap alternatives instead of spend hundreds on tubes or having the lug an eq pedal and necessary PSU and cables around. There's bound to be scope in the circuit to shape it differently.

 

[bandit2013]

I would not doubt there can be more to be found with the Badlander doing circuit mods. Problem is, no schematics available for the general public to review. Mods to the V1A/B and V3A circuits may be interesting. Change in plate resistor and or cathode resistor could improve the gain factor. Not much to do with the 15K cold clipper, Could drop it down to 10K I assume. Poking around the circuit did not reveal if there were any other changes to the circuit based on the voicing modes. Schematics would be helpful to see what is being done to each circuit with relays and such.

 

[bandit2013]

Aside from the lack of schematics, One could locate the 15k resistor and change it to a 39k if you want that sub harmonic sound. Not sure if you would need to address the plate resistor. Not sure how the tone stack is designed, it does have a different character to it compared to the Roadster or MWDR. Not sure if it is related to the cold clipper circuit since that is the last gain stage in front of the tone stack driver. I sort of doubt much can be found with alternate preamp tubes, still may be worth exploring since the one size fits all Mesa 12AX7 approach is not always ideal.

So far, I prefer the mixed blend of STR447 green and blue bias colors. The next best thing I tried are the STR446 TAD red-base EL34 tubes. opt for 6L6 tubes and go for the STR448 in grey bias color, now that had some meat and was aggressive sounding. The other 6L6 tubes sounded weak STR440, STR441, STR443. Have not tried the STR445 yet. Waiting for things to warm up in the studio, my hands do not like cold weather.

Sure, I have a few front-end toys but never make use of them. Grid slammer and Flux drive. That is it. Then there is the Strymon Deco more of a doubler than driver but does have a distortion effect too. That just makes the amp sound bigger than it is.

I would assume no FX stuff? If that is the case, then I can agree why carry a PS and pedal if it is not needed. If it is just guitar, cable, amp + cabinet. That would be a bit dry for me since the Bad lacks any sort of reverb or enhancements, I can run it dry just like the MWDR and it sounds good but, reverb or delay for me in the FX loop for that additional push. I get it, nothing but the amp. The Bad does not have the same amount of compression a Mark amp will provide. Some complain it is too compressed.