As a Mark III owner, what can I expect from the V ?

[laurens]

I own a blue stripe Mark III combo (hooked it up to a cab) and while it is a beast of an amp with thump and grind, the Mark V is gaining my interest. Having heard the tone setting vids from JP, i'm really considering the V now. I'm still stuck in 80's metal (think old style metallica), so can anyone comment on the V in comparison to the III for that soundwise? Is it for example Tighter/looser/ballsier or different in gain structure?

 

[eudaimonia02912]

The difference between the V and III is much like the difference between the IV and III. I think of the typical III (excluding the coli, and yes, I know there are different stripes...) as more aggressive and biting than the IV or V, which are in turn fatter and smoother.

 

[>Photi G<]

You will appreciate the 3 independent EQs per channel, a single footswitch, the Pentode/Triode switch while in Simul-Class mode (To a Mark III user that's a Green stripe/Blue stripe switch, respectively), and the welcome addition of a tube rectifier. If I had the money, I wouldn't have my Blue right now. :mrgreen:

 

[laurens]

You will appreciate the 3 independent EQs per channel, a single footswitch, the Pentode/Triode switch while in Simul-Class mode (To a Mark III user that's a Green stripe/Blue stripe switch, respectively), and the welcome addition of a tube rectifier. If I had the money, I wouldn't have my Blue right now. :mrgreen:

Thanks for the replies. Are you saying that there is a difference in green vs blue stripe, because one has triode and the other pentode (and which has which?)? And what does a tube rectifier do and affect the sound?

 

[eudaimonia02912]

The tube rectifier can only be used in the 10w and 45w modes of channels 1 and 2. Channel 3 uses solid state rectification. In general, tube rectification causes a kind of sag in tone, especially with heavy and loud bass tones. Tubes rectifiers react more slowly to voltage changes, and so notes tend to bloom.

The green stripe Mark IIIs are wired or partially wired in pentode (not sure what the exact deal is there*), but the blues are all triode. On the Mark V, you can choose between pentode or triode regardless of wattage. Personally, I like pentode for nearly every high gain application.


*Wasn't it something like the green stripes are pentode in the class A sockets but triode in the A/B sockets? Someone who knows IIIs better will correct me here.

 

[MrMarkIII]

I've had a blue stripe combo for 20 years, and a green stripe for two.
The differences are:
Blue stripe "Class A" setting = 15 watts, Simul-Class = 75 watts.
Green stripe "Class A" setting = 25 watts, Simul-Class = 85 watts.
A bit more clean headroom mostly noticeable at low volume.
Cranked with a band, not so much.
That's about it. It's like the difference between Mounds and Almond Joy.
Sometimes you feel like a triode, sometimes you don't.
I'm not selling either Mark III. The Mark IV, Lonestar, Heartbreaker, Maverick, Stiletto Ace, and Express were nice, but gone.

 

[laurens]

I'm not selling either Mark III. The Mark IV, Lonestar, Heartbreaker, Maverick, Stiletto Ace, and Express were nice, but gone.

That explains your forum name :mrgreen:

 

[screamingdaisy]

The Mark III is more raw. I'd call it more aggressive.

The Mark V is more refined. It's smoother with less rough edges. It gives up that "recorded tone" much easier, and it's knobs are less touchy. It also doesn't have to heat up for about 20 minutes before it looses it's harshness like my old Mark III did. The Mark V has the Mark IV's negative feedback loop bypass (Extreme mode).

The biggest bonus to the Mark V is that it has three separate EQs and R2 is every bit as good as LD. The reverb is also way better and it does lower volumes better.

The trade off is that the Mark V has the drive internally set at 7 3/4, so you loose a bit of configurable there and it doesn't have the pull deep knob, which is a bit of an issue for some people.

As for tone... it's pretty subjective. It's not the same amp as the Mark III, so tonally you may prefer one or the other. I prefer the Mark V myself... probably because I'm more into the Mark IV sound than the Mark IIC+/III sound.

 

[Neptical]

I love my Mark IIIs ( best amps ever--and they will go nowhere fast 8) ), but I like how the Mark V has a modern sound to it while retaining that Mark series sound. I've known a few Recto converts to this amp who are head over heels. They are extremely tight, thick, and punchy -- and a lead players dream. I don't like the stock tubes, so upon arrival of mine I will be taking them out and using my own mix. Personally, if I were you I would keep your III (if funds are not an issue) and get the V. They both have alot of similarities in tone but alot differences as well. I really dig how each channel is pretty much it's own amp. You get so much variety and options that for a guitar player such as myself, is pure tonal bliss.

~Nep~

 

[>Photi G<]

The Mark III is more raw. I'd call it more aggressive.

The Mark V is more refined. It's smoother with less rough edges. It gives up that "recorded tone" much easier, and it's knobs are less touchy. It also doesn't have to heat up for about 20 minutes before it looses it's harshness like my old Mark III did. The Mark V has the Mark IV's negative feedback loop bypass (Extreme mode).

The biggest bonus to the Mark V is that it has three separate EQs and R2 is every bit as good as LD. The reverb is also way better and it does lower volumes better.

The trade off is that the Mark V has the drive internally set at 7 3/4, so you loose a bit of configurable there and it doesn't have the pull deep knob, which is a bit of an issue for some people.

As for tone... it's pretty subjective. It's not the same amp as the Mark III, so tonally you may prefer one or the other. I prefer the Mark V myself... probably because I'm more into the Mark IV sound than the Mark IIC+/III sound.

This.

But the ch3 gain is internally set to 7.75. The "gain" knob on the front panel is actually the lead drive. The Pull Deep is still there, but it is permanently engaged, if you look at the schematic.

When I said earlier about the Pentode/Triode switch, Pentode is like a Green Stripe III which has the Class A sockets wired in pentode, producing an extra 10 watts, and is punchier. Triode is like a Blue Stripe III, and all III's before it, as well as the IIC+, where the Class A sockets were wired in triode, creating a spongier, smoother sound, and a 10 watt decrease in power.

If you still miss the Mark III sound, The Extreme mode will be to your liking. Though based off of a IV with the Presence Shift activated, it gets close to the III grind, so people say.

 

[screamingdaisy]

But the ch3 gain is internally set to 7.75. The "gain" knob on the front panel is actually the lead drive. The Pull Deep is still there, but it is permanently engaged, if you look at the schematic.

Cool. I think the manual said it was the drive knob that was hardwired, which kind of confused me at the time since it seemed backwards, but whatever... atleast I'll have it right now.

Did not know about the pull deep. I thought it was deleted/bypassed.

 

[mxr2000]

I own a blue stripe Mark III combo (hooked it up to a cab) and while it is a beast of an amp with thump and grind, the Mark V is gaining my interest. Having heard the tone setting vids from JP, i'm really considering the V now. I'm still stuck in 80's metal (think old style metallica), so can anyone comment on the V in comparison to the III for that soundwise? Is it for example Tighter/looser/ballsier or different in gain structure?

I owned both I can tell you from all the oldest mark amps this one is the most easy to dial a sound. any sound from the past with more control and with more pro sound, its like Studio preamp<-- sounds great and Mesa Quad Preamp <----- Pro quality sound.. Same from the mark III and MarV

 

[laurens]

Thanks all, I couldn't resist and ordered a Mark V!

 

[JOEY B.]

The Pull Deep is still there, but it is permanently engaged, if you look at the schematic.

If this is true, the coupling capacitor in the original DRG C+ lets much more lows pass through the signal. http://forum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=37701

 

[&gt;Photi G&lt;]

The Pull Deep is still there, but it is permanently engaged, if you look at the schematic.

If this is true, the coupling capacitor in the original DRG C+ lets much more lows pass through the signal. http://forum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=37701

Correct. But that coupling capacitor isn't there. It was replaced with the smaller cap found In Non-EQ C+'s, like Doug's Royal Cness. But the 15uF cathode bypass cap that is engaged when Pull Deep is on, is present in the Mark V. I dont' know how the switching matrix works, but it seems that the other modes get two 2.2uF capacitors in parallel instead. This simulates the resistor in the circuit when the pull deep isn't engaged.

 

[screamingdaisy]

Correct. But that coupling capacitor isn't there. It was replaced with the smaller cap found In Non-EQ C+'s, like Doug's Royal Cness. But the 15uF cathode bypass cap that is engaged when Pull Deep is on, is present in the Mark V. I dont' know how the switching matrix works, but it seems that the other modes get two 2.2uF capacitors in parallel instead. This simulates the resistor in the circuit when the pull deep isn't engaged.

So... are you saying that one of the modes has pull deep on permanently and that the other two modes don't?


And, on a side note; I wonder how hard it would be to mod the Mark V so that Mark II mode had the larger cap? I'm not a tech, so I have no idea...

 

[JOEY B.]

The Pull Deep is still there, but it is permanently engaged, if you look at the schematic.

If this is true, the coupling capacitor in the original DRG C+ lets much more lows pass through the signal. http://forum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=37701

Correct. But that coupling capacitor isn't there. It was replaced with the smaller cap found In Non-EQ C+'s, like Doug's Royal Cness. But the 15uF cathode bypass cap that is engaged when Pull Deep is on, is present in the Mark V. I dont' know how the switching matrix works, but it seems that the other modes get two 2.2uF capacitors in parallel instead. This simulates the resistor in the circuit when the pull deep isn't engaged.

Now you have got me confused. In which modes of channel 3 of the Mark V is the "always on Pull Deep" active?

 

[&gt;Photi G&lt;]

Now you have got me confused. In which modes of channel 3 of the Mark V is the "always on Pull Deep" active?

Sorry about that. I am confused too, as the schematic I have excludes the switching matrix for me to see how it works too. All I know is that on the cathode of the V6A mixer amplifier, there are 3 bypass capacitors. Two are 2.2uF wired in parallel, and the other is a 15uF. In the original C+, a 15uF is activated when the Master knob is pulled. In the schematic, there is a relay to ground that selects either the 2x 2.2uF caps, or the 15uF cap. This relay coincides with Preamp Mode 7, which is the C+ mode. But it is unclear which capacitor(s) it selects during that mode. The schematic suggests that the 2x 2.2uF caps are selected in mode 7, but I hope that is a misprint (which happens all too often in Mesa schematics :lol: ), and the 15uF cap is really selected. I don't own a Mark V, so I couldn't scope it out and see for myself. I suppose the relay could be removed, and a jumper to ground could be attached to the cathode of the 15uF cap so that the effective "Pull Deep" is always engaged.

So, It looks like, If the schematic is printed correctly, Pull Deep is engaged for IV and Extreme ONLY. This preamp stage is bypassed in channels 1 and 2, so it doesn't apply there.

Here's a snapshot so you get the idea:

 

[JOEY B.]

So, It looks like, If the schematic is printed correctly, Pull Deep is engaged for IV and Extreme ONLY. This preamp stage is bypassed in channels 1 and 2, so it doesn't apply there.

Here's a snapshot so you get the idea:

I wonder if this switch is not tied to the high frequency differences in the channel 3 modes. If I recall, there was no "Pull Deep" feature on the Mark IV.

 

[screamingdaisy]

I wonder if this switch is not tied to the high frequency differences in the channel 3 modes. If I recall, there was no "Pull Deep" feature on the Mark IV.

Isn't the Mark IV's "Pull Fat" the same thing?