Amp Recommendation: Fender Convert - Need help choosing a Mesa - 5:50 Express Plus, LSC, LSS, or something else? Help

[Darkhorse]

Hi All:

I've had a Fender Twin Reverb '65 Reissue for the past few years and I'm looking to trade in/up for a better amp and preferably an amp with a smaller watt mode if not altogether smaller watts. I play rhythm/lead vocals in a band that plays stuff like the Gaslight Anthem, Killers, Foo Fighters, Kings of Leon, etc. In other words most of the time I'm strumming eighth note chords or letting chords hang out. I've always been drawn to the 'fender clean tone' with a slight bit of overdrive/breakup. Lately though I've realized how ill-fitted my twin is to the job. It's heavy as hell (I know Mesa's are heavy too), and more importantly it never ever breaks up at all. I've never played it above a 4 or 5 with my band in rehearsals or live because of how loud it is. As a result, the tone I'm playing 90% of the time is just the sound of my OCD (1.4) and/or Prince of Tone.

I'm looking to get a smaller watted amp that I can push into the 'sweet zone' more reliably. I also would like to be able to put a simple dotted 8th delay and perhaps some spacey reverb/swells. My lead guitarist plays a Mesa Express 5:50 and it makes my Twin Reverb sound thin and crap comparatively in the mix. She doesn't really need a distortion pedal at all to get solid leads. That said I have thought her clean is sometimes a little lacking in character/jangle.

I've read and watched several videos about the Lonestar Classic, Lonestar Special, and the 5:50 Express Plus, which supposedly incorporates some of the Lonestar circuitry (not sure what) for better cleans. I haven't played any of the Mark series, but it seems like overkill for my needs. Above all I want a great rhythm slightly-overdrive tone that is on the verge of breakup and will pair well with my OCD and/or Prince of Tone. I would also love to have a solid lead tone if it's needed and an amp that can take my Timeline/H9 delays/effects well and a Boss Chorus for when I'm feeling 80's (I sometimes tend to write Joy Division-y stuff).

My exact rig:
American Pro HSS Stratocaster.
Current Amp: '65 Twin Reverb Reissue
EP Compressor (Not sure I even need this) > Prince of Tone > OCD (1.4) > Timeline > H9 > Neunaber Immerse.

We only play out maybe twice a month. Budget wise, if someone tells me the LSC/LSS are the absolute way to go, I'll stretch and get one. If the 5:50 Express Plus gets me just as good of cleans, I'd love not to spend the extra $$. But I'd really appreciate people's opinions on what they think sounds best for me. The other I've had my eye on are the Deluxe Reverbs and/or the 15 watt Princeton Reverbs. But that Express Plus my lead plays has really piqued my interest in Mesa.

Should I go for the LSC? the LSS? The Express 5:50 Plus? Something else altogether? Should I try removing tubes from my Twin Reverb first and see where that lands me?

Thanks all. Options paralysis.

 

[Darkhorse]

hrm....was it something I said?

 

[b00g13mk2B]

Go try those amps. Sounds like you want at least 50 watts, is that for clean headroom or stage level?. The Lone Star is supposed to be a great clean amp, but so is the Express. If you can go less watts, the Mark V 25 combo was just announced.

I play an Express 5:25 + and the clean channel is great. If stage volume is loud, I need to raise or tilt it to hear. If you are not miked and the band is loud or plays big places, get at least 50W

 

[green_henry]

If you can find one, I'd recommend checking out a Blue Angel. It will get you that Fender sound plus a Vox sound plus a blend of both. It won't get very dirty on its own but should sound great with an OCD

 

[Voron]

Maybe it will sound strange, but try a Mini Rectifier with this first channel in push mode (25w and 10w). It can be the amp you want!
I know it's not the first amp you think when you convert from Fender, but just try it.
And you get the second channel for your lead tones as well

 

[himmelhund]

Hi Darkhorse,

I own two Express 5:50s, one is the plus version. They are excellent amps, IMO 50w will cover just about any gig venue and I love the ability to drop down to 5w single-ended Pentode mode.. the 25w Class A is also a great thing on the + version.

I can highly recommend these amps and they are available pretty cheap (used) if you shop around... I personally avoid ever buying new gear if I can.

both my amps are heads, I don't use combos anymore as they are heavy AND bulky.

One thing about the sound of your Fender - you mentioned that you can't push it into breakup (probably without cranking up too loud) that is not the AMP that is a function of the SPEAKERS.

Speakers in combo amps are usually ferrite /ceramic speakers and inevitably have a power handling capacity greater than the amp's output (for obvious reasons). What you need are better SPEAKERS. I highly recommend Tone Tubbies or at least any speaker with hemp cones - the frequency response characteristics are really nice and the speaker cones are thinnner and more responsive than paper.

If you want breakup, try a speaker that is not so STIFF (Power handling capacity, again) which means: try a lower power capacity and hemp cones. for instance, you might try a pair of speakers that have 50w capacity EACH in your Twin. That would give you a combined capacity of around 100w and you will not blow them out.

I think guitar players tend to modify their guitars and amps way too soon - speakers are a CRITICAL part of the sound chain and usually overlooked.

The smooth, mellow distortion that comes from speaker cone breakup is much nicer than the fizzy distortion coming out of an overdriven first stage.

 

[Bross63]

I don't have any experience with the Lone Star or Express amps, but like you I have always wanted a Fender like, rich clean tone but also the ability to get to light (or more) breakup at much lower decibel levels (for home use and practice) than can be achieved even in the Deluxe Reverb or Princeton.

I have had a Boogie Mark III that I bought new around 1989, and while it's an incredibly versatile amp, it has never really been exactly what I wanted overall. Yes it can produce very nice clean tones, and yes it can do all manner of overdrive and distortion, but there has always been something lacking even if hard to describe exactly.

Recently I purchased a Fillmore 50 head, and WOW! Reading about it and seeing a large number of video reviews of it the Fillmore series appeared to be what I have always wanted in an amp and what I have always wished my Mark III would do. The Fillmore does great Fender (blackface) like clean tones that are full and rich yet can be as sparkly as you want them to be also (while still not being brittle or harsh). In the Clean mode when pushing the Gain past 12:00 it starts to gently breakup with wonderful soft clipping, again very blackface Fender like. Pushing the gain past 1:00 or 2:00 (depending on guitar/pickups, etc.) and all the way from there to max the amp starts to act more like a Fender tweed and will produce a fantastic range of overdriven tones that remain open and very responsive (uncompressed). In the Drive mode it produces super thick clean tones up to around 9:00 or so, but the Drive mode shifts the frequency profile with more mids and less bottom than the Clean mode. Tone controls can of course help to shape the frequencies to your liking, but Drive is designed to be a different sound than Clean even when both are producing clean tones. Above 9:00 in Drive breakup starts to emerge with soft clipping. It goes from edge of breakup through a range of overdriven tones up to around 1:00ish and remains open and largely uncompressed through that range. The line of where overdrive ends and distortion begins is certainly a blurry one and also subjective, but I consider the range from 1:00ish and above to start transitioning beyond overdrive into distortion, and the higher the gain settings from there on the more compression starts to occur. The Hi mode can also produce clean tones, but the range of the gain dial is very small before breakup starts to occur. All gain settings in Hi mode will produce more compression for a given amount of breakup than the Drive mode, and Hi will also go further into high gain distortion than Drive, as would be expected.

While there are differences in the frequency profiles of each mode in the Fillmore, having two separate channels allows you to use a different mode in each channel and set the tone controls to dial in the best sounds for each mode. My Mark III, while being able to switch between 3 different modes, has a single set of tone controls which means those tone settings apply always, no matter the mode selected. That means that going from Rhythm 1 to Rhythm 2 is almost impossible due to the drastic change in frequency profiles of those two modes (much more pronounced than the difference in the Fillmore Clean, Drive, and Hi modes). You can also of course set both Channels of the Fillmore to the same mode with one channel set for clean and the other with higher gain settings to get the overdrive flavor you want.

Others may not agree, especially hardcore Fender folks, but to me the Fillmore is like a great version of a classic blackface Fender that allows you to have Fender like clean tones but also be able to drive into breakup but at decibel levels that are functional in a wide range of venues from bedroom to full on gigging. And it also has a bit of Fender tweed like character available in it as well. In addition it also offers a world of sounds well beyond the Fender tones it offers, and that makes it a great option for many who want both Fender like cleans and driven tones as well as some driven tones that are more "British" sounding. It's an extremely versatile amp that is also more straightforward in its design and controls than a Mark series amp.

Again, I have no experience with the Lone Star or Express amps, so others who do and are also familiar with the Fillmore amps may have other thoughts. But hopefully some of this helps.

 

[Stratolespaul]

Hi Darkhorse,

I own two Express 5:50s, one is the plus version. They are excellent amps, IMO 50w will cover just about any gig venue and I love the ability to drop down to 5w single-ended Pentode mode.. the 25w Class A is also a great thing on the + version.

I can highly recommend these amps and they are available pretty cheap (used) if you shop around... I personally avoid ever buying new gear if I can.

both my amps are heads, I don't use combos anymore as they are heavy AND bulky.

One thing about the sound of your Fender - you mentioned that you can't push it into breakup (probably without cranking up too loud) that is not the AMP that is a function of the SPEAKERS.

Speakers in combo amps are usually ferrite /ceramic speakers and inevitably have a power handling capacity greater than the amp's output (for obvious reasons). What you need are better SPEAKERS. I highly recommend Tone Tubbies or at least any speaker with hemp cones - the frequency response characteristics are really nice and the speaker cones are thinnner and more responsive than paper.

If you want breakup, try a speaker that is not so STIFF (Power handling capacity, again) which means: try a lower power capacity and hemp cones. for instance, you might try a pair of speakers that have 50w capacity EACH in your Twin. That would give you a combined capacity of around 100w and you will not blow them out.

I think guitar players tend to modify their guitars and amps way too soon - speakers are a CRITICAL part of the sound chain and usually overlooked.

The smooth, mellow distortion that comes from speaker cone breakup is much nicer than the fizzy distortion coming out of an overdriven first stage.

I have to respectfully disagree with you on the reason that Fender Twins stay so clean, for so long. They're 85 watts! With their gain architecture, pushing those four 6L6s takes a lot of volume. I'm assuming the OP wants power tube compression/overdrive, not speaker breakup.

 

[user 41014]

I like my distortion from the preamp tubes and as much headroom as possible from my power tubes and speakers. It's all about choice. I hope after 5 years the OP made his choice.

The 5:50 is extremely versatile. I can't see it not pulling off what was desired.

The obvious answer was all of them! Maybe not the LSC given what he didn't want, but yes on LSS, Express, maybe BA, TA30, and likely both Fillmore and TC.

 

[Stratolespaul]

I like my distortion from the preamp tubes and as much headroom as possible from my power tubes and speakers. It's all about choice. I hope after 5 years the OP made his choice.

The 5:50 is extremely versatile. I can't see it not pulling off what was desired.

The obvious answer was all of them! Maybe not the LSC given what he didn't want, but yes on LSS, Express, maybe BA, TA30, and likely both Fillmore and TC.

Lol! I didn't even note the date from the OP! I'm new around here and the the post popped up on the 'new posts' notification I got.

Well, I I hope he was able to make a good decision!

 

[shawnohio]

Hi All:

I've had a Fender Twin Reverb '65 Reissue for the past few years and I'm looking to trade in/up for a better amp and preferably an amp with a smaller watt mode if not altogether smaller watts. I play rhythm/lead vocals in a band that plays stuff like the Gaslight Anthem, Killers, Foo Fighters, Kings of Leon, etc. In other words most of the time I'm strumming eighth note chords or letting chords hang out. I've always been drawn to the 'fender clean tone' with a slight bit of overdrive/breakup. Lately though I've realized how ill-fitted my twin is to the job. It's heavy as hell (I know Mesa's are heavy too), and more importantly it never ever breaks up at all. I've never played it above a 4 or 5 with my band in rehearsals or live because of how loud it is. As a result, the tone I'm playing 90% of the time is just the sound of my OCD (1.4) and/or Prince of Tone.

I'm looking to get a smaller watted amp that I can push into the 'sweet zone' more reliably. I also would like to be able to put a simple dotted 8th delay and perhaps some spacey reverb/swells. My lead guitarist plays a Mesa Express 5:50 and it makes my Twin Reverb sound thin and crap comparatively in the mix. She doesn't really need a distortion pedal at all to get solid leads. That said I have thought her clean is sometimes a little lacking in character/jangle.

I've read and watched several videos about the Lonestar Classic, Lonestar Special, and the 5:50 Express Plus, which supposedly incorporates some of the Lonestar circuitry (not sure what) for better cleans. I haven't played any of the Mark series, but it seems like overkill for my needs. Above all I want a great rhythm slightly-overdrive tone that is on the verge of breakup and will pair well with my OCD and/or Prince of Tone. I would also love to have a solid lead tone if it's needed and an amp that can take my Timeline/H9 delays/effects well and a Boss Chorus for when I'm feeling 80's (I sometimes tend to write Joy Division-y stuff).

My exact rig:
American Pro HSS Stratocaster.
Current Amp: '65 Twin Reverb Reissue
EP Compressor (Not sure I even need this) > Prince of Tone > OCD (1.4) > Timeline > H9 > Neunaber Immerse.

We only play out maybe twice a month. Budget wise, if someone tells me the LSC/LSS are the absolute way to go, I'll stretch and get one. If the 5:50 Express Plus gets me just as good of cleans, I'd love not to spend the extra $$. But I'd really appreciate people's opinions on what they think sounds best for me. The other I've had my eye on are the Deluxe Reverbs and/or the 15 watt Princeton Reverbs. But that Express Plus my lead plays has really piqued my interest in Mesa.

Should I go for the LSC? the LSS? The Express 5:50 Plus? Something else altogether? Should I try removing tubes from my Twin Reverb first and see where that lands me?

Thanks all. Options paralysis.

I have the 5:50 original, chose over the V2 with 5 band because the original doesn't fizz, the V2 sounds like it does to my ears anyway. I had a silver face twin ultralinear back in the day. Have a 68 pro now, working on getting the silver twin out of it. I ran t75s and in the pro put a t75, it's actually better than when in the twin. Anyway i would use both if at all possible, typically fender or mesa left with mods, and a marshall right. The 550 is incredibly versatile, you may have to flick a switch from time to time but that's easy. Strongly suggest 550 original. It won't sound like what you want or think, but it's got the goods and sits in a mix. Loud. Versatile. Easy to dial in. Keep the bass low unless you roll with two speakers, then wow. Ask me any questions.

 

[shawnohio]

Hi All:

I've had a Fender Twin Reverb '65 Reissue for the past few years and I'm looking to trade in/up for a better amp and preferably an amp with a smaller watt mode if not altogether smaller watts. I play rhythm/lead vocals in a band that plays stuff like the Gaslight Anthem, Killers, Foo Fighters, Kings of Leon, etc. In other words most of the time I'm strumming eighth note chords or letting chords hang out. I've always been drawn to the 'fender clean tone' with a slight bit of overdrive/breakup. Lately though I've realized how ill-fitted my twin is to the job. It's heavy as hell (I know Mesa's are heavy too), and more importantly it never ever breaks up at all. I've never played it above a 4 or 5 with my band in rehearsals or live because of how loud it is. As a result, the tone I'm playing 90% of the time is just the sound of my OCD (1.4) and/or Prince of Tone.

I'm looking to get a smaller watted amp that I can push into the 'sweet zone' more reliably. I also would like to be able to put a simple dotted 8th delay and perhaps some spacey reverb/swells. My lead guitarist plays a Mesa Express 5:50 and it makes my Twin Reverb sound thin and crap comparatively in the mix. She doesn't really need a distortion pedal at all to get solid leads. That said I have thought her clean is sometimes a little lacking in character/jangle.

I've read and watched several videos about the Lonestar Classic, Lonestar Special, and the 5:50 Express Plus, which supposedly incorporates some of the Lonestar circuitry (not sure what) for better cleans. I haven't played any of the Mark series, but it seems like overkill for my needs. Above all I want a great rhythm slightly-overdrive tone that is on the verge of breakup and will pair well with my OCD and/or Prince of Tone. I would also love to have a solid lead tone if it's needed and an amp that can take my Timeline/H9 delays/effects well and a Boss Chorus for when I'm feeling 80's (I sometimes tend to write Joy Division-y stuff).

My exact rig:
American Pro HSS Stratocaster.
Current Amp: '65 Twin Reverb Reissue
EP Compressor (Not sure I even need this) > Prince of Tone > OCD (1.4) > Timeline > H9 > Neunaber Immerse.

We only play out maybe twice a month. Budget wise, if someone tells me the LSC/LSS are the absolute way to go, I'll stretch and get one. If the 5:50 Express Plus gets me just as good of cleans, I'd love not to spend the extra $$. But I'd really appreciate people's opinions on what they think sounds best for me. The other I've had my eye on are the Deluxe Reverbs and/or the 15 watt Princeton Reverbs. But that Express Plus my lead plays has really piqued my interest in Mesa.

Should I go for the LSC? the LSS? The Express 5:50 Plus? Something else altogether? Should I try removing tubes from my Twin Reverb first and see where that lands me?

Thanks all. Options paralysis.

Ok, three things, one I prefer the express original, it has the same eq curve in a knob, easier. It also sounds less fizzy. You can find them online for 800-1200. Two, it's eight amps in one. You can't foot switch between all eight, who cares. It's truly wired as eight separate circuits, all useful and you'll find greatness. Three take time to try different tubes to get it to sound the way you want. Add another speaker and it's massive. It's a fast, versatile dependable rock machine.

 

[mhd333]

A used LoneStar Special Combo is probably worth a look.

On the other hand, if you want to really dive in and Boogie, a Mark series will do what you want now plus open up a lot of avenues for future creative exploration.

Boogies are addictive and fabulous amps that are also made and backed by really awesome people. Whichever you choose you really can’t go wrong.

 

[blueshurler]

Hi All:

I've had a Fender Twin Reverb '65 Reissue for the past few years and I'm looking to trade in/up for a better amp and preferably an amp with a smaller watt mode if not altogether smaller watts. I play rhythm/lead vocals in a band that plays stuff like the Gaslight Anthem, Killers, Foo Fighters, Kings of Leon, etc. In other words most of the time I'm strumming eighth note chords or letting chords hang out. I've always been drawn to the 'fender clean tone' with a slight bit of overdrive/breakup. Lately though I've realized how ill-fitted my twin is to the job. It's heavy as hell (I know Mesa's are heavy too), and more importantly it never ever breaks up at all. I've never played it above a 4 or 5 with my band in rehearsals or live because of how loud it is. As a result, the tone I'm playing 90% of the time is just the sound of my OCD (1.4) and/or Prince of Tone.

I'm looking to get a smaller watted amp that I can push into the 'sweet zone' more reliably. I also would like to be able to put a simple dotted 8th delay and perhaps some spacey reverb/swells. My lead guitarist plays a Mesa Express 5:50 and it makes my Twin Reverb sound thin and crap comparatively in the mix. She doesn't really need a distortion pedal at all to get solid leads. That said I have thought her clean is sometimes a little lacking in character/jangle.

I've read and watched several videos about the Lonestar Classic, Lonestar Special, and the 5:50 Express Plus, which supposedly incorporates some of the Lonestar circuitry (not sure what) for better cleans. I haven't played any of the Mark series, but it seems like overkill for my needs. Above all I want a great rhythm slightly-overdrive tone that is on the verge of breakup and will pair well with my OCD and/or Prince of Tone. I would also love to have a solid lead tone if it's needed and an amp that can take my Timeline/H9 delays/effects well and a Boss Chorus for when I'm feeling 80's (I sometimes tend to write Joy Division-y stuff).

My exact rig:
American Pro HSS Stratocaster.
Current Amp: '65 Twin Reverb Reissue
EP Compressor (Not sure I even need this) > Prince of Tone > OCD (1.4) > Timeline > H9 > Neunaber Immerse.

We only play out maybe twice a month. Budget wise, if someone tells me the LSC/LSS are the absolute way to go, I'll stretch and get one. If the 5:50 Express Plus gets me just as good of cleans, I'd love not to spend the extra $$. But I'd really appreciate people's opinions on what they think sounds best for me. The other I've had my eye on are the Deluxe Reverbs and/or the 15 watt Princeton Reverbs. But that Express Plus my lead plays has really piqued my interest in Mesa.

Should I go for the LSC? the LSS? The Express 5:50 Plus? Something else altogether? Should I try removing tubes from my Twin Reverb first and see where that lands me?

Thanks all. Options paralysis.

In my opinion, a fender twin is definitely not the right amp for what you're doing. But you already know that. I have been a fender fanatic for maybe 20 years? But I am a blues rock player. When I was looking to upgrade from a fender Tweed Princeton with a 12-inch cannabis Rex I started looking into Mesa amps based on recommendations from other players and I discovered the Fillmore 50. Checking into it I discovered that basically what Mesa was trying to do was to create the ultimate fender amp. Something with incredible cleans and reverb but that could also really overdrive and burn. Turns out I bought one, and it was the right decision. It's a fantastic amp and you can turn it down to 25 watts if you want, it has two channels but each channel has three different overdrive configurations, just check it out on YouTube and see if it's what you think you need. I think you'll love it. Good luck!

 

[spawnofthesith]

I have to respectfully disagree with you on the reason that Fender Twins stay so clean, for so long. They're 85 watts! With their gain architecture, pushing those four 6L6s takes a lot of volume. I'm assuming the OP wants power tube compression/overdrive, not speaker breakup.

Yeah, speakers can play a roll but headroom and circuit design are playing much bigger roles

I had both a rectoverb 50 combo, and a 5:50+ combo. Both 50 watts, both had C90 speaker. The rectoverb had no headroom at volume and I couldn't have a clean tone playing with a drummer. 5:50+ on the other hand has one of my favorite clean channels ever and stayed nice and lush and clean at any volume

 

[Stratolespaul]

Yeah, speakers can play a roll but headroom and circuit design are playing much bigger roles

I had both a rectoverb 50 combo, and a 5:50+ combo. Both 50 watts, both had C90 speaker. The rectoverb had no headroom at volume and I couldn't have a clean tone playing with a drummer. 5:50+ on the other hand has one of my favorite clean channels ever and stayed nice and lush and clean at any volume

Yep, I mean, let's face it, we all know the gain structure of a Recto!

 

[Stratolespaul]

Yeah, speakers can play a roll but headroom and circuit design are playing much bigger roles

I had both a rectoverb 50 combo, and a 5:50+ combo. Both 50 watts, both had C90 speaker. The rectoverb had no headroom at volume and I couldn't have a clean tone playing with a drummer. 5:50+ on the other hand has one of my favorite clean channels ever and stayed nice and lush and clean at any volume

I thought about it, and figured even though we're way past the OPs question, I think the topic is still viable and good for discussion. I would have made a simple recommendation. A Fender Deluxe Reverb. They're versatile and loud enough for virtually any reasonable gig. Let's face it, even 30w is very loud for clubs and I know that I never get to push my amps (30-100w). My Lonestar? It's the original version, so I don't have the 10w option, just 50 or 100w, and then of course, the tweed or regular switch. It's a great option, but quite heavy and very 'choked' to get it down to club level and my tone suffers as a result. Obviously it's the same with my Super Reverb, JTM45 (my favorite of all time), or even my PRS "30" 1x12 that I prefer using with a second 1x12 closed-back. What is my current most versatile and easiest 'grab and go' choice? My Deluxe Reverb Tonemaster. Yep, a SS modeling amp. 3-4 years ago, I never dreamed I would say such a thing. Soundmen love them. Dial down the 22w and still push the amp, you can even have a quiet stage (which I can't stand) with the direct out and ability to mute the internal 1x12. The tube version sounds slightly better, but in a mix, I would defy anyone to notice any difference whatsoever. I just hope that reason will take over and clubs will realize that people like hearing cranked tube amps with feedback, squealing, and other fun challenges, but man, it sounds so good and it's raw, organic, and less "perfect". I feel like there's some movement in this direction. Fingers crossed!

Nowadays, I would LOVE to be amp shopping. There are so many incredible options out there. We're definitely in the new golden age of gear.

 

[Amptech]

My vote is for the Express 5:50+.. I love em, that's why I have 7 of them..