Advice for getting lonestar like clean tone on mk V ch 1

[ozboy]

I have an old second hand lonestar and a mk V. Lucky me. My friend Wolf Mail a pro blues guitarist much prefers to play the lonestar

I like both amps well enough.

However there is no doubt that the mk V tends to sound more "nasal" than the lonestar. This is particularly obvious on channel 1

Recently I've been trying to emulate the lone star ch 1 sound on the Mk 5 but I can't get close. I've tried moving the dials on the mk v to the same settings, turning the amp volume up and the guitar volume down but I still can't get the same sound.

Any advice?

 

[Zlofengir]

Can't say that I've had the pleasure of playing a Lonestar, but I have managed to get some great clean tones out of Ch. 1 of my V.

First, a lot depends on the speakers that you're using; my 1x12 combo with a vintage EV 12L sounds totally different through a Marshall 4x12 with Celestions, even with the same settings.

Second, your guitar's pickups have to be taken into consideration...

I prefer FAT mode in Ch. 1 for cleans, it has more girth to it than Clean, and not as much gain as Tweed. (Not that you can't get some killer pristine clean out of it too) In any case, start with 45w, unless you want that extra headroom...
Gain-9:00-10:30
Master-9:30-11:30
Presence-To taste
Treble-9:00-10:00
Mids-10:00-11:00
Bass-10:00-12:00

That's just how I do it; I'm also running EL34 type tubes, so that may make a little difference. But a good rule of thumb is, start with the master high, and the gain low; find the middle ground that makes your ears tingle, and you're there.

When all else fails, see what the cats at Boogie have to say... http://youtu.be/NUDW4JYcUj8?list=UUyheCvi8Msep7IfESwI7ueA

 

[bandit2013]

I would agree with Zlofengir.
Speaker, tubes, guitar, pickups all take a roll in the tone. Is the Lonestar a head, or combo (1x12 or 2x12). I believe the combo uses the same speaker MC90 as used in the Mark V combo. Also, same question applies, is your Mark V a combo or head? Based on your description it may be a head and you are driving V30's. That would explain the nasal tone. If you have a MKV combo( double check the speaker, some have been made by special request with the V30, standard is the MC90. You could try one of two things, do a safe mismatch on the speaker, move from 8 ohm to 4 ohms output jack. There will be a slight tone change. Typically the 8 ohm output will sound brighter than the 4 ohm. Assuming the Lonestar is a combo. look at the speakers to confirm they are MC90 black shadow speakers.

I recently converted my Mark V to a combo (modified to front mount) and installed an EVM12L ZWBL. I prefer the open cavity for more natural clean channel tones and character. So the Combo made more sense. However, after converting the 412 from V30 to EV, that change in itself opened up a world of tone that was left undiscovered in the Mark V. Clean channel was warmer and not as dry and airy as the open back combo amp tone I was getting from my Mark IV.

I use similar settings as well. Normally I run SED =C= 6L6GC which have more depth than the Mesa (Ruby) 6L6GC STR440. The V will sound a bit nasal though the V30. That was my complaint about the MC90 in my Mark IV combo. The EV speaker really makes a difference with the Mark Amps (as well as the DR Roadster). Reason why I changed the Recto cab over to EV. I am using the V30 in a traditional sized 412 for the RA100.

Another option for speaker choice is the Jensen JET series Blackbird 100W speaker. The Alnico driver is amazing clean and has some great characteristics when driven hard. I have a WGS copy (WGS Black Hawk HP100) of the Jensen speaker. I should have gone with Jensen due to the higher continuous program rating.

Mesa branded (JJ) 12ax7 sound great so no need to change them. Clean channel is pristine, piano like tones are easily achieved with the Mark V using the settings provided by Zlofengir. Tweed need a bit of adjustment otherwise it will sound ice picky with some guitars. I have done some tube rolling with the V to enhance its characteristic and to tone down the ice pick. Mullard reissue 12ax7 in V1, V3 and V6 helps to reduce the high frequency roll off. V2 is standard Mesa and the V4 and V5 (preferred series 7025) for reverb and late gain stages of CH3. I use the Mark V for a variety of styles so I needed to address the ice pick and be able to use all of the modes of the amp. I am currently running Gold Lion KT77, I will change over to 6L6 every now an then. Clean channel sounds excellent with either.

 

[Zlofengir]

I'm with Bandit, my V didn't sound like a Boogie until I replaced the MC90 with a vintage EV 12L. Those high wattage speakers are perfect for getting those tight, clean tones.

Eminence has a couple of 200 watters that are similar to the EV; something else to try...

 

[bandit2013]

I would say yes to the EV, but the MC90 does have its merits too.

Cabinet or open back combo?

The Mark V can get some spectacular cleans with either, however the combo form will be less compressed in character.

Basically tune the channel by ear. Trick may be to use the gain as the volume control. With 6L6 on board, you will get the most chime and bell like tones. EL34, 6CA7 or KT77 will add a little edge to the overall character of the clean channel. If your cabinet has V30, expect a shift in frequency response as the speaker has more resonant peak frequency in the upper midrange so adjust the mids on the EQ to compensate. I usually set the typical V pattern and boost the center control to suit my taste. Even the preset works quite well. Not sure how the Lonestar would compare.

To be honest, may not be possible. I would love to get the RA100 tone out of my Roadster, but that will not happen. Same goes for the character of CH2 and CH3 of the Mark V. Hard to duplicate that with my other amps. I can get close but still there is a difference. I only have two guitars that seem to provide amazing tones in all of my amps, the others vary greatly in one amp to the other. So if the Lonstar is all that spectacular or has a specific character in is tone, may not be possible with a different amp that does not share a common gain stage topography, voltage bias, and filter networks.

 

[Zlofengir]

I would like to hear the MC90 in a closed cabinet... Don't get me wrong, it's a great speaker, just not "the" Boogie sound that I grew up lusting after.

Speaking of which, while Ch. 1 has some awesome clean tones, it can't touch my Mk II with a JBL D130F; that amp simply blows the V away; Tweed mode comes close, but misses something magical that I can't describe. I use the EQ to dial in the bottom end that I lose with the open back, and get a similar low end chunk like a Marshall cab. I also like using Extreme mode for clean sounds; it does it really well if you start with the master about 11:00, and the gain around 8:30-9:00...

I've also ventured to compare the II to the C+ in the Mk V, and amazingly, I can get a similar high gain tone out of the Mk II, with the Gain Boost kicked in; I'll put it up against a factory C+ any day of the week.

 

[bandit2013]

It seems we went way off topic here. but at least the original question was satisfied early.

In general terms of course. Do not put an MC90 in a sealed cabinet! It will sound terrible. You would not want to hear that unless you like flub followed by the crackling tone after you blew out the voice coil (I believe this is what did in the MC90 ) I have experimented with this when I got an extension cab for my Mark IV (after removing the MC90 of course which was the donor speaker for the extension cab).
Most people do not have EV's in their cabinets. Hands down they are one of the best choices to get the boogie back into your amp. The Mark IV though a 412 with EV's is out of this world. It actually sounds great though a traditional sized cab with V30 (that surprised me). However with that amp, I settled on a Fane AXA Studio 12L which is similar to the EV classic. I bought the Fane after completing the 412 with EV and wanted to try something different at a lower cost point. Turns out neither the EV or the Fane really fit the Mark IV unless it was front mounted. Had to modify the grill frame to accomplish the task. Was quite easy with a router. I probably could have gotten away with rear mounting the EV with the Mark V, but considering the Power tubes were at the same position as the Mark IV, as well as the preamp tube shields, I wanted more room available to change tubes without having to remove the chassis. Turns out the preamp tubes on the V sit farther back than they do on the Mark IV.

The Mark V on the other hand, I feel does not sound very good though the V30. That is definitely the Nasal tone. It gets worse with a V30 in a combo. I had experimented with the V30's before I bought the RA100 which is the only Mesa amp that V30's make any sense. I even tried the Roadster through the V30 cab, seemed a bit muffled. However with the Mark V, Mark IV or the Roadster running both the EV and V30 cabinets as a full stack sounds great. I tried mixing EV and V30 in the same cabinet but that did not perform well. Separate cabinets was a better option. The RA100 is the only reason to keep the V30's as it does not sound all that great through the EV cab.
However, at low to moderate power levels the MC90 is not bad at all. I basically suffered with this speaker for 14 years in the Mark IV, 8 of those years I had an injury to my left arm and thought I would never play again, so there was no rush to modify the amp if that were the case. I did not take the opportunity to hear the Mark V with the MC90 when I did the head to combo conversion since I already had a two EVM12L black label speakers to use. From clean cleans to swamped FAT tones, including the Tweed (also having the right tubes in the amp) the Mark V shines and performs well. Push the envelope in CH2 or CH3, the EV will transform the anemic Mark V combo with MC90 into a new amp capable of delivering the goods for gigging and almost concert (a 1x12 just will not do for that). Take that one step further and add an oversized and ported extension cabinet and you will have the same capacity of a sealed 412 and yet retain the qualities of open back tone. My Mark V rig consists of just that, Combo and extension cab and WOW does it compete with the EV stuffed 412 sitting right next to it with a Roadster head sitting on top.

 

[ozboy]

I'm using a horizontal rectifier cabinet with v30s and a mk v head. The tone has improved recently with some tweaking, a bit more bass than I was previously using. The lonestar is a combo. The guitar is mostly a prs with 59/09 pups. Rolling the volume and tone down a bit helps.

I have been thinking of moving to an open 1x12 cabinet for the playing I do but I actually like the rectifier cab most of the time. However I do wish it was designed so I could tip it up at an angle and still put the head on top.

 

[bandit2013]

That is helpful.

You could always get a 2x12 Lonestar Cab which is open back dual MC90's. That would actually sound really good with the 2x12 V30 cab combined. Either that, you could opt for the Thiele 1x21 or one of the wide body 1x12 which all use MC90. You will get better response with a 2x12 cab. Typical single speaker cabs will sound a bit strained. The V30 recto 2x12 comes in two sizes, 30" wide or 26" wide. Lonestar cabs are 26" wide.

Another option would be to search for Vintage Mesa Thiele cab with black shadow EV.

I generaly run the volume at 11 oclock and roll in the gain to adjust. I also use the 90W mode at full power (on the power switch). You can also try the 45W and set the rectifier tracking to diode or try the Tube tracking. In the 45W mode, the amp will be class A. At 90W it is class A/B (sort of) but Tube rectification will be turned off. Perhaps rolling out the mids would help. Experiement with the EQ on or off, in preset or sliders.

 

[ozboy]

Thanks for the thoughts. I plugged the lonestar cabinet with the v90 black shadows into the Mkv head last night and disliked the results. I'd need to put time into redialing in all of the channels, so I am just going to work on making the rectifier cabinet sound as good as I can make it. In the process I have already found out that for 60s style blues thinking howling wolf london sessions that the tweed mode is very cool. A glassy tone to be sure but I'm getting to like it.

 

[bandit2013]

Well that is interesting. I always thought the MC90 had a good overall character. I actually disliked the Mark V with the V30 that I had in my Recto 412.

Can you make use of both cabinets thought the Mark V (use the two 4 ohm output jacks). I am curious on your thoughts.

Are you basically looking for the clean channel character and have no interest in the higher gain sections? What is your basic goal for the amp or what type of music is your desire? For Blues, Jazz and Classic Rock tones, I found the Mark V is okay but the RA100 was a more suitable amp for that type of style. Even the Roadster had my attention with those styles of music. I found the tweed mode to be a bit too glassy to some extent with the V, a bit on the brittle side. Same applies to the Edge voice of CH2 which tend to be the two settings I avoid using. Perhaps I have yet to figure out how to dial in the tone and gain settings. I do however use the tweed voice on the Roadster as well as the Brit voice which is similar. With the RA100, just dial up the gain on the clean channel and you have it. I basically play just about anything from mellow blues, to Heavy Metal. I focus more on the classic rock.

 

[ozboy]

Blues, rock even jazz and that's just the electric stuff

I could run the two cabs together, And was thinking of trying that. Suspect the sound will be muddy.

Spend most of my time on channel two in crunch mode, but I use all three channels.

There are a lot of different ways to use this amp and even after a couple of years I'm still finding out stuff. In the past I've been guilty of overusing the eq

Anyhow what this thread shows me is as ever it's me that's the problem, not the equipment. I'm a whole lot happier with clean channel now than a couple of days ago

 

[4406cuda]

My Mark V head sound improved dramatically after I installed SED Winged C 6L6's and Tungsol 12AX&'s.

I am also using a pair Bogner 1X12's with vintage 30's. I play everything from Country to Alice In Chains.

I am using Clean Bold, Crunch, and Mark IV all in Full Power 90

 

[bandit2013]

Yep,
The EQ can be great and also spoil your tone. I normally use the Preset control for CH2 (very seldom do I use the sliders). I may change to preset or sliders on CH1 (depends on what my tone goal is). CH3 is all sliders. Not necessarily a V shape but most of the time it is. I basically set up by ear, also depends on what cabinet I am using or which guitar I am playing.

I have been a fan of the SED=C= 6L6GC myself. However, I am using Gold Lion KT77 at the moment. The Mark V is quite flexible and responds to tube changes.

I would definitely try the two cabs you have at the same time. That would be similar to a half stack. Before you do, double check that both cabs are 8 ohms.

 

[bandit2013]

I finally heard a Lonestar, Unfortunately Mesa did not have any videos that would load if they were there. Perhaps adding a bit more gain on the clean channel and boost the presence will get you closer. From what I heard, seems like the Lonestar is almost at the onset of clip. Increasing the gain on the clean channel will get you close. (I could be way off too but give it a try anyways).