ACE 1x12 screams / is too bright when loud

[alie123]

Hello everyone,

I want to ask if someone else recognizes my problem, or have some advise.. I have the 1x12 ACE combo. After a few minor modifications (new tubes i.e.) my combo now sounds a lot better, but not yet at higher volume levels (band level)

Now when I play at home in my living room, and I set it at a medium volume my ACE sounds SUPER. Really. Never heard a tube amp that sounds so wonderfully great at this volume.!! Channel2 master is set at 9:30, and output also is at 9:30. When past 9:30 it gets screamy more and more. Treble is added and bass is removed. It looses the magic it has on lower volumes.. ? It reacts also very different (more direct) That's strange. I alsways tought it gets better the more you turn it up? Is ther something wrong with my combo, or what can it be ? Is it because it's just a 1x12 that can't handle all the output volume? or..

I want to use it in my band with the same quality sound I have on lower volumes...It has to be possilbe, isn't it? . I need your advise. Someone else with the same experience with the ACE ?

Thanks in advance!

 

[jglover51]

I'm having the same problem with my Ace 1x12: Great at bedroom levels, but trebly and thin at band levels. I've had JJ tubes in it the whole time, so it's not tubes. I'm thinking of trading it for a 90's Dual Rectifier...

 

[MusicManJP6]

Hey fellas. I had an Ace combo as well and found it too bright in all situations. I tried a speaker swap to a C90 but it lost too much bite. The Deuce is not as bright as the Ace and sounds amazing IMO. You might want to think about 'upgrading' to a Deuce head and 2x12 cab. Just my opinion...

 

[firstsong]

What kind of guitar are you playing? In my brief experience with this amp I am able to quickly get a great clean sound with my Epiphone Joe Pass hollowbody, yet the Fender Strat has me under some duress as it's already so bright. I'm very impressed at how this amp lets the tone of the guitar through then uses the EQ section to color that. Very transparent.

 

[alie123]

...hmm that's bad news. I really love the sound of it, I've never heard an amp that souds that good. The only problem is the "volume". Only when I crank it, to band levels it gets too bright & aggressive. In my opinium for this money this amp should sound good at higher volumes as well! Still it's strange to me. My main guitar is a good Fender with quality elements (vintage tallboys) I tried several other guitars, (i.e. Gibson Les Paul / etc ) and I agree, this amp let you guitar sound/wood shine trough, but still it did not sound good at higher levels. At the lower levels .. aaghh.. wooow. This is the sound I was looking for, and what I bought it for. But not only for home-use. Thats an expensive practise amp!

Thanks for the replies!

 

[Old BF Shred]

The fastest way to fatten up an Ace has 3 paths:
1-Use EQ (or FX processor w/ EQ) in the loop. The low end is lacking in the preamp by design, but the power amp can definitely handle more.
2-Change to GT's el34"M". Most low end of any el34 I've tried.
3-Use a 4x12 cab or at least speakers with more low end (I am not sure why Mesa chose V30's for the Ace combo).

Even with these ideas, you need to keep presence below 9 o'clock, bass up high and treble likely needs to be kept below noon as well.
The stilettos have a brightly voiced preamp so you just have to learn to tame it.
I have mine dialed in to where I am very happy with it, but it took some experimenting.
Also you say you replaced tubes, but did not specify which...the stock STR447 el34's only add to the problem, IMO (see step #1).
The stock preamp tubes aren't bad, but there are better (I am spoiled by my vintage Telefunken & Amperex 12ax7's in mine. )

I have tried all the above....
My Ace head and cab(s) absolutely shines at gig volume levels.

Good luck

 

[Old BF Shred]

the stock STR447 el34's only add to the problem, IMO (see step #1).

Oops, I mean 'see step #2' (hope I didn't step on #2! :lol: :lol: :lol: :shock: )

 

[alie123]

Thanks!

I have an EQ (maxon geq-7) May have to try that again. Last time I tried it, I wasn't very enthousiast. I have the idea that I lost 'tone', but the high feq's and the lows can be cutted/boosed very well. 4x12 cab may help. Want to try that as well (for gigs) or rather, I want a good 2x12 cab for gigs. Maybe that helps as well?

Tubes. Yes, I was thinking of buying those El34M's, but I don't know if this really makes big differences because my currently sound on average volumes is perfect, but not on 'band ' volumes is perfect. I have currently running SED =c= tubes, and in the preamp a mix of GT tubes and General electrics. (good tubes in my opinium) Also have the GT el34LS tubes, but was not very enthousiast on these. (aggresive) Do you think the EL34M's can be an inprovement on de SED's ? And in what performance indicator (number on the GT tube)

thanks!

 

[MusicManJP6]

GT brand power tubes must have a distortion rating between 4 and 6 to comply with Mesa's specs... other ratings will still work but won't sound as good as they will be too hot or cold... and will not last as long either...

 

[Jak0lantern01]

So what speakers are everyone recommending for that additional low end? I'm curious myself since I have a 2x12 waiting for speakers.

 

[fjs1962]

I've got a 112 Ace combo that I gig with. While I usually love SED =c= EL34s (got them in my Germino Lead 55 and have used them in several others) I didn't like them at all in the Ace. Too bright and "hard" sounding in it. I actually prefer the stock Mesa EL34s in the Ace after trying several different brands of EL34s in the amp. I also ended up prefering Mesa Russian 12AX7s in the Ace over my usual favorite Tung Sol and Chinese 12AX7s. The Mesa rep told me not to use the Mesa Chinese 12AX7s in the Ace as they tend to be brighter. He said stick with the Mesa Russian preamp tubes in the Ace.

 

[jglover51]

I solved my Stiletto Ace's brightness problem: I traded it for an Orange Rockerverb 50 head!!

I even disengaged the 1x12 and ran it to power a 4x12- did not solve the problem. The Ace did not have the power to produce enough low end at higher volumes, particularly on cleans. Much like a fat girl: I loved her in the bedroom, but hated her in public. :twisted:

 

[phyrexia]

Are you re-EQing the amp for high volumes? Or are you just turning up the masters?

Try the Electradyne, too.

 

[Old BF Shred]

Do you think the EL34M's can be an inprovement on de SED's ? And in what performance indicator (number on the GT tube)
thanks!

I have run both the GT 34M's and the SED =C=....they are tied for first place in my book. The SED's are known to be rugged and have great detail....you seem to hear EVERYTHING. Not the best low end, however.

On the other hand, the el34M are warmer sounding and have a pronounced low end "thump"....sorry I don't know how to describe it better.....
They don't have the absolute detail of the SED, but still display great clarity. When it comes time to buy more el34's, I will have a tough time deciding. But if you want more lows, the GT's are THE choice (at least the ones I got, are).

BTW I got "5" rating. This is in spec for Mesa (4, 5 or 6) and seem to work great.

Good luck!

 

[Old BF Shred]

GT brand power tubes must have a distortion rating between 4 and 6 to comply with Mesa's specs... other ratings will still work but won't sound as good as they will be too hot or cold... and will not last as long either...

Actually, just to clarify, if I may, there's "a little more to it".....too high a rating will cause too much idling current and cause early failure of the tubes, even visible "red-plating" before they die. Lower will not sound as good; distorted (not in a good way) and cold...not good. The idle current will be very low and the tubes may seem to "last forever" (but you'll wish they wouldn't, though).

Also, Mesa warns of voiding their warranty with tubes run outside the 4,5 or 6 range, should it result in amp damage (rare, but at least that's what they have told me).

The good news is that the GT rating is very consistent and you can trust them in your Mesa.

Good luck!

 

[rocksalt7]

I've been really happy w/ TungSols in V1, V2 and EL34B's in the power slots. First chance I get, I'm going to take BF SHRED's advice and try some GTs though...

I too, am wondering about the 1x12 speaker...I played with a really heavy drummer a couple of weeks ago and volume and tone weren't the issue . The sound was just TOO focused or something?....I'm going to try a 4x12 next time and see what happens... :twisted:

 

[Old BF Shred]

Guys, there is one thing you may all wish to consider carefully: The GTel34M's are indeed impressive and will boost the low's in the Stiletto (certainly did with mine). However, going this route means you will always have to find and buy the GT's to maintain the desired result.

If you use an EQ in the loop, you will only have to buy it once and you can then dial in any brand of tubes (assuming they fit the Mesa bias requirements, of course).

Something to think about esp. for those that don't live near a Groove Tubes dealer....... :wink:

Good luck!

 

[alie123]

hi everyone,

This time, finally a happy owner of his ACE. Finally cured my brightness issues of my ACE. Very often I thought about trading it for something else, but my waiting was worth it. Did again some tube changes (for thousand times..) and, using now and then a boost pedal in front of the amp. Yesterday my amp sound fabulous, during a jam session. just right! Still it's weird that my treble/prescence knobs are almost off, or completely off. Still there's plenty of treble in the sound. Whatever, ... Mids turned up to about noon mostly. (using a hss strat)

Now my clean is very good, (using tite clean settings) Channel 2 is incredible. Using tite clean and crunch. (moderate gain settings) Good rock sound / solo sounds.. and also very usable with different settings with my guitar volume pot. The amp seems very sensitive to tube changes.. Incredible. Last tube changes have such so much impact to the sound.. (mix of tubes (i.e.) Tung-sol 12ax7's in preamp and el34ls in poweramp ..) This beast CAN be a rock machine if you give it some time! quality pickups is also importand when playing at band level volumes.

Im convinced now, after 2 years of tweaking knobs, pedals, guitars, pickups etc. LEarned a lot, and now it's time for rock!

Thanks everyone for the imput.

 

[Riff Blister]

I love that story!

Actually, I could do a cut and paste with your last post and call it my own. The Stiletto series of amps are, like you said, very sensitive to different things you throw at them. Tubes, guitars/pickups and I would assume speakers/ cabinets all seem to make big difference. More so than any other amps I've owned anyway.
Bottom line: Don't give up. There is a good chance that "it's in there".

 

[Daion_Power]

Hi

Here is a clip of my Stiletto Ace: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2a-I93EEvU

I play on the crunch channel with settings acc. to the picture below.

/Stefan