5:50 ice-pickish. Would a speaker change be the remedie?

[GoranS]

Thinking of trying a Celestion Vintage 30. A fairly common mod for the 5:50 of what I've read.

Playing mostly Strats my sound gets kinda ice-picky even if I dial in minimum treble on the amp.
When reading on the net I've come to the conclusion that the Vintage 30 is more warm sounding than the C-90.
So, I've got two questions for you highly regarded gentlemen of this forum.

1) Would a change to Vintage 30 take away the ice-pick?

2) Does the Vintage 30 take the wattage well? It's 60W I know, but the C-90 is 90W and Mesas are LOUD. 50 Mesa Watts is said to be plenty, do they deliver more than the they say?... Are there any risk of theoretically blowing the V-30 with a 50W Express??


Maybe nOob :roll: questions to you, but anyway...

Thanks!
/Goran

 

[EtherealWidow]

Well if you like a good old fashioned crunch then the V30 would be the way to go. A lot of people, me included, aren't huge fans. In fact I hate the V30. I have a Cannabis Rex now. Hemp is dark and lovely.

 

[vbf]

I wonder if an EQ in your signal chain could tame the icepickyness? As an aside, have we eve stoppped to consider the electric guitar player's jargon? Crunch, icepicky, ceamy, buttery, fat, jangley, etc....pretty funny, actually. The funny thing is we all know what each other is talking about.

 

[Newysurfer]

Thinking of trying a Celestion Vintage 30. A fairly common mod for the 5:50 of what I've read.

Playing mostly Strats my sound gets kinda ice-picky even if I dial in minimum treble on the amp.
When reading on the net I've come to the conclusion that the Vintage 30 is more warm sounding than the C-90.
So, I've got two questions for you highly regarded gentlemen of this forum.

1) Would a change to Vintage 30 take away the ice-pick?

2) Does the Vintage 30 take the wattage well? It's 60W I know, but the C-90 is 90W and Mesas are LOUD. 50 Mesa Watts is said to be plenty, do they deliver more than the they say?... Are there any risk of theoretically blowing the V-30 with a 50W Express??


Maybe nOob :roll: questions to you, but anyway...

Thanks!
/Goran

I'd be looking at your PUPs and whether you have tone sucking pedals in the chain
I have the C90 combo & a 2x12 cab with V30's
With my Strat theres no ice picky anything no matter how I dial up the amp.
It's very warm tones all the way.
I prefer the V30's slightly but theres no more or less ice picky

 

[GoranS]

Even strait in to the amp there's an icepick.

I have Lace Hot Golds (13.2 k set) in my Strat #1, Fender Hot Noiseless in two different Strats and a Tele with Fender Noiseless pups. I really don't think they're to blame. All of them produce that icepick through the Express but not on other amps.

My pedals are: Morley CLW (modified for true bypass and low noise) => TC PolyTune => Fulltone Full-Drive 2 Mosfet => Fulltone OCD => Fulltone Catalyst => Tech 21 Boost D.L.A. Interconnections made with Gotham GAC1 cable and Switchcraft 228 plugs, and i use a T-Rex FuelTank Chameleon power supply.

All true bypass except for the Tech21 DLA which is buffered and it isn't a tone-sucker. There's no problem with the pedal-chain. Tone-sucking pedals does not normally produce the icepick phenomena.

 

[THE TUBENATOR]

I happen to like the V30.

I realize that you have a 5:50 combo so it is open back. If I recall correctly you have an Express 5:50 1x12 and you are waiting on a shipment of Mesa SPAX7's? I use a 5:50 head into a 4x12 Stiletto cab with V30's and I love it! I wouldn't worry about the fact that you are connecting a 50 watt amp to a 60 watt speaker. At the top end of the Mesa's output range you will get some awesome speaker distortion out of the V30! Distortion I can only dream about! My Stiletto cab is rated at 240 watts so I don't get anywhere near the level of producing speaker distortion.

Rather than changing out the stock speaker have you considered and extension cab?

Some things to consider apart from your amp: What pedals do you have in the signal chain? If you had a Tele I would say there's your problem but since you have a Strat the other question is what kind of wood? Strats are all over the board as far as construction materials. Are the single coil pick-ups original or afermarket? [In your recent post you answered these questions]

You really need to try the Mesa SPAX7's you have on order in all 5 pre-amp slots. Since you are waiting on the shipment anyway hold off on a speaker selection until you have new tubes to experiment with. Just a thought ~

 

[GoranS]

Yeah, you're right Tubenator. I should of course evaluate the SPAX7's first.
If they keep what they promised in the delivery notice I'll probably have them next week.
Hopefully...

Extension cab, yes... I like the idea. It places the controls in reaching position too.
For my other rig I got that, a combo + ext cab. I like the fuller sound of 2x12" and the ease of carrying one 1x12" box at the time..
On the other hand the Express 5:50 1x12" does NOT lack bottom...

Edited to add: You can read all about some of my guitars over here. I admit: I'm a tweaker...

 

[THE TUBENATOR]

What I was trying to say is I really didn't want you to spend any more money pursuing a perfect tone until you have an opportunity to evaluate all the items you have already spent money on! The SPAX7's. I love them and I swear by them! I really look forward to reading your posts once you have played your amp with nothing but SPAX7's in V1-V5.

On my previous post I didn't mean to talk down the Fender Tele. I know you own one and I was just trying to state that a twangy, (American county music sounding) high pitch, sometimes ice-picky sounding is what they are known for.

 

[GoranS]

I know you didn't...

I seldom use the Tele, but it has it's place. Them funky chords for example. :wink:

 

[J.J]

I changed out the V30 for an MC90 in my 5:25 and have done quite a bit of listening to both. I have heard people call the MC90 dark and the V30 bright and the other way around too. Peoples definition of bright and top end seem to vary somewhat. The MC90 has a more extended top end and much less pronouced top mids which is what I was looking for. Compared to the V30 the MC90 is quite a bit smother sounding with better clarity.

The V30 is quite a dirty sounding speaker to me and the resaon for that is the massive mid and high end breakup. It does sound a bit warmer to me, but it is much hotter in the upper mids. The higher the volume the dirtier it gets. For crunch sounds it works really well and has given me the best Clapton Beano sounds I have had yet.

To get a good crunch tone with the C90 I need to run the gain up a few notches and it always sounds a bit thinner and cleaner. It also has that vocal lead sound with my Les Paul (neck pickup) on the burn channel that I could never get with the V30

So in answer to the original question, if you value clean tone or verstillity don't get a V30 the MC90 is better. I have found that I can get ice pick with the CM90 in the 5:25, but can dial it out by turning down the contour and trebble. The V30 didn't have what I would call ice pick, but the upper mids were harder to control and can really grate on your ears too.

Outside the MC90 and V30 the only other speaker I have had experience with is the Texas Heat. The Texas heat is somewhat like the MC90 with good bass and general clarity, but with a more polite top end. Some of the Weber speakers from what I have heard also have a nice polite top end.

 

[GoranS]

There's so many variables... So many choices, so many opinions...

The thing is that I really like the sound and the tone the Express 5:50 produce.
It's really awesome. But now and then, especially when diggin' in, the icepick strikes.

I would like to tame that, because it's hurts the ears...

Could it be that the speaker needs to be broken in?
Purchased the amp used, but I do not think it has much playing time.

 

[Don]

I don't find my 5:50 to be ice picky at all. In fact, I find it to be a very warm sounding amp (compared to my other amps).

I have found that if I have the mids too high on the clean mode it can get a bit tight, in your face and maybe a bit harsh. I tend to run the mids at about 11:00 or less in the clean mode.

I tried an Eminence Tonker in the amp for a while and found that it had a better dirty sound than the C90, but wasn't as warm for clean rhythm and switched back to the C90.

 

[J.J]

I don't know what setting you have tried or like, but my recipe for getting rid of icepick is like this.

Start with gain at 12:00 Trebble at 11:00 mid 11:00 contour 9:00 or off and bass to taste. If it is still hurting your ears then increase the gain and deacrease the trebble.

If your amp is setup on a hard floor put a rug or mat in front of it. That will soak up some of the HF that would otherwise reflect up from the floor.

 

[GoranS]

Thanks JJ, I'm gonna try it when home this evening.

My amp lives on the floor in my man-cave when not giggin'. The floor in my cave is fully protected by a carpet.
I place the amps somewhat sideways slanted from the wall and on the wall hangs a "long haired" rug.

Since the cave doubles as my studio it is somewhat damped to minimize acoustic problems.

But you may have a point that I need to explore the tone controls a bit more...

 

[Newysurfer]

I don't find my 5:50 to be ice picky at all. In fact, I find it to be a very warm sounding amp (compared to my other amps).

I have found that if I have the mids too high on the clean mode it can get a bit tight, in your face and maybe a bit harsh. I tend to run the mids at about 11:00 or less in the clean mode.

+1
I just don't have any hint of ice-pick is all.
I've got the same strats as Goran, similar pedals.
I got both C90 and V30's - no ice pick either way :mrgreen:

 

[GoranS]

Thanks guys! Lots of good answers.

Guess I'll have to wait for my new tubes, and then learn the tone controls.
The mid control might be to blame, I have it way past noon.
The ice-pick syndrome would be in the upper mid area I suppose.

When I got it home I started out with all tone controls at noon.
Already then I thought the amp sounded too bright.
Might perhaps be a tube problem?? :?:

/G

 

[RectoStudioGuy]

V30's are have way too much mid for my taste, and coupled with a Strat will only amplify (excuse the pun) the issue.

 

[JBT7764]

ICE Pick on a 5:50???????

I apologize if I missed anything in this thread but the 5:50 is a lot of things but Ice-picky it is not.
I think of the 5:50 as being very smooth and glassy in the top-end. Have you tried running a compressor? You hear Ice pick if you just plug straight into the amp?

 

[EtherealWidow]

I've heard that the C90 can have some painful high end. My experience was a little bit different, but I was using different guitars.

 

[Newysurfer]

Thanks guys! Lots of good answers.

The mid control might be to blame, I have it way past noon.
The ice-pick syndrome would be in the upper mid area I suppose.
Might perhaps be a tube problem?? :?:

/G

I never have the mid dial on either channel past 12 noon.
Bass never goes part 11 oclock on mine either.
No ice pick with the old stock Mesa tubes or the new one's I got from http://www.dougstubes.com