2x12 Cabinet choices for the Roadster.

[Supreeth]

I'm on the lookout for good 2x12 cabs that will match well with a Roadster head. I play music that includes a lot of covers (Iron Maiden, Metallica, Queensryche, DT, Pink Floyd, Led Zep, Deep Purple etc.) and need a versatile cabinet. The ones I have in mind are

1. Roadster 2x12 cab
2. Roadking 2x12 cab
3. Rectifier 2x12 cab
4. Orange PPC212 2x12
5. Genz Benz 2x12 G-flex cab
6. Custom Avatar/Lopoline 2x12 cabs

I'm going to be playing in standard tuning pretty much all the time. I will be going straight to the amp for the most part with the exception of delay and EQ in the loop. I went to some local music stores the other day and tried out a Genz Benz 2x12 but unfortunately they did not have any of the Mesa or Orange cabs. If you play any of the above cabs with your roadster please share your experiences. If you don't and have an opinion please share it anyway Speaker recommendations are welcome too!

Thanks,
Supreeth

 

[Laskyman]

I have experience with both the G-Flex 212 and Roadster 212 cabs with a Roadster- to be honest, the Roadster cab is best for that amp IMHO. Now I have a Stiletto Deuce though, and am really enjoying the G-Flex with this head...I may end up selling my Roadster cab...

 

[73h Nils]

I like the massive breathing room I get out of the Genz Benz 2x12. The handles on the side edges are perfectly placed for carrying, too. I haven't used a Recto/Roadster 2x12 though, so I can't do a comparison. All I know is I love the way the clean channel sounds through this thing. People have told me it sounds more like a 4x12 than a 2x12, as well, because it has a HUGE sound. (Not to mention, the thing IS big; bigger than those Line6 4x12s, at any rate ).

 

[jdurso]

1. Roadster 2x12 cab - owned one for a while to pair with the Roadster and IME one of the best matches for the Roadster head

2. Roadking 2x12 cab - demo'd next to Roadster cab and was a close second at the time... i ended up going with the Roadster cab because while the RK had the open sound i liked for cleans, i found it a little woofy for high gain stuff

3. Rectifier 2x12 cab - also demo'd next to roadster cab and i found it a little too loose. Sounded great with High Gain but a little constricting for cleans which i tend to like more open and airy.

Now here are a few you didnt mention but are definitely worth the look:

1. Mills Acoustics Afterburner 2x12 - I have the 4x12 version and it is hands down the best cab i've ever played. It has an internal ported baffle (afterburner) that kills standing waves in the cab. The result is no mud on the bottom end no matter how much bass you dial in and on a Recto thats saying a lot. The thing i liked most about the Roadster cab is that for a closed back it had a very open, 3D type quality. in the Mills that same quality is there and at the same time i find the cab to have a very big yet tight sound. The best word to use is powerful.... its very clear and defined but it also has a very large sound which usually you dont find in the same cab... combine that with the 3D almost open back type quality and you have a cab like none other out there. I've heard their 2x12 version is just as good as the 4x12 version. The build quality is just as good as Mesa in terms of how solid the cab is but i find Mesa finishes to be second to none... but the Mills is built like a tank.

2. VHT Deliverence 2x12 - This cab is very much like the Roadster cab in its 3D spread... its a little looser then their famed Fat bottom cabs but i find the deliverence has more character due to having a more open sound. To me itsounds like the delieverence breathes more if that makes any sense. VHT is also one of the highest quality cabs out there so IMO they're worth their price.

3. Port City Wave 2x12 - This has a very different design in that it has front vents/ports that all for more bass response. These cabs sound very 3D due to their front vents which basically give you the response of a closed back in terms of tightness which the 3D quality of an open back due to the vents... since the vents are on the front you dont loose any vlume like you would an open back. In fact i think because of the front vents the cab sounds bigger than it is.

4. Freda 2x12 - Same concept as the Port city Wave excpet it has a different design. I find the PCW slightly tighter but the Freda is definitely louder and will make you weep with joy on cleans and midgain type stuff. High Gain can be slightly looser than a traditional closed back cab but i find, especially for the type of stuff you mentioned, it won't be too big a deal.


IMO the Mills Acoustics is the best out there but i have been converted and do have a slight bias... but you can't go wrong with any of the cabs mentioned. Mesa and VHT are still some of my favorite cabs... if i could own them all be sure i would.

 

[Robusto]

I prefered the Recto cab to the Roadster cab...

you might do a search on this topic. there is a lot of input on the forum already.

and of course, jdurso always is a good source!

 

[Elixir]

I just sold my Recto 2x12 that was paired with my Roadster. Personally, I think a 2x12 sounds best with an open back so stay away from the closed unless you plan on eventually pairing it with another 2x12.

 

[ibanez4life SZ!]

I second the Mills. It's hard to believe that a cab can make such a difference, but I took the plunge. I sold 2 Mesa 4x12s for one Mills 4x12, and my tone is better than it ever has been!

 

[jdurso]

I second the Mills. It's hard to believe that a cab can make such a difference, but I took the plunge. I sold 2 Mesa 4x12s for one Mills 4x12, and my tone is better than it ever has been!

The cab is definitely one of the most overlooked place in terms of improving or getting a certain tone.

I had many discussions with David Mills... I come from an engineering background and when i took a look inside the Mills cab lots of things just clicked in my head as far as why the afterburner baffle is so effective. What he pointed out that never dawned on me is that the design of the closed back guitar cabinet conceptually hasn't changed much in the last 50 years or so. There are always differences in bracings and baffles so as to reduce vibrations but standing waves and speakers being choked due to the consitricted air flow is always the same. Some of the ported and vented cabs provide a break from the norm but have their downsides as well. The Mills cab is the first cab i've seen that really took a simple, very unique idea that is the first ture change to a fully enclosed back cab since the dawn of the closed back cab. Eliminating the standing waves is what makes this cab so efficient in moving air and is why the bottom end is so big yet tight.

Now i'm not saying this is going to be the cab for everyone... but consider the fact that Dave had the Recto in mind when he was designing/building the afterburner cabs, makes it as good a match to a Mesa as a Mesa cab. Dave Mills is a top notch guy and really enjoys talking about his product and stands behind it 100%... that means he'll do just about anything to make his customers and supporters satisfied.

 

[Supreeth]

Thank you for all your replies so far and for sharing your knowledge. These responses are invaluable because in addition to giving your opinions, you're making me want to go out and try many different cabs before making a choice (which I will). Ultimately it all boils down to the cab my ears will perceive to have great all round tone, and now I have a bunch of different options to try out.

Today I tried a Road King 2x12 cab, and I took my Roadster head and my favorite guitar (EBMM John Petrucci 6) along. I loved the cleans, but the disto tones were too woofy as jdurso so aptly put it. I also tried the Orange PPC212 which is a great cab all-round but there was something (The secret x-factor I guess) missing. I was in an isolation room and didn't have to worry about ambient sounds getting in the way like in GC. I tried the Genz Benz Flex 2x12 again today, and it didn't cut it in terms of the disto tone (too much flub). I'm still waiting to try out a Roadster and Recto cabs from the list of the cabs I'd originally posted.

Jdurso, thank you for your input on the Mills, Freda, PCW, and VHT cabs. I will definitely look into them. I'm planning to call the Mills' folks on Monday during lunch hour and talk to them. The PCW cabs have a unique look to them for sure!!

Aside from cabs, I've also been researching different tube options. The KT77 and 6V6 option from Eurotubes sounds very attractive to me. It seems like the middle ground between the 6L6 and the EL34s. have any of you tried this combination before? If so I would love to hear your experiences with the sound they put out.

Thanks again for all the responses!

cheers,
Supreeth

 

[Robusto]

Again, I love my recto cab, but I am very interested in what Mills has to say about thier 2x12.

Keep us posted.

 

[thunda1216]

For many years I used an *old* Peavey 4x12 cab loaded with Eminence V12's with my Heartbreaker. Good tone, great bass response, LOUD! nNpeaker breakup unless I pushed the cab *really* hard (each speaker is rated at 120 watts...). Last summer I bought a Crate V212b cab and replaced the speakers with Eminence Governors. Wow! Great cleans, a great bass response, and nice speaker breakup when presented with overdrive distortion. Not to mention it will now fit in almost any sized automobile trunk and is lots less to lug around.

I guess my point is, you don't have to settle for commercially available cabs for great tone. (Many times the major manufacturers will use the least costly components available - sometimes this is not a bad thing like in Fenders amps' heydays...) Listen to as many different speakers as you can until you find what suits you. To me, it's not the visual appeal but the sound.

just my $.02

ty

 

[jdurso]

Thank you for all your replies so far and for sharing your knowledge. These responses are invaluable because in addition to giving your opinions, you're making me want to go out and try many different cabs before making a choice (which I will). Ultimately it all boils down to the cab my ears will perceive to have great all round tone, and now I have a bunch of different options to try out.

Today I tried a Road King 2x12 cab, and I took my Roadster head and my favorite guitar (EBMM John Petrucci 6) along. I loved the cleans, but the disto tones were too woofy as jdurso so aptly put it. I also tried the Orange PPC212 which is a great cab all-round but there was something (The secret x-factor I guess) missing. I was in an isolation room and didn't have to worry about ambient sounds getting in the way like in GC. I tried the Genz Benz Flex 2x12 again today, and it didn't cut it in terms of the disto tone (too much flub). I'm still waiting to try out a Roadster and Recto cabs from the list of the cabs I'd originally posted.

Jdurso, thank you for your input on the Mills, Freda, PCW, and VHT cabs. I will definitely look into them. I'm planning to call the Mills' folks on Monday during lunch hour and talk to them. The PCW cabs have a unique look to them for sure!!

Aside from cabs, I've also been researching different tube options. The KT77 and 6V6 option from Eurotubes sounds very attractive to me. It seems like the middle ground between the 6L6 and the EL34s. have any of you tried this combination before? If so I would love to hear your experiences with the sound they put out.

Thanks again for all the responses!

cheers,
Supreeth

No problem Supreeth thats what we're here for. Boards like this should be sharing the knowledge and i have learned a lot of what i know through many of the great folks here. Mike (Fixxer6671) was the one that turned me on to Mills about 8 months ago... at that point i was running my favorite cab setup up to that point (Roadster 2x12 and Basson 2x12)... the balance i had with that cab/speaker combo was perfect for what i do BUT i was lacking the punch, power and headroom of a 4x12. I was almost dead set on a VHT Deliverance 4x12 but i found a Mills at the right price and pulled the trigger... glad i did because they're not easy to find at stores (actually you cant anymore as Dave wont deal with dealers) and since they came onto the fold were priced like a boutique cab ($1200+) they were hard to find on the used market.

No matter what direction you go in terms of a cab just trust your ears and dont buy into the hype you hear about certain speakers or certain cab designs (front loaded vs rear loaded)... speakers sound different in every cab and with every head and the only way in my experience to find that right "mojo" is to just try as many as you can and always try and demo them with an amp/guitar as similar to the ones you have as you can. I bought a Diezel cab which sounded great with a Diezel and old blackface Recto but didnt translate as well with my roadster. I think everyone here with their vast experiences with just about any gear you can think of will tell you at the end of the day that no matter how much advice boards like this can offer, the true judge should be your ears and your wallet. Your ears know what you like and your wallet deligates whats reasonable for your budget... you dont need to break the bank to get great tone. So trust your ears... but you knew that because your a Mesa user :wink:

BTW, I run the JJ KT77s and GZ34 Vacuum tubes. I really dig them in the Roadster. The KT77s give you a very nice 6L6/el34 hybrid in terms of your power section and the GZ34s are a lot more powerful and smoother than the stock Mesa 5U4Gs. Also I have found you'll find a bigger tone change in changing your preamp tubes.. but that is a much bigger commitment IMO especially for the ones (like me) that go the NOS route.

 

[Supreeth]

I spent a good part of Sunday and Monday (after work) trying out a bunch of cabs again. I did not get a chance to talk with Dave Mills since a meeting came up at lunch hour yesterday. However, I did a side by side test (A/B) of the following cabinets

1. Orange PPC212
2. Mesa Rectifier 2x12

I tried the Orange again because when I tried it out on Saturday I had been trying out cabs for a while and my ears were a little tired from all the concentration. So I thought I did not give the cab a fair test score. The Orange sounded very full and airy on the clean tones, and the high gain tones were great too. Good tight bass during palm muting, and clear sounding leads with no brittleness in the high end even when playing on the bridge pickup. Very good overall cab!!

Onto the Recto cab. This one sounded a little darker on the clean channel, and for me that is not a bad thing at all. I had to bump up the presence and mids a little bit to get the same sound that I got through the Orange. I found the bass response very tight and not boomy at all for palm muted chugs, and the leads were very clear sounding as well. Very good overall cab again.

I wound up picking the Recto 2x12.

This is because the cab flat out beat the Orange in one critical aspect. My guitar has a sweet spot at fret 11 on the G string and the Recto cab gave me that sweet singing feedback of notes an octave higher and also an octave+5th higher when I turned it up and just sustained a single note on that fret. The Orange was good too, but the Recto cab flat out made the hair on the back of my neck stand up when I sustained the F# note I mentioned!! That's all I needed

The bonus here is that the Recto cab cost me about $50 less than the Orange, comes with casters, and is lighter than the Orange cab!! I am very happy with my setup at home now. I mainly use channel 1 in tweed mode and channel 3 in vintage mode. My settings (for the curious out there) are

Channel 1 (100W, Recto tracking):

Master - 12:00
Presence - 11:30
Bass - 11:00
Mid - 11:30 (This is for arppeggios. For strumming I use the mids at 9:00. All other settings are the same)
Treble - 1:30
Gain - 10:00

Channel 3: (50W, diode tracking - Rhythms on bridge pickup, leads on neck pickup)

Master - 10:30
Presence - 2:00
Bass - 10:00
Mid - 3:00
Treble - 2:00
Gain - 2:00

Thanks again for all your responses. I really appreciate all the advice. I have learned a lot from this forum as well, and hope to share the knowledge wherever I can

cheers,
Supreeth

 

[Supreeth]

No matter what direction you go in terms of a cab just trust your ears and dont buy into the hype you hear about certain speakers or certain cab designs (front loaded vs rear loaded)... speakers sound different in every cab and with every head and the only way in my experience to find that right "mojo" is to just try as many as you can and always try and demo them with an amp/guitar as similar to the ones you have as you can. I bought a Diezel cab which sounded great with a Diezel and old blackface Recto but didnt translate as well with my roadster. I think everyone here with their vast experiences with just about any gear you can think of will tell you at the end of the day that no matter how much advice boards like this can offer, the true judge should be your ears and your wallet. Your ears know what you like and your wallet deligates whats reasonable for your budget... you dont need to break the bank to get great tone.

Truer words have not been spoken. This advice should be a sticky for every musician searching for their sound!

BTW, I run the JJ KT77s and GZ34 Vacuum tubes. I really dig them in the Roadster. The KT77s give you a very nice 6L6/el34 hybrid in terms of your power section and the GZ34s are a lot more powerful and smoother than the stock Mesa 5U4Gs. Also I have found you'll find a bigger tone change in changing your preamp tubes.. but that is a much bigger commitment IMO especially for the ones (like me) that go the NOS route.

I'm planning to talk with Bob at Eurotubes for his recommendations and will also try to see if I can take my amp there to try out different tube combinations if they are kind enough to let me do that (Eurotubes is local for me and a 30 minute drive away). I will keep everyone posted on my tube experiments as well.

My next experiment will be to try connecting my Boss GT-10 with the 4 cable method to the Roadster just for kicks :-D Seriously though, I got my Roadster just 10 days back in a trade and I had already taken a huge leap of faith on a Mark V head in January after saving up for a new amp. They say it will be here mid- late june, and I really want to get to know the Roadster well so that I can try it out side by side with the Mark V. I think the 2x12 Recto cab will sound great with the Mark V as well!!

BTW jdurso, I checked out your posting on JP's Mark V settings. Very cool indeed that you got to meet the man himself and pick his brains!!

cheers,
Supreeth

 

[screamingdaisy]

One thing I've always had trouble with when demoing new cabs and combos is the speakers. V30s (and most other speakers) generally sound like crap (stiff, brittle, harsh, whatever you want to call it) when new, so you never really get to know the true character of the cab until you get 30 to 40 hours of hard play time on it. It's why I don't like to judge cabs in the store, nor amps for that matter. However it's not a perfect world, and sometimes you have no choice and just have to go with what's available, in which case you do what you can and hope for the best.

That said, everything I've read about the Recto 2x12 has been good. It doesn't seem to get the bad rap that the Recto 4x12 has when it comes to being boomy, most people simply referring to it as big sounding. Congrats on picking up a great sounding cab... if you think you like it now, you'll love it once you get another 30 hours or more.

 

[Supreeth]

Again, I love my recto cab, but I am very interested in what Mills has to say about thier 2x12.

Keep us posted.

I think I'll be singing praises of the Recto cab from now too :-D Since I'm happy with the Recto cab I'll be putting the Mills' enquiries on hold. If I do end up entertaining the idea of getting another cab, Dave Mills will be getting my first phone call.

 

[Supreeth]

One thing I've always had trouble with when demoing new cabs and combos is the speakers. V30s (and most other speakers) generally sound like crap (stiff, brittle, harsh, whatever you want to call it) when new, so you never really get to know the true character of the cab until you get 30 to 40 hours of hard play time on it. It's why I don't like to judge cabs in the store, nor amps for that matter. However it's not a perfect world, and sometimes you have no choice and just have to go with what's available, in which case you do what you can and hope for the best.

That said, everything I've read about the Recto 2x12 has been good. It doesn't seem to get the bad rap that the Recto 4x12 has when it comes to being boomy, most people simply referring to it as big sounding. Congrats on picking up a great sounding cab... if you think you like it now, you'll love it once you get another 30 hours or more.

Thanks, screamingdaisy. I can't wait to get the speakers broken in!! There was a 4x12 recto cab in the store and I tried it out even though I knew I would not purchase it (Money and space reasons. I live in an apartment and don't have a truck to cart it around). The cab was indeed very boomy for my tastes and I just did not like the way the cleans sounded through it as well!

 

[Robusto]

Again, I love my recto cab, but I am very interested in what Mills has to say about thier 2x12.

Keep us posted.

I think I'll be singing praises of the Recto cab from now too :-D Since I'm happy with the Recto cab I'll be putting the Mills' enquiries on hold. If I do end up entertaining the idea of getting another cab, Dave Mills will be getting my first phone call.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

See! You just should have listened to the wise Robusto, and you could have saved yourself tons of time!!!!!

(but trying out new stuff is half the fun!!!!!!).

But Seriously, I am stoked for ya, as you spend time tweaking and that cab breaks in a bit, you will only be happier!

Congrats on a great Choice. Glad you are pleased with the Cab!!!!!!!

 

[vitor gracie]

Supreeth wrote: Seriously though, I got my Roadster just 10 days back in a trade...

GREAT SELLER ALERT!
Supreeth and I traded gear. He has my beautiful Roadster Head and I got his Triaxis with a 20/20 power amp. I can't say enough about the amount of effort he put in communicating effectively before, during and after the trade. The boxes where packed like a pro and 2nd day shipped. The units sound incredible and have very very limited wear and tear on them (smallest amount of rack rash, the Triaxis has been around for a while ya know...) Overall I would HIGHLY recommend him as a seller on this board and trust this board over Ebay any day.

The only reason (and Supreeth is well aware of this) I traded was out of nesessity for a national band that will require me to do fly outs a lot and take parts of my gear on a plane. As soon as the deal generates enough cash, I will buy a brand new Roadster with out a doubt.

Supreeth you're a stand up guy and I give you all my respect and wish you luck with your new set up. Thanks bro... YOU DA MAN! :mrgreen:

 

[Supreeth]

Supreeth wrote: Seriously though, I got my Roadster just 10 days back in a trade...

GREAT SELLER ALERT!
Supreeth and I traded gear. He has my beautiful Roadster Head and I got his Triaxis with a 20/20 power amp. I can't say enough about the amount of effort he put in communicating effectively before, during and after the trade. The boxes where packed like a pro and 2nd day shipped. The units sound incredible and have very very limited wear and tear on them (smallest amount of rack rash, the Triaxis has been around for a while ya know...) Overall I would HIGHLY recommend him as a seller on this board and trust this board over Ebay any day.

The only reason (and Supreeth is well aware of this) I traded was out of nesessity for a national band that will require me to do fly outs a lot and take parts of my gear on a plane. As soon as the deal generates enough cash, I will buy a brand new Roadster with out a doubt.

Supreeth you're a stand up guy and I give you all my respect and wish you luck with your new set up. Thanks bro... YOU DA MAN! :mrgreen:

Hey Def! Thanks for the kind words man. The same goes for you Bro. This was the most pleasant trade I've ever made and what's best is that both of us were smiling at the end of it and pleased with what we'd each got from the trade. I couldn't have hoped for a better trade partner. I wish you all the best with your new band and hope we can hear some music from you! I hope you're having a great time with the Triaxis and 20/20. I am *very* pleased with the Roadster and can't stop playing it

Talking about packing, I thought my packing was nothing compared to what Def did with packing up the Roadster. It was seriously packed well enough to send to a DMZ, and packed well enough that if the box fell into water the Roadster still wouldn't get wet. It was 2nd day shipped too! It took me about 25 minutes to just unpack it all the while going "Maybe I can see the amp after this layer comes off", and I needed two very large trash bags to dump the packing material into :lol: Great job bro! The amp itself was in impeccable condition and sounded great from the get-go (Once I realized that the little send level knob was sitting all nice and pretty at 7:00 when I was scratching my head and wondering why the volume was so low :lol: )

In all seriousness, I would highly recommend Defraim as a seller on this board as well. He's a very stand up guy, great communicator, very knowledgeable about gear, and great fun to talk gear and music with. Great person overall!! Many, many kudos to him!

Def, give me a holler if you're playing in the Pacific Northwest anytime bro and have loads of fun with your new gig and rig!