2c++ compared to a MK3++????

[parntz145]

Has anyone ever compared the two of them? I was wondering what the differences are? Which did you like better and why?

 

[JOEY B.]

Has anyone ever compared the two of them? I was wondering what the differences are? Which did you like better and why?

By the time that you put that much gain into play, tone is out the window. One of them will have an extra channel, and that is all. If anyone needs any more gain than a stock Mark III, they need to start checking cables and/or preamp tubes.

 

[LesPaul70]

By the time that you put that much gain into play, tone is out the window. One of them will have an extra channel, and that is all.

While in general I will agree, the amount of gain will take something away from the intrinsic tone of the amp, I think the above is something of an oversimplification. At the end of the day, it's just a clean volume boost. A IIc+ will still sound like a IIc+, and a III like a III.

But no, I haven't had a chance to actually compare the two (IIc++ vs III++).

 

[fretout]

I've never tried these two amps side by side, so I can't really comment on them. They're not too common.

I agree with the post above though. If you need more gain than what a Stock Mark III puts out (I have a III+ Coliseum BTW), something isn't quite right.

If you need some extra gain on your lead channel on a III, pull your "Rhythm 2" knob WITH your "Rhythm 3" knob for some extra gain.

 

[psychodave]

Everyone seems to be focusing on the gain, but the ++ mod has a different voicing as well. The lower mids are enhanced. To me, that is a bigger benefit.

 

[themisfit138]

Why would there be a III++ mod. My C++ and blue stripe are very similar in tone. The C++ being smoother with a little more bottom end.

 

[ryjan]

Gotta love it when a guy asks if anyone has ever compared two amps before and every response is someone telling him what he should or shouldn't need.

 

[psychodave]

Why would there be a III++ mod. My C++ and blue stripe are very similar in tone. The C++ being smoother with a little more bottom end.

Interesting. My 2C++ has a lot more gain than my blue strip coliseum. Of course the Coli has a ton more bottom end :lol:

 

[themisfit138]

Why would there be a III++ mod. My C++ and blue stripe are very similar in tone. The C++ being smoother with a little more bottom end.

Interesting. My 2C++ has a lot more gain than my blue strip coliseum. Of course the Coli has a ton more bottom end :lol:

Well, that is different I just have a normal Blue stripe. :lol:

 

[JOEY B.]

I'll say it again, just to clarify things. If you need more gain than a Mark III with its Lead Drive on 10, there is a problem. If you can't adjust the voicing to your liking with the graphic EQ and Presence control, there is a problem. Check your speakers????

 

[parntz145]

I'll say it again, just to clarify things. If you need more gain than a Mark III with its Lead Drive on 10, there is a problem. If you can't adjust the voicing to your liking with the graphic EQ and Presence control, there is a problem. Check your speakers????

Its not a matter of more gain. I don't need more gain at all. The mod just doesn't increase the gain but gives it a different voicing. Im asking if anyone has heard the to side by side?

 

[parntz145]

Gotta love it when a guy asks if anyone has ever compared two amps before and every response is someone telling him what he should or shouldn't need.

LOL.. I know. The mod voices the gain differently.

 

[Audiokill]

Does the ++ mod really add that much more gain? My C++ definitely lives in the lower mids, but I wouldn't describe it as super gainy. Not at all. Even with the gain at 8 and drive at 6, the lead channel still cleans up to a sparkly, almost pristine clean tone when rolling back the neck pickup volume to about 1 1/2. It's what I use live; just flip the pickup selector rather than switch channels. On the other hand, my Red Stripe sounds much more saturated and doesn't clean up nearly as well. Even my Triaxis in C+ mode is positively drowning in gain compared to my C++. We are all talking about the Mike Bendinelli ++ mod and NOT the home ++ mod with the pull mid boost, right?

I for one would be quite interested in experiencing what a III++ would sound like. I agree that the III does not need more gain, but a voicing that involves increased lower mids might be pleasing to the ear.

 

[themisfit138]

Does the ++ mod really add that much more gain? My C++ definitely lives in the lower mids, but I wouldn't describe it as super gainy. Not at all. Even with the gain at 8 and drive at 6, the lead channel still cleans up to a sparkly, almost pristine clean tone when rolling back the neck pickup volume to about 1 1/2. It's what I use live; just flip the pickup selector rather than switch channels. On the other hand, my Red Stripe sounds much more saturated and doesn't clean up nearly as well. Even my Triaxis in C+ mode is positively drowning in gain compared to my C++. We are all talking about the Mike Bendinelli ++ mod and NOT the home ++ mod with the pull mid boost, right?

I for one would be quite interested in experiencing what a III++ would sound like. I agree that the III does not need more gain, but a voicing that involves increased lower mids might be pleasing to the ear.

I just sent my C+ back to Mike Bendinelli earlier this year to have the C++ mod done. It is a lot more lower mids focused, but like you said it is just a little bit more gain than a normal C+. The Blue stripe still has more gain then the C++, and like I stated before the blue stripe is very close in tone to the C++, I don't know why you would need the ++ mod on a Mark III. I had a III+ and it took away a lot of gain and aggression, in my opinion the best parts of the Mark III.

 

[plr500]

I have never heard of MK III ++, what is it? I think the III+ mod comparison to the C+ is an interesting question, and has been expounded on before. But my take on it that a modified mk 3 will never quite match the feel, response and openness of the C+ due to the difference in components especially the transformers. I also have a 2c++ (one of the original 12 built on the factory line and not modified later) and believe that amp offers something very special in terms of switchable additional available drive in either channel.

 

[Audiokill]

I just sent my C+ back to Mike Bendinelli earlier this year to have the C++ mod done. It is a lot more lower mids focused, but like you said it is just a little bit more gain than a normal C+. The Blue stripe still has more gain then the C++, and like I stated before the blue stripe is very close in tone to the C++, I don't know why you would need the ++ mod on a Mark III. I had a III+ and it took away a lot of gain and aggression, in my opinion the best parts of the Mark III.

I hear you there. The III+ mod doesn't seem like something I'd want, either. But I would think the ++ mod can be done without turning it into a III+. Also, I think the III++ mod is meant to simply alter the Mark III's voicing in its own right and not to necessarily mimic a C++. Check this thread out if you haven't already; http://forum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=58557
That guy seems quite pleased with the results. He does mention though that the ++ made his blue stripe smoother; that it has less grit. As to whether that means less aggression or not, I don't know.

 

[fretout]

Why would there be a III++ mod. My C++ and blue stripe are very similar in tone. The C++ being smoother with a little more bottom end.

Interesting. My 2C++ has a lot more gain than my blue strip coliseum. Of course the Coli has a ton more bottom end :lol:

With the III++ mod, the tone shifts quite a bit. Even with the III+ mod, the tone becomes quite a bit darker, but it's not anything that can't be addressed by turning your presence control. I have a Coliseum, and I notice a lot more bass, balls, and punch in the tone compared to a standard "100watt" Mark III. Honestly, I don't like it very much, but it gives me some different tones to record with, so for now, it stays.

As far as what I prefer, I like the standard Mark III gain better. It's not as rounded as the "+" or "++" or "Hetfield" mods. It's hard to describe, but there's also some immediacy missing from the attack of the standard Mark III amps. I can't discern if it's just because of the darker tone, but it feels less aggressive, and more suited for Rhythm playing.

Now, to describe the gain. I always try to use an analogy to describe gain, so stay with me here.

Gain to be is like the dashed yellow line on the highways. The yellow line represents the gain that you hear. When you drive slow, it's like running a stomp box (like a Boss SD-1 or a Boss Metal Zone) on your clean channel. It's really gritty, and you can hear how "boxy" the gain is.

As you drive faster, let's say 55MPH (increasing drive, get it?), the lines appear to get closer together, and the spaces are blurred. This is like a roaring Marshall. It's much more "smooth" and less "boxy", but the gain is higher than the stompboxes.

As you drive 100MPH, the lines get even more blurred together, and you can barely see the separation from one lane stripe to the next. This is like a Mark III

Now, you are speeding along at 198MPH. This is like a Mark III++. The lane stripes appear to be one solid stripe, but they aren't, it's just the gain structure that makes it seem this way.

So, this is the best way to visualize the Mark III++ mod. It increases your gain, but almost to a point where it loses its aggression because it's almost so much gain, it mashes it all together to where it's approaching a solid (clean) tone.

If you want aggression and bite, the stock Mark III will be more than plenty. If you want it darker, use the sliders or adjust your presence.

 

[gts]

Nice "visual" description of gain fretout. I like it!

 

[fretout]

Nice "visual" description of gain fretout. I like it!

Thank you sir!!!

 

[psychodave]

^^ Nice example, but I don't agree with it. :wink: