2c++ compared to a MK3++????

[JimAnsell]

mike b must laugh all the way to the bank at some of you guys.

 

[Audiokill]

My Mark III coliseum is a III++ and am very happy with it. The voicing is what I really love, but the added gain is very fun a well (as most know, it's switchable with the mid pot).

On the contrary, my understanding is that the ++ mod (ones done by Mesa, at least) is not switchable - no mid pull to toggle between + and ++ modes or anything like that. I've been very curious about switchable ++ amps like yours for a long time though and would really like to know more about them; e.g. Who performs the mod? And how it differs from non-switchable Mike Bendinelli modded C++ amps like mine?

...Wait a minute, if your ++ is a Mark III that is switchable with the mid knob, then what happens to your Rhythm 2 channel??? Now I'm really curious.

mike b must laugh all the way to the bank at some of you guys.

Hey, don't be jealous of my boogie. 8)
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pGpYou-RuPI

 

[psychodave]

My Mark III coliseum is a III++ and am very happy with it. The voicing is what I really love, but the added gain is very fun a well (as most know, it's switchable with the mid pot).

On the contrary, my understanding is that the ++ mod (ones done by Mesa, at least) is not switchable - no mid pull to toggle between + and ++ modes or anything like that. I've been very curious about switchable ++ amps like yours for a long time though and would really like to know more about them; e.g. Who performs the mod? And how it differs from non-switchable Mike Bendinelli modded C++ amps like mine?

...Wait a minute, if your ++ is a Mark III that is switchable with the mid knob, then what happens to your Rhythm 2 channel??? Now I'm really curious.

mike b must laugh all the way to the bank at some of you guys.

Hey, don't be jealous of my boogie. 8)
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pGpYou-RuPI

Both of my ++ mods were done by Mike B at Boogie.

My Mark III++ coliseum has the ++ mod switchable with the mid pot. On the lead channel, with the mid switch pushed in, the amp is normal. Pull it out and you get the added gain. On the Rhythm channel with the mid pot pulled, the amp is like a normal Mark III and there is no noticeable gain changes (I wish it added more gain to the rhythm channel). The amp is very versatile.

Regarding my 2C++... the ++ mod is on all of the time and the amp is a total aggressive monster. It does sound a little more vintage compared to the Mark III.

Mike B could be laughing...I know I'm very happy with his excellent service as well as great conversations. He's a really cool guy.

 

[GuitarPlayer]

Mike B explained to me how my c++ was built in 1985 and it basically just got fit with an extra channel which is under the mid pot. I don't really use it cause I prefer the regular c+ crunch sound. The mark III chanell under the mid sounds better than the one on a real mark III to me and I guess it because the 105 transformer is so amazing. I got rid of a mark III amp I had cause I hated I always went back to the IIc+ cause even with the gain up on 10 every note has amazing definition. I even sold the boogie mark V after I got the c++ lol. Soon to have a second IIc to mod and run in stereo ;-)

 

[adonixx]

Mike B explained to me how my c++ was built in 1985 and it basically just got fit with an extra channel which is under the mid pot. I don't really use it cause I prefer the regular c+ crunch sound. The mark III chanell under the mid sounds better than the one on a real mark III to me and I guess it because the 105 transformer is so amazing. I got rid of a mark III amp I had cause I hated I always went back to the IIc+ cause even with the gain up on 10 every note has amazing definition. I even sold the boogie mark V after I got the c++ lol. Soon to have a second IIc to mod and run in stereo ;-)

There are MK IIIs with 105 PT, and channel 2 sounds the same as on other MK IIIs.

 

[GuitarPlayer]

mike b must laugh all the way to the bank at some of you guys.

lol

 

[GuitarPlayer]

Mike B explained to me how my c++ was built in 1985 and it basically just got fit with an extra channel which is under the mid pot. I don't really use it cause I prefer the regular c+ crunch sound. The mark III chanell under the mid sounds better than the one on a real mark III to me and I guess it because the 105 transformer is so amazing. I got rid of a mark III amp I had cause I hated I always went back to the IIc+ cause even with the gain up on 10 every note has amazing definition. I even sold the boogie mark V after I got the c++ lol. Soon to have a second IIc to mod and run in stereo ;-)

There are MK IIIs with 105 PT, and channel 2 sounds the same as on other MK IIIs.

I don't know, but I didn't like a mark III black dot I had, I do want to find a early mark IV cause I hear those are amazing.

 

[themisfit138]

I don't know, but I didn't like a mark III black dot I had, I do want to find a early mark IV cause I hear those are amazing.

I have an early Mark IV and have played it beside a Mark IV rev B. I couldn't really tell any difference, like you can on the Mark III stripes.

 

[loylo69]

I made a lot of researchs on the internet, and I can make some strong assumptions on what is the IIC++ mod. But I emphasize that these are my assumptions as I couldn't find any official documentation of this mod.

First, as some eminent members of this board have already stated it, all the IIC+ mods, between vol1.1 mod, Hetfiel mod, IIC++, etc., are different kind of mods and cause confusion.

It is well known that all Mark amps are an evolution in "architecture" of the previous version, whether it is a big evoution or not: at a very basic level, IIC+ is a IIC with a different effect loop placement, III is a IIC+ with R2 channel, IV is a III with added gain and treble controls for R2 channel...

So basically, my assumption is that the IIC++ is a mod of the IIC+ that has later been democratized by Mike B during the Mark III production and led to the R2 channel. The R2 channel of the Mark III is basically the R1 channel with added gain in 2 parts of the circuit:
1. by adding a 2M2 and 20pf over the existing 3.3M 10/20pf (It may differ per the different stripe versions of the Mark III, on the Mark IV there is even a shunt wire over the existing 3.3M 20pf).
2. by adding a bypass cap on V2A cathode (470n on the MarK III red stripe, but it can go higher, 2.2uf for a midrange boost or 10uf - 15uf for thicker gain, as it is the case on the Mark IV).

So, before making these 2 circuit mods switchable on the Mark III, as an independent channel, i think Mike B proposed it to IIC+ users as permanent mod for the lead channel, which also affect the clean channel. At a certain point, he may even have proposed, as a factory mod, to make it switchable on the IIC+ with the mid pot push/pull, just as it is working on the Mark III.

It seems to me that Boogiebabies have a precise therory about this mod, or he may have even shared this with Mike B. I found a lot of indications in his posts, and I take this opportunity to thank him for all the precious informations he shares with us on this board.

 

[loylo69]

Well, my assumptions might be of little interest to anybody (maybe because of my bad english!), but this new post of Authorized Boogie (thanks to him) confirms some of them, and is a definitive information that some factory IIC++ came with the mid pull. :wink:
http://www.grailtone.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=49577#p469326