yet another "help me pick an amp" thread

[rocknroll9225]

Im looking into getting a mesa amp, because, well, to be completely honest theyre the best amps ever made. I play and listen to just about every style from classical to thrash metal, but at heart im mostly a rock/metal guy. my favorite bands are avenged sevenfold and dream theater, to give you some idea of the sound im going for. and im more of a lead player, but great rhythm tone is just as important to me. I currently own a Marshall JVM410H and a 1960A 4x12, and i honestly believe its a pretty awesome amp, but i think im more of a mesa guy. the JVM just doesnt get that "balls to the wall" distortion that a boogie can get. that combined with the shitty build quality of the JVM has converted me. the idea of not having to rebias my amp after every re-tube is another cool feature. anyways im trying to decide between the 2010 reborn dual rectifier, the mark v, and the road king. Ive gone to some local stores and ive been able to try all 3 next to each other, all through rectifier (oversized, not stiletto) cabs, so i think it was a fair assessment of each amp and how they stacked up against each other. i know just about all there is to know about these 3, but i, for the life of me, cannot decide which to get. in a perfect world, id just buy all 3. but i dont have that much money.

ill start with the dual rec. it sounded just as i expected to. like a dual rectifier. aggressive, huge, kinda fizzy, with lots o' boomy bass. and just to clarify i didnt mean any of those words in a negative sense. i loved the way it sounds. great clean, too. squeaky clean. only things id be nervous about with this amp:
- no fat clean mode. i really like this mode on the other mesa's, and im into more of a full bodied clean tone so im not sure how well this would work for me.
- no reverb. i really only use reverb on my clean and lead sounds, but reverb adds a lot of fullness to both of those.
i love the bottom end of the rectifiers, but ive found that it can get in the way when youre trying to play more articulate riffs. that and ive heard that the huge lows of the rectifiers dont exactly work the greatest in a mix. im also curious to try a dual rec with a tube screamer as ive heard that they tighten up the lows. any comments on that are welcome.

next, the road king. this is the amp that ive been most seriously considering, but lately ive been wondering if i would really use all the extra features and if they are worth the money. the fat clean mode and the reverb are big for me. that helps a lot with clean and lead tones. the tweed and brit modes were nice, but i have a really hard time imagining myself using them very often. theyd no doubt be nice to have, but i just dont know how necessary theyd be. id be playing mostly rock/metal, so i dont think the tweed mode is absolutely necessary. and the brit mode was good, but not great. i personally preferred the crunch mode on the mark v. and if i really needed marshally crunch id just use my JVM. then theres the cab switching system, which is completely unnecessary for me. i cant really afford two cabs anyway, not to mention the pain in the *** it would be to haul around another cab. i could get the road king cab, but then theres the hassle of micing both speakers at shows. its a good feature for pros that can afford cabs and have roadies to haul around their ****, but not so much for the rest of us. the feature i was most excited about was the progressive linkage. but when i went to try the amp out, i liked the 6L6's better. for just about everything, besides the brit mode. the EL34's sounded smoother to my ears, and didnt bite as much. compared to the 6L6's, they just sounded kinda dull. correct me if youve had different experiences.
the road king was in general, a little less aggressive than the regular dual. it was slightly darker, which i guess is better for solos, and felt a little bass-ier. do you guys prefer the aggressiveness of the dual or smoothness of the road king?

and finally, the Mark V. there werent a lot of things i didnt like about this amp. the cleans were awesome, but not quite as full sounding as the road king's cleans. channel 2=delicious. not much else to say. my favorite setting on channel 3 was in the MK IV mode, with a moderate V on the sliders. i gotta say, that got pretty **** close to the dream tone i hear in my head. the extreme setting was good, but sounded a little harsh to my ears on the higher wattage settings. maybe i just didnt have enough time to get to know it well enough. the extreme mode did however put quite a bit of bass in the sound, but it was still articulate. the mark v's high gain channels in general sound a little thin compared to the rectos just because they dont have the ridiculous bottom end, but i guess its supposed to be much better for playing in a mix. and as always, the mark lead tones were awesome.

i just figured id share my thoughts on these amps and id love to hear your opinions as to which one you think i should get. and if i said anything stupid/wrong go ahead and correct me.

 

[iceman]

Honestly, maybe you should decide between a roadster and a mark v. The roadster has the fat clean and reverb but not the other stuff you think you wouldn't use. However you would still be comparing apples to oranges. I have a roadster and would also like to have a mark v . If I had the mark v I'd still would want roadster

 

[YellowJacket]

The Roadster sounds like a great option for you. Got the extra clean channels, the brit mode, but none of this cab switching nonsense or progressive linkage. Also, it doesn't cost two arms and a leg like a Road King II.

Ok, I'll post an opinion. **I** don't think the Mesa Boogie oversized Rectocabs are the best option for the Recto series heads. Plenty of people do and they are completely happy - these are great cabs - but I personally find they are somewhat loose or sloppy sounding and I don't like the particular resonance frequencies of that cab. If I was in the market for a 4 x 12, I would either go with a Stiletto 4 x 12 for rock, a Marshall 1960ac for classic tones, or a Mills Afterburner 4 x 12 for heavies and tight riffing.

 

[ifailedshapes]

I voted based on the options you gave us, but I agree that you should probably compare the Mark V against a Roadster and choose between only those two.

 

[UnderJollyRoger]

About the Duals clean tone: no experience with fat-mode, but the clean channel has more than enough "body", so to say. In fact, I'm running my Bass and Mids on this channel at about 9:00, and a few days ago I was just playing around, palm-muting the open G-String and I was clearly able to not only hear but also to feel it

 

[ElectricTurkey4369]

I got a roadster a couple months ago and love it!

It's so versatile and the 4 channels really give you a variety of sounds. The clean channel
really makes the amp brilliant, tweed mode more specifically. Very warm and tweedish :lol:

The distortion absolutely destroys! I use channel 3 for my rhythm and my channel 4 for leads, its the perfect sound.
I love how you can choose either the tube rectifier or diode for each channel, it really gives you alot to work with.

 

[droptrd]

Id go roadster over RK. That thing is overpriced for what it does IMO. No offense to RK owners

 

[rocknroll9225]

thanks for all the input. as far as the recto vs mark thing goes, my main concern about getting a recto is that a dont want the bass to flub out and get to the point where im tripping over it as im playing riffs. and my main concern about marks is not getting a "full" enough tone, for the lack of a better word. I've heard that marks work much better in a mix, which would obviously be the amps main practical use.

to all the recto/roadster/RK owners... I know that 2 big things that you can do the clean up the rectos muddiness is to use a stiletto cab instead of the rectifier cab, and to run an OD such as a tubescreamer or a maxon OD808 in front of it. i, however, have no personal experience with those so could anyone that does tell me how well would that work to get rid of the flubbiness? thanks

 

[ElectricTurkey4369]

My roadster is no where near flubby sounding, just really fat sounding. Just keep the bass at a reasonable level.

I use an OD infront which adds a bit more midrange and tightens up the sound a bit. Without the OD, it still sounds good but is a bit more sludgy sounding.

Remember that rectos have the vintage mode which cleans things up a bit. Modern is a bit too bass and presense heavy for me, really saturated. Vintage, bold, and diode with an OD will give you a nice tight sound.
I was deciding between a roadster and a mark IV, and I'm glad I went with the roadster.

 

[LesPaul70]

Expect to get some very Roadster/Road King favoring opinions, since you posted on the Rectifier forum.

Speaking as someone who has a Dual Rectifier and a Mark V, here are my thoughts on Rectifier vs Mark.

Basically, if you pick one of the more versatile models (Roadster/Road King or Mark V), you can safely expect it to do pretty much anything you need, one way or another. But that said - there are fundamental differences between the Mark vs Rectifier sounds, and you cannot exactly reproduce one with the other. They don't overlap.

A Roadster/Road King has great clean tones, British-oriented crunch tones, and the famous Rectifier distortion, with the awesome and even exaggerated bass output. Depending on your rig, you may find yourself preferring the bass pot turned down all the way to zero - and the bass thump is still very marked. (There's lots more on tap if you need it!)
The downside: for lead playing, this is no match for the Mark series distortion. On its own, it sounds buzzy, fizzy, unfocused and unexciting. Somebody said in another thread that the Vintage mode can be made to sound like a Mark amp but I would have to disagree. Well, yes, the basic timbre can get sort of close (if you don't pay heed to the extra bass) but the fundamental gain structure is radically different. The Rectifier Vintage mode will still sound less focused and less articulate.
But this is not an unsurpassable hurdle. Roll back the Rectifier Gain, throw in a Tube Screamer equivalent to tighten up the sound (and possibly add an EQ pedal, to taste), and presto, your Rectifier will be transformed into a very workable lead guitarist's amp. (But then, a Mark V will do the same out of the box without the need for extra pedals.)

What Mark V lacks is the brutal bassy distortion that a Rectifier will give you. Nor does it, out of the box, give you the ludicrous amounts of gain/compression that a maxed-out Rectifier puts out. (That's not to say a Mark V doesn't give you more than enough gain on its own, a Rectifier will just give you some more.) Even if you max out the bass frequencies on your Mark V, it's no match for a Rectifier.
Is this a problem? I would say NO - provided that your band has a bass guitarist. Let him/her provide the low-end thump (that's why you have a bassist in the first place, right?). I have known bass guitarists who've got very annoyed if they felt a guitarist was stepping on what they considered their territory. Something that can happen all too easily with a Rectifier.
The upside: the beautiful, focused, liquid, singing lead tones you can get from a Mark V! Right out of the box. Also, while the Mark amp doesn't quite have the brutal low-end authority of a Rectifier, the tone has more midrange bite and tends to stand out better in a band mix. Also - don't neglect the GEQ. It's a exceptionally powerful builtin tool for shaping your sound into something completely different.

Are you planning to keep the Marshall? If so, I might be inclined to recommend a Rectifier. Or a Roadster or a Road King if you can afford one, they are even more versatile than the new Dual Rectifier.
OTOH, if you are getting rid of the Marshall anyway, you could play it safe and get a Mark V. It's sort of middle ground between a Marshall and a Rectifier, with some good aspects of both. If you later feel inclined to also have the Recto distortion (which the Mark V cannot give you), just expand your sound palette with a second-hand Dual (or a Roadster/RK). That's what I did.

 

[rocknroll9225]

Expect to get some very Roadster/Road King favoring opinions, since you posted on the Rectifier forum.

Speaking as someone who has a Dual Rectifier and a Mark V, here are my thoughts on Rectifier vs Mark.

Basically, if you pick one of the more versatile models (Roadster/Road King or Mark V), you can safely expect it to do pretty much anything you need, one way or another. But that said - there are fundamental differences between the Mark vs Rectifier sounds, and you cannot exactly reproduce one with the other. They don't overlap.

A Roadster/Road King has great clean tones, British-oriented crunch tones, and the famous Rectifier distortion, with the awesome and even exaggerated bass output. Depending on your rig, you may find yourself preferring the bass pot turned down all the way to zero - and the bass thump is still very marked. (There's lots more on tap if you need it!)
The downside: for lead playing, this is no match for the Mark series distortion. On its own, it sounds buzzy, fizzy, unfocused and unexciting. Somebody said in another thread that the Vintage mode can be made to sound like a Mark amp but I would have to disagree. Well, yes, the basic timbre can get sort of close (if you don't pay heed to the extra bass) but the fundamental gain structure is radically different. The Rectifier Vintage mode will still sound less focused and less articulate.
But this is not an unsurpassable hurdle. Roll back the Rectifier Gain, throw in a Tube Screamer equivalent to tighten up the sound (and possibly add an EQ pedal, to taste), and presto, your Rectifier will be transformed into a very workable lead guitarist's amp. (But then, a Mark V will do the same out of the box without the need for extra pedals.)

What Mark V lacks is the brutal bassy distortion that a Rectifier will give you. Nor does it, out of the box, give you the ludicrous amounts of gain/compression that a maxed-out Rectifier puts out. (That's not to say a Mark V doesn't give you more than enough gain on its own, a Rectifier will just give you some more.) Even if you max out the bass frequencies on your Mark V, it's no match for a Rectifier.
Is this a problem? I would say NO - provided that your band has a bass guitarist. Let him/her provide the low-end thump (that's why you have a bassist in the first place, right?). I have known bass guitarists who've got very annoyed if they felt a guitarist was stepping on what they considered their territory. Something that can happen all too easily with a Rectifier.
The upside: the beautiful, focused, liquid, singing lead tones you can get from a Mark V! Right out of the box. Also, while the Mark amp doesn't quite have the brutal low-end authority of a Rectifier, the tone has more midrange bite and tends to stand out better in a band mix. Also - don't neglect the GEQ. It's a exceptionally powerful builtin tool for shaping your sound into something completely different.

Are you planning to keep the Marshall? If so, I might be inclined to recommend a Rectifier. Or a Roadster or a Road King if you can afford one, they are even more versatile than the new Dual Rectifier.
OTOH, if you are getting rid of the Marshall anyway, you could play it safe and get a Mark V. It's sort of middle ground between a Marshall and a Rectifier, with some good aspects of both. If you later feel inclined to also have the Recto distortion (which the Mark V cannot give you), just expand your sound palette with a second-hand Dual (or a Roadster/RK). That's what I did.

thanks for the thorough expanation. and yes, i am keeping the marshall. since i got it ive kind of become a boogie fan, but theres no way i could justify selling it. i know at some point id regret that decision. the JVM is pretty kickass, but the biggest problem i have with it is the noise. on the high gain modes, the hiss get so loud that theyre flat out unusable without a noise gate (i have a iSP decimator rack version). and then i have to turn the threshold knob up so high that it cuts off single notes after a few seconds, which is unacceptable as a lead player. anyways, i hadnt really thought about the rectifier-biased answers id be getting. i think ill re-post this in the mark v forum to get both sides.

 

[rocknroll9225]

thanks for all the opinions, and im glad to say that i went with the Mark V. ive never been happier with a purchase in my life.

 

[YellowJacket]

You have a Marshall already? Then your crunch is covered. The Mark V is probably the perfect amp to compliment that. Just try ABing them live, using the Mark V for clean and leads!!

 

[rocknroll9225]

You have a Marshall already? Then your crunch is covered. The Mark V is probably the perfect amp to compliment that. Just try ABing them live, using the Mark V for clean and leads!!

i actually just A/Bed them earlier today and to be completely honest, the mark v flat out PWN3D the JVM. i guess i just like the way the mark sounds better, or maybe im just a 6L6 person at heart, but for clean, crunch, and high gain i thought the V was the clear victor. well, to be fair, the crunch was close. its hard to beat marshall at crunch, but i seriously think mesa did it with the mark v. the mark v has WAY better high gain sounds, way clearer, more articulate and more authoritative. the cleans on the marshall are actually pretty **** good, but imho, the only amps in the mk V's league as far as clean tones are the lone star, or pretty much any fender. and now that i think about it probably the AC30. and the V has actual tube driven spring reverb, and the JVM's is digital. i think ive said this before, but the one thing i absolutely HATE about the JVM is the excessive noise levels. it makes the high gain channels unusable without a gate. anyways, the JVM has its ups and downs, but i still love it for what it is. having said that though, i think it just got replaced as my "go to" amp.

 

[droptrd]

You should probably put this poll in the stiletto section or something other than the recto or mark forum so you can get unbiased opinions