Why Dumble?

[EtherealWidow]

Why is it that no one can seem to replicate this amp? Why can no one get us the Dumble tone for less than $30,000?

 

[MrMarkIII]

It's the "mystique", man.

Would you buy a Ferrari clone for $1,000?

First, no one would believe you could clone a Ferrari (or Rolls-Royce, or Lamborghini, or what-have-you) for so little. If it's so cheap, there must be something wrong with it.

(The other side of the coin is, of course, if it's so expensive, it must be better. These people are called "hobbyists".)

Second, owners of "real" Ferraris would only be too happy to remind you that what you have is not "the real thing". "My daddy can beat up your daddy" and "mine is bigger than yours" are time-honored male traditions.
It's the testosterone, don'tcha know.

 

[Anonymous]

Post removed.

 

[RR]

Besides Ceriatone, there a few boutique builder of Dumble clone such as Fuch, Carol[?], Brown Note just to name a few.

Why would one own one? 'Cause you'll be one of the privilege one. :roll:

I could win the lotto next week and a Dumble would not be on my list of "must own this amp". I'd be too embarrassed owning one thinking I'm better than everyone else.

They're great sounding, but if you asks me they sound like a Black Face Fender with an overdrive pedal.

My ultimate amp would be Vox AC30 power section and preamp gain like a MESA Maverick but tone controls like Black Face Fender. Actually Maverick is almost my ultimate amp, just wish the tone section was like Fender's.

 

[EtherealWidow]

I'm totally fine with 2 12AU7's in my Express and a compressor pedal. It's great. Just wondering why in the world anyone would ever buy a $30,000 amp ever. Have any of you heard of Henry Kaiser btw? He abuses Dumble amps. His music is downright offensive.

 

[Jackie]

What's wrong with you?! Don't you know UTTERLY IMPORTANT all those fragile harmonics are that Dumble amps preserve? :shock:

Man, to me buying a Road King is way too pricey.

 

[RR]

Robben Ford claims there's nothing that sounds like a Dumble. "Even with all those Dumble clones out there they haven't come close". Yet his colleague Larry Carlton doesn't tour with his Dumbles anymore. He now plays Dumb Clones Bludotone amps.

In mid-70's, [Santa Cruz, CA] I remember walking into an amp technician shop which double up as a guitar instructor's studio. In there was an early snake-skin MESA/Boogie and a Dumble. Alexander Howard Dumble was living in Santa Cruz, CA at the time. These amps were a bit funky at the time. The Dumble's writing on the chassis looked like it was done with tar.

Anyway, not sure who was first between Randall Smith or Alexander Howard that was doing cascading preamp gain. They are somewhat similar but MESA amps are pc boards while Dumble are point-to-point wiring.

[ unrelated Dumble topic ]

I'm totally fine with 2 12AU7's in my Express and a compressor pedal. It's great. ...

Whoa, you really lay off the preamp gain and rely on power stage tubes distortion[perhaps?]. I thought I was only one of few members here that like less preamp gain (with exception of playing my DR when fiddling with Metal, would like the lower power mini-Recto though).

I was about to sell my Studio .22+ because I figure I'll go the lunch pair rout (Mini-Recto). Then I change the V1, V2 with 12AY7 (yes, really low preamp gain) and 5751 preamp tubes on the Studio .22+. Although I lose out on preamp gain (that was my intention) I got less hiss, more channel balance, and fine tuning the preamp gain.

I can't say it was an improvement because many would prefer hi-preamp gain. To me, it is more like a low power MarkIIB which is one of my favorite Boogie.

[ edit note ] I wanna punch the nose of the member here claiming power stage tube distortion is over-rated. "I hate that farty sound of power stage tube distortion [ sic ]."

"farty sound" has NOTHING to do with power stage tube distortion. Power stage distortion has a subtle harmonic drive. "farty sound" has more to do maybe a new cap job or a tube overhaul.

 

[Jackie]

Power stage distortion has a subtle harmonic drive.

Last time I heard I a dimed Plexi it wasn't such a subtle drive... :twisted: Neither was my pop's Class5.

OK yeah there's some preamp tubes clipping but the way them amps are put together the tubes were probably begging for mercy.

 

[RR]

Power stage distortion has a subtle harmonic drive.

Last time I heard I a dimed Plexi it wasn't such a subtle drive... :twisted: Neither was my pop's Class5.

OK yeah there's some preamp tubes clipping but the way them amps are put together the tubes were probably begging for mercy.

uh, well the "drive" is much different than "fizzy" preamp drive.

I think every guitarist should experience a cranked up Marshall Super Lead! Now that's the gold standard of power stage tube distortion in my opinion! :wink:

 

[Jackie]

I see where you're aiming at. I agree

Yeah I also agree on hearing a Plexo dimed. When I got the chance I had a full stack of Greenbacks and a Les Paul Traditional and boy I haven't been the same ever since

 

[RR]

Now if I won the lotto, then a Marshall Plexi and half-stack w/ Greenback would definitely be my one of my purchases. My Les Pauls(2) are waiting.

Gosh, there's the one boutique amp builder building clones. Some of his clones includes vintage classic Marshalls. One customer on another board asked if he could add a rectifier switch for either tube or solid-state* on his 50-watt plexi. Although this builder never attempt this he said he could do it.

This amp builder was so astonish with this mod because his plexi could also sound like a JTM-45 Blues Breaker using the tube rectifier, he added this mod as an option on his 50-watt Plexi or JTM-45 clone builds.

Why am I talking about vintage Marshalls on a Boogie Board? Well in live situation I need channel switching especially I don't use stomp boxes. I rely on the cascading gains. So I find Boogies more practical for live situation.

* rectifier switching tube / solid-state is Randall Smith patent so Matchless, Bad Cats and the rest of these rectifier switching amplifiers has to pay license fee, unless the patent already ran out and Randall Smith has not renewed it.

[ end of hi-jack ]

 

[KH Guitar Freak]

Now if I won the lotto, then a Marshall Plexi and half-stack w/ Greenback would definitely be my one of my purchases. My Les Pauls(2) are waiting.

Gosh, there's the one boutique amp builder building clones. Some of his clones includes vintage classic Marshalls. One customer on another board asked if he could add a rectifier switch for either tube or solid-state* on his 50-watt plexi. Although this builder never attempt this he said he could do it.

This amp builder was so astonish with this mod because his plexi could also sound like a JTM-45 Blues Breaker using the tube rectifier, he added this mod as an option on his 50-watt Plexi or JTM-45 clone builds.

Why am I talking about vintage Marshalls on a Boogie Board? Well in live situation I need channel switching especially I don't use stomp boxes. I rely on the cascading gains. So I find Boogies more practical for live situation.

* rectifier switching tube / solid-state is Randall Smith patent so Matchless, Bad Cats and the rest of these rectifier switching amplifiers has to pay license fee, unless the patent already ran out and Randall Smith has not renewed it.

[ end of hi-jack ]

I could be wrong, but I thought the Mesa patent on the rectifier switching is based upon individual selection between diode and valve rectification, assignable per channel???

 

[RR]

...

* rectifier switching tube / solid-state is Randall Smith patent so Matchless, Bad Cats and the rest of these rectifier switching amplifiers has to pay license fee, unless the patent already ran out and Randall Smith has not renewed it.

[ end of hi-jack ]

I could be wrong, but I thought the Mesa patent on the rectifier switching is based upon individual selection between diode and valve rectification, assignable per channel???

What you stated, I'm pretty sure he has that patent too.

A while back, I was reading in a guitar magazine interview with Randall Smith was asked if he should have patent "cascading preamp gain" since now most hi gain guitar tube amps used this circuitry. He said "Yeah, I would have been a rich man. I pretty much patent many of my designs like Dual Rectifier having the option of using either tubes or silicon diode." [ paraphrase, well I thought he said something like that ].

I might be wrong 'cause Matchless DC30 came out about the time MESA's Dual Rectifier came out.

Randall Smith and Hartley Peavey have the most patent in guitar amp designs.

 

[fishyfishfish]

Glasswerks, Bludotone RED PLATE, Carrol Ann all make a "D" style amp that is under $30,000.00 and the best part is YOU get to pick what style of "D" amp you want!! To answer your question, I guess D had all of the best players and all of the mystique going for him, then dropped out of sight. Kind of like wen a movie star dies before their time, suddenly they are a legend ala James Dean.

 

[ChrisRocksUSA]

the mesa boogie tremoverb is based off of a dumble

 

[RR]

the mesa boogie tremoverb is based off of a dumble

Can you explain this?

Other than cascading preamp gain, they don't have much similarity. My buddy built a Brown Note D'Lite which is a Dumble Clone and I have Trem-o-Verb. They are way different design.

I'd have to look up through my Guitar Player Magazine and MESA Flyers but the Trem-o-Verb was inspired by the Dual Rectifier. Add a "Blues Mode", tremolo and reverb to Dual Rectifier and you have a Trem-o-Verb.

The Trem-o-Verb was the predecessor of now what is the Road King. Some Trem-oVerb owners didn't completely understand the "cloning" concept so why not just add two more channels instead? => Road King, or Roadster.

 

[212Mavguy]

the mesa boogie tremoverb is based off of a dumble

I'd like to see that schematic. Not all that many Dumbles were built with reverb and not that it doesn't exist, but I've never heard of a Dumble with trem and reverb. I have two D-clones, one an 80's design called an ODS circuit, and another, 90's HRM architecture. Both have mods to the negaive feedback circuit to be able to switch in or out. That gives either amp the ability to sound like the best Marshall you ever heard, or smooth and creamy with the flick of a switch...and these amps take 6l6's or el34's. Bias is manually set. There is a certain type of tone set that is pasted all over the internet that truly succeeds in showing only a small part of the palette of what "Dumble tone" is all about, unfortunately, like here, there is a lot of herd following and repeated gossip about the Dumble thang. The fact of the matter is, not two of Howard Alexander Dumble's amps are exactly alike. They are custom voiced for the artist owning them. In some cases that means a special type of circuit. SRV used the Steel String Singer to record Texas Flood's music. The SSS is the very newest amp to come out in a D-style from Ceriatone, at present there are at least 7 variations of Duble clones in prebuilt or various stages of kits, plus the SSS which is sold prebuilt only. Also, the thing about a Dumble or D-clone is the FX loop add on, it is a very cool tube fx buffer, and it works wonderfully welll on my Mav too. D-style amps work best with them in most applications.

Better chance that a Fender AB763 circuit is the Tremoverb's daddy. Does the T-verb use snubbers on any of the preamp tube sockets like Dumbles often do?

 

[94Tremoverb]

The Tremoverb is simply a 2-channel Dual Rectifier with reverb and tremolo. (The Blues mode is just different internal settings.)

As such it is the descendant of the Dual Rec, the Soldano SLO, the Marshall 2203, the Marshall Super Lead, the Marshall JTM45 and the Fender 5F6-A Bassman, in that order going backwards. (Not an AB763 of any kind.) It's nothing remotely like any Dumble schematic I've ever seen, nor does it sound at all like the only Dumble clone I've ever played.

I assume ChrisRocks was having a bit of a laugh .

 

[212Mavguy]

Awesome! Thanks for the correction!

 

[rfrakes]

I thought Dumble started with a BF Super Reverb and tweaked every component so he could tweak for a customer that wanted a specific sound.

And why they were so expensive.