Why Do Amps Sound Like Crap When Turned Up Loud?

[Kid Howren]

I have a Mark III (I think black dot) head with a 4X12 Mesa Cabinet (Celestion 90's). It sounds so kickass at a practice volume, but whenever I turn it up during band practice, it just gets shitty sounding and muddy and noisy. I mean, this is pretty much what I've experienced with most amps, but I never really knew the reason why. I thought I'd ask you guys about it and see if there's any solutions. Maybe it's just my amp.

Also, the amp sounds a lot worse when you're standing in front of it (even from 20 feet away). When standing above the speaker or from the sides, it sounds much better. There's so much stuff about speakers I don't get; just help me out here please.

 

[paleamberglow]

it all depends on how you have your amp's controls set... when you're at low volume, you probably have a tendency to add mids and bass, then when you turn up , it turns to flub. your amp will sound different with those settings at higher volume. i've also noticed you don't need as much gain / distortion at higher volumes. you should play at stage volume for a little while and set the controls to suit your ears then. and then write down the settings for future use. don't overdo it though, because after a while you will lose sensitivity to the higher frequencies due to the volume and keep turning up the treble.

 

[musicman10_1]

Keep working with it. Volume changes many things in terms of what you hear. Adjust your eq, and has been said, practice at a higher volume to get a feel for what the adjustments to the eq do to your tone.

Boogies are sensitive and even small adjustments make a big differnece. Also, you may feel more confident playing at a low volume and so you need to practice at a higher volume setting to get used to your sound.

 

[Russ]

Most good amps will sound differently at different volumes.

As you turn up louder you need to reevaluate your tone and gain settings. As you get louder you will rely more on power tube distortion than preamp tube distortion. Even as little change as going from loud home level to small gig levels will cause some need for adjustment. You may be experiencing what I like to think of as an awakening. Once you get used to hearing yourself loud you will appreciate it more than your quiet home playing. Afterall this is what we all buy these amps for.

Also once you turn up you need to adjust your perspective on your sound. I find that if I move one way or the other my sound can change dramatically. There is a tone pocket that you will sound like crap to your ears you might be hanging out in there. Move a little bit. Also there is a natural beam of sound coming from your amp's speakers. Try not to stand in there too much as it can be a little overwhelming sometimes. Again, adjust your sound as your levels go up but remember that what sounds good to you might not sound good to your audience. It is important to play to your audience. If you need to hear yourself sounding good invest in a good monitor. One thing I like to do is get someone that knows your tone and have them scout around and listen to you from across the room in various places. Then have them signal to you what to adjust. This way allows you to ensure that you are sounding good to the masses. Once you get a general idea of your tone settings then it is not as critical but it is still nice to have that bit of assistance in new (to you) venues.

If you rely on sounding good only where you are standing you might be missing the bigger picture. Imagine this scenario.... You are listening to music really loud in your car. It might sound good to you right there in it within feet of your speakers. It probably sounds like crap outside your little focused spot. Many high end car audio guys tailor car audio to where the owner wants the sound. Some look to sound good inside while others want appreciation outside the car.

Remember that as was stated above that your bass levels will go down and your mids and highs will go up as you get louder in order to maintain good tone. With too much bass and not enough mids and highs you will not only flub out but you will get lost in the mix. If you want to be heard you will need mids at gig level. No amount of desiring some "uber" scooped metal sound will make you sound better loud. It is often a good idea to play with a more straight sound then get eq'd at the board so the PA can put out the sound you ultimately want. This will allow you to cut and your solos will definitely stand out.

When I guitar tech'd and did sound checks for friends' bands I found that they often needed some tuning of their settings to make their desired sound come out. It takes some self control and trust but it will definitely help you in the long run to sound good.

Also your sound at home is unaccompanied and uncompensated. In a live setting you have to play your part and fill your frequencies. If you are trying to play too low then you are stepping on your bassist's toes. If you are trying to play with too much highs as noted as a problem above you get too harsh and ice picky sounding. If you use too much preamp gain you mush out. As you get louder and play with others your settings will change and you must adjust them accordingly. With experience this will come to you easier though you may still want a roving second ear to double check you.

 

[Russ]

You might also try a Mark style cabinet. Even an open back cabinet with an EVM.

I have found my Mark IV sounds great with a Greenback loaded 4x12 Marshall cabinet too. I have played my Mark IV through 4x12's with G12T-75's, G12-65's, and V30's also. I can tell you that your speakers make a lot of difference as well as what you are actually playing through them and what your settings are. I like the 65's but they don't have the bottom of the 75's or the v30's. The 75's have too much highs for some sounds. The V30's sound too dark for some things. The Greenbacks even sound too middy for some stuff. For classy singing leads though the Greenbacks do it for me. I also like to run a pair of EVM's (one in the combo cabinet with the other in a sealed or ported cabinet- mine just happens to be fully convertible from open back to closed back to ported a la Thiele design). I still want to just get an old Mark cabinet that is open top and closed (ported) bottom.

 

[MesieBooga]

Try dialing it in a stage volume. Take a picture of the settings and save it.

 

[thindave]

This may be some good reading:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fletcher-Munson_curves

Dave

 

[BPski]

I use my Mk IIB on gigs and at home. I use the graphic EQ to "fatten" it up at low volumes when I am playing at home. When I take it to the gigs I do not use the EQ at all because my home settings at gig volumes sound too bottom heavy and does not cut. The louder I play it the less Bass and Middle I need to add. Overall volume has alot to do with tone whether it be low or loud. Try different Treble, Middle and Bass settings. Then try different EQ settings. Have fun!!

 

[JOEY B.]

These guys are right about the EQ adjustments. It could be worse, as I have the opposite problem. I am not happy with my tone until I get the amp really "singing", if you know what I mean.

 

[Kid Howren]

Thanks, you guys have all helped a lot. I'll get to trying some of this stuff tomorrow. I wish I knew someone who know all this stuff to show me in person. I'm usually stuck to figuring this stuff out myself. And yeah we're just now getting to playing gigs so I'm glad I asked you guys about it, as this will definitely help.

 

[Russ]

I like the sound of a cranked amp myself but am just as comfortable settling for home levels. I can't stand attenuators. After having used one for months I gave up on it. I just couldn't stand losing the tone I knew should have been coming out. Besides, sometimes you can get some nuances playing quietly that you would not necessarily get playing loud.