Why did they stop making the MKIIC+ so early?

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holdsworth

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Just out of curiosity, I was wondering if anyone could shed some light in to why Mesa/Boogie decided to stop production of the MKIIC+ so early on in its production life if they knew they were on to a winner? Like it or loathe it most people do consider the MKIIC+ a superior beast to the MKIII variants, and some even prefer it to the rather delicious MKIV (though this is somewhat subjective).

One question, why did Mesa/Boogie kill their prodigal son?
 
they are always innovating. a 3 channel amp was the next logical step for them at the time. not until the mark4 did they figure out how to put different knobs for each channel.
 
Elpelotero said:
they are always innovating. a 3 channel amp was the next logical step for them at the time. not until the mark4 did they figure out how to put different knobs for each channel.

Do you think they'll ever release a re-issue of it, like the Mark I?
 
While at the Mesa booth at the last NAMM show I asked about the possibilities of a MK IIC+ RI and a MK V. I was told there are no plans to reissue the IIC+. I was also told the MK V has been discussed and will happen at some point. But when and what it form it will take is undecided.
So I considered the MK V answer good news, but I'm not holding my breath.
 
Elpelotero said:
they are always innovating. a 3 channel amp was the next logical step for them at the time. not until the mark4 did they figure out how to put different knobs for each channel.
+1. We could say a similar thing for Rectos, about those loved two channels...
 
I would assume that if they did reissue the Mk II C+, that it would be a run-away seller & be very profitable for Mesa. Unless they are unable to mfg the C+ due to the possible unavailability of certain crucial components, I don't understand why they won't. Maybe they are concerned that it will compromise Mk IV sales perhaps?
 
I have a fully loaded hardwood simul IIC+ with all the bells and whistles. Essentially the most desirable amp in the world. Had it since I was 14 years old. Only amp I ever owned.

The tone is such a part of my soul as a human being I'd die if I ever lost her...

Yet --- I always hungered for additional channels. I wanted Clean & Dirty and trying to balance the tone and sound between the two channels using the same knobs at the extremes meant some tones were lost at the expense of others.

The obvious solution would be get 2 IIC+'s and go to town.....

But I suspect it was this desire for independence that lead for the development of the 3, then the 4... etc. Too bad they lost some of the magic on the way.
 
I feel the need for a second Mark IV :eek:

Clean, Crunchy Clean, soft bluesie overdrive, rolling crunch, chunky crunch and heavy Metallica rythm tone.

So I need two fours. :(
 
holdsworth said:
Just out of curiosity, I was wondering if anyone could shed some light in to why Mesa/Boogie decided to stop production of the MKIIC+ so early on in its production life if they knew they were on to a winner? Like it or loathe it most people do consider the MKIIC+ a superior beast to the MKIII variants, and some even prefer it to the rather delicious MKIV (though this is somewhat subjective).

One question, why did Mesa/Boogie kill their prodigal son?

They obviously think the Mark III is a better amp than the IIC+... and maybe they have a point.

I have both: a hardwood, fully loaded (non Simul-class) IIC+ and a fully loaded, Simul-class Mark III black stripe that I sent to Mike Bendinelli for changing it into red stripe specs and adding the R2 volume mod.

I always loved my IIC+. But now, after getting back my III red stripe from Mike, it is a much tougher choice.
Of course, I am comparing a 60/100 watter (4 6L6 green) with a Simulclass (4 6L6, red outside pair and grey inside pair) and maybe that is what makes a difference.

Or maybe, it is the difference, between the Mark III I sent to Mike and the Mark III he sent me back, that has kept me mesmerized since then.
Regards
Daniel
 
To understand is a moot point. The IIC+ barely made it to 1.5 years of production. I have never seen a serial number over 14500. The MK III in it's own right lasted 13 years, as well as the MK IV at 17 years and going.
the sad reality is that there are not components that are magical in the IIC+ that cannot be duplicated. CTS can still makes the pots, Shumacher can still wind the trannies and all the LDR's are still in use. The only issue i can think of is the silver content of the preamp and power amp boards. They never tarnish, so there has got to be some silver content as opposed to copper like in the rest of the Mesa boards. The current generation boards are thin, copper traced and come in stacked batches that basically are perforated to break apart, populate and install. Even the small EQ amp board could be made. It all really leads to progress and design evolution. Stemming from the MK III and IV, I can guarantee that they were more profitable and less labor intense amps to maake. In essence, the + lives on in the III and IV.
Having all of them is a luxury I am very proud to have, but I do find the III and IV to be more consistemt amps with a sweeter, yet bery capable lineage to draw from. Due to the current C+ supply and demand situation, I would be happy enough with a IIIC+ or the MK IV B. They are different, but in a positive way. I am a proponent who could never be called impartial to the IIC+, obviously I have found the amp in my head, but I deeply appreciate the MK III Green Stripe and the MK IV B. I've played enough III's to feel that the Green Strip has something special and the MK IV is very consistent from amp to amp. In all sincerity, I took the opportunity to play 4 IIC+'s today and I was just totally awestruck at how amaing they are, not only for the lead channel, but the cleans and boosting with a BB preamp. Simply amazing with more palletes people give it credit for. My 84 Imbuy 1X12 with Simul-EQ and Reverb just oozes touch sensitivity and an amazing array of complexity even plating through the combos EV-12L. I also do not see a reissue having the capability of having 23-23 year old transformers and who would want to settle for the amp not being an exact duplication of the original. I don't think the reissue market would do anything but make the originals more valuable, thus putting them seriously out of reach of even a player/collector even with the means of purchasing. I already have the feeling that they are the modern era production Dumble. I find it to be history.
I often think, why can I not order a new Dumble for $ 6000 or why Air France stopped flying the Concorde !!! Then again, Mesa is known to have a Dumble approach if you know how to dial it in. Larry Carlton and Carlos are a really good representation with the MK I, but how many of us can honestly say we have had a Dumble or a IIC+ in front of us. Both are limited edition amps with very few true owners. In the scheme of all the possible numbers of musicians in the worlds. Lets just imagine that there are 1,000,000 tube amps users in the USA. The IIC+ would account for .0025% or possible ownership. It seems the Holy Grail moniker is quite appropriate. As much as a reissue would be a great opportunity, I see Mesa looking much further down the road than a 22 year old design. the market is definatley in the Recto/RK/Lone Star direction. With the recent increased popularity of the MK IV, I really do not see a resissue or a MK IV. The DNA is in the MK IV, for Mesa it is the IV, Triaxis or end of story.
 
If they ever do a re-issue C+, I hope that they would be kind enough to include the EQ. The absense of EQ and the pull gain boost and bright knobs on the MkI re-issue are the downsides to that amp. But the effects loop and Tweed function are great additions to the original IMO.
 
If they do ever re-issue the Mark IIc+, I hope that it is more of a modified reincarnation rather than an exact duplicate of the original. The IIc+ has some great sounds, but lets face it, it is not the most flexible amp in the world. 2 "channels" with shared EQ and very limited switching abilities. I would like to see two fully independent channels, each with their own reverb mix too. External switching options (reverb, eq, loop, solo, etc) would be welcome too. Oh wait... that sounds a whole lot like the Mark IV. YYYYYEEEEEAAAAHHHHH!!!!! I have one of those. :D :D :D The Mark IV is more than enough amp for me. It can do IIc+ tones and A LOT more.
 
Ever hear the phrase "It's hard to live up to a ghost". If they changed anything on the (potential) C+ re-issue, it would be the kiss of death. The hardcore fans of this amp would not see it as a faithful reproduction. I agree with your statement about the MkIV being much more than a one trick pony(hell, I own one). But, I'm selling it to fund my next MarkII purchase.
 

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