Who is running EL34s in their V:90s?

[rarebitusa]

Not a new topic, I know, actually have done the thread search. But digging around for an update. If anyone is running them currently in their V:90s and prefer them vs the 6L6s or not and why? Ok I have not yet tried them yet... but I dig my Badlander's response, the squishyness and feel. Especially for single note work it's so easy to play. The V:90 which I dig... alot TBH there is a slight degree of "fighting it" vs the Badlander.

I did recall this thread, which was really good, the OP took great notes.

V Power Tube Voltage & Bias

Currently do run 90W Ch 1 (max headroom), 45W Tube Rect Ch 2 (for Sag) and 10W Ch3 (for Class A harmonic content). IIRC 10W mode is always using Tube Rect on Ch3 but maybe someone can confirm that?

Haven't been running variac mode cause it's too saggy with the 6L6s, but with el34s you have to. I don't want to lose too much of the immediate attack with diode rect. Anyway, any details on the el34 experience let me know. Or should I just not bother and play the Badlander when I'm not in the fighting mood.

 

[Wayno]

I preferred the EL34's in my V90. I currently have 6L6's installed because I'm only playing once a week at a predominantly unplugged acoustic jam playing mainly 50's and 60's rock n roll so as you can imagine I'm running very low volume so figured I would save putting the miles on the EL34's. But, that aside, when the band was in full flow I always preferred EL34's when cranking up as they just felt warmer than the 6L6's which felt a bit cold and stiff to me. The 6L6's were great for the really heavy stuff but everything else felt better with the warmer more forgiving EL34's. Cleans included for me as I would run Ch1 Fat on just the edge of breakup then back off the guitar volume a touch and switch between pickups depending on how clean I wanted to be. Adding a boost to push Ch1 into full breakup for a cranked Jtm 45 type vibe. EL34's worked great for this i felt with my guitars. Ch2 I'd run in Crunch mainly ( sometimes edge if the room was a bit boomy ) set relatively light on gain to cover brit pop/indie type stuff and again boost to push it into Jcm 800 guns and roses territory. Ch3 with my V90 i would run iiC+ set very heavy with gain between 1 to 2 o'clock based on the room and the EL34's were more than good enough for the 4 or 5 songs we did that needed this level of heavy, think system of a down, Metallica etc. All set 45w, tube rectifier, triode on Ch3 and obviously variac. However, I only have the one set of 6L6's and one set of EL34's so have only that these two sets to compare. I can't comment on comparing different sets of the same type. And, my V90 is far from stock. Hope my milage helps for what it's worth.

Wayno.

 

[rarebitusa]

I preferred the EL34's in my V90. I currently have 6L6's installed because I'm only playing once a week at a predominantly unplugged acoustic jam playing mainly 50's and 60's rock n roll so as you can imagine I'm running very low volume so figured I would save putting the miles on the EL34's. But, that aside, when the band was in full flow I always preferred EL34's when cranking up as they just felt warmer than the 6L6's which felt a bit cold and stiff to me. The 6L6's were great for the really heavy stuff but everything else felt better with the warmer more forgiving EL34's. Cleans included for me as I would run Ch1 Fat on just the edge of breakup then back off the guitar volume a touch and switch between pickups depending on how clean I wanted to be. Adding a boost to push Ch1 into full breakup for a cranked Jtm 45 type vibe. EL34's worked great for this i felt with my guitars. Ch2 I'd run in Crunch mainly ( sometimes edge if the room was a bit boomy ) set relatively light on gain to cover brit pop/indie type stuff and again boost to push it into Jcm 800 guns and roses territory. Ch3 with my V90 i would run iiC+ set very heavy with gain between 1 to 2 o'clock based on the room and the EL34's were more than good enough for the 4 or 5 songs we did that needed this level of heavy, think system of a down, Metallica etc. All set 45w, tube rectifier, triode on Ch3 and obviously variac. However, I only have the one set of 6L6's and one set of EL34's so have only that these two sets to compare. I can't comment on comparing different sets of the same type. And, my V90 is far from stock. Hope my milage helps for what it's worth.

Wayno.

Thanks, very helpful indeed. Appreciate the detail. That's enough to get me off my butt and try it

 

[Wayno]

Thanks, very helpful indeed. Appreciate the detail. That's enough to get me off my butt and try it

Get the feeling you, like me, prefer a bit of squish rather than all out accuracy and EL34's definitely gave me that. Glad I could be of help and hope you enjoy as much as I did

 

[rarebitusa]

Get the feeling you, like me, prefer a bit of squish rather than all out accuracy and EL34's definitely gave me that. Glad I could be of help and hope you enjoy as much as I did

Oh yea I am a V:90 fanboy in a big way, even with 6L6s... but the Badlander is really giving me squishyness envy. However it's clean voicing doesn't compare to the V and that's hard to replace . The preamp voicing may have more to do with that, well I'm hoping so. My Stiletto is very immediate even with el34s and always run it in Spongy (variac) mode. But it's just a raw beast that needs volume, but I find I prefer its clean voicing to the Badlander's clean also.

Anyway can anyone confirm if CH 3 in 10W mode is always using the Tube Rect?

 

[rarebitusa]

Hey I found the answer to the question, had brain fade about this post, which I even commented on LOL not the 1st time I forgot details.

"However, channel 3 is always diode rectified at all power levels 10, 45 and 90W."

10W is Tube Rect

 

[Elliot Twist]

I switched the 6L6s in my Mark Five to EL34's and it helped me get to where I wanted to be.
I've been playing Marshall amps since 1985. This is my first Mesa. I've got mine sounding like "fire".
I almost sounds perfect and now I try to match other amps to sound as good, even the Marshall amps.
Here is a thread I posted concerning my Mark Five Variac Power and EL34 Power Tubes.
Folks here don't like my approach with the EQ settings even though I immediately stated that "I'm a Marshall Guy."
My Mesa sounds so great that I can't wait to turn it on and play on it.
It's hard to look a without wanting to turn it on.

 

[rarebitusa]

Folks here don't like my approach with the EQ settings even though I immediately stated that "I'm a Marshall Guy."

IMHO those EQ settings are a result of tuning with your ears and not your eyes which really is the proper approach anyway. I find the V:90 incredibly versatile, almost to a fault cause one can get "lost" with all the features. FWIW I'm not a tube connoisseur, but even I heard a difference with the power tubes and V4 AT7 mod.

Going to give the el34s a try in the near future.

 

[Eevil]

Tested the V with EL34s quickly but swapped back 6L6

Should try again at some point and check if i’d like ut or not..

 

[Elliot Twist]

IMHO those EQ settings are a result of tuning with your ears and not your eyes which really is the proper approach anyway. I find the V:90 incredibly versatile, almost to a fault cause one can get "lost" with all the features. FWIW I'm not a tube connoisseur, but even I heard a difference with the power tubes and V4 AT7 mod.

Going to give the el34s a try in the near future.

There something I have to get from the clean channel of any amp. The Marshall DSL amps give it to me easily.
The Marshall JVM410H won't give it up quite so easily, actually not perfectly at all.
I think some of the problem with the Marshall JVM410H is have the right speaker for the sound I'm looking for.
Channel one on my Mesa Boogie Mark Five right out of the box appeared it wasn't going to be easy getting the sound I'm looking for either.
I could tell right away it wasn't going to be easy and that I might not get the sound I'm looking for.
I figured I'd have to use the graphic EQ on channel one to get there.
It took a very long time to get it to sound the way I wanted, but it's good enough now.
FYI: Pete Townshend - Another Tricky Day is the clean crunch I dial up on all amps.
My Mesa Boogie Mark Five 1X12 combo with the Mesa Boogie Vertical 2X12 cab sounds like "fire."

 

[Eevil]

Dropped some unknown-aged set of EL34s in the amp and fiddled around.

Time will tell how they’ll fare with my tastes - that may change overnight

 

[rarebitusa]

Dropped some unknown-aged set of EL34s in the amp and fiddled around.

Time will tell how they’ll fare with my tastes - that may change overnight

following... I won't get back to my V until after the weekend

 

[Eevil]

well.. feels pretty nice and tone is bright but tolerable

Cab is 4x12 Mesa Trad. Recto with -36db of attenuation from Captor X so it might be a bit on the loud side.

 

[rarebitusa]

feels pretty nice and tone is bright but tolerable

Give it some Treb was that Diode or Rect with the 45W? Dang I am really going to have to try this

 

[Eevil]

Give it some Treb was that Diode or Rect with the 45W? Dang I am really going to have to try this

45w and tube recto.. later on tested with 90w… worked pretty good..

Hefty amout of treble to slice thru the tubby bass and finally clamp the highs with presence.

 

[MarkV User]

I didn’t like EL34s in the Mark V even though I prefer them generally.

But now I lowered the gain of of most the amp stages with tube changes and put an EVM 12L 300W in the combo, removed all the switched options in the presence/feedback so the presence circuit looks like a straight Mark III. And I switched to the 100/104 Super Distortion pickups in one guitar and an EMG 85/60A combo in another. Everything feels more organic, the harshness is gone, and most of the knob ranges on the Mark V and guitars are useful, which is a big difference.

I’ll try the EL34s again and report back. They might work better now.

 

[MarkV User]

I have something interesting to report. I swapped in JJ EL-34s. Otherwise I’ve been running JJ 5881 tubes in the center positions and Mesa 6L6GC tubes in the outer positions.

At first I noticed a lack of some nice bright character that comes from the 5881s. But I liked the roundedness of the EL34s too. Mostly I noticed a big difference in bias because the EL34 normal bias position is variac mode and I ordinarily only run variac mode with the 5881/6L6GC combo. So the EL34s were louder but I adjusted the volumes down to get a comparable volume and good tone.

Unfortunately after a few minutes my ears started to ring. The high frequency noise is a problem I struggled with in the past but solved. I didn’t do anything heavy handed. Getting rid of the presence options and matching the Mark III and the speaker change were probably the most important parts, and gain staging the amp with preamp tube changes was part of it too. I always thought I would need to add a high cut filter somewhere but in the end it wasn’t necessary. But suddenly with EL34s that problem is back in full force. So it is back to the old setup, and eventually I will run all 5881s. The important ones were the inner pair though. To me the 5881 tubes are a big improvement over the stock 6L6GCs.

My best understanding is that the Mark series amps have a phase shift in the feedback that can boost some presence frequencies too much depending on the impedance of the last amp section and transformer vs the speaker that is installed.

I have not gotten around to adding external bias test points and adjustment pots, but one solution to the problem I had with the EL34s might be to reduce the bias, since the bias difference was the really big change with the tube swap.

So: sound wise I liked the EL34s but not as much as the 5881s. And without making new circuit modifications the EL34s won’t work well in my amp.

I didn’t like EL34s in the Mark V even though I prefer them generally.

But now I lowered the gain of of most the amp stages with tube changes and put an EVM 12L 300W in the combo, removed all the switched options in the presence/feedback so the presence circuit looks like a straight Mark III. And I switched to the 100/104 Super Distortion pickups in one guitar and an EMG 85/60A combo in another. Everything feels more organic, the harshness is gone, and most of the knob ranges on the Mark V and guitars are useful, which is a big difference.

I’ll try the EL34s again and report back. They might work better now.

 

[rarebitusa]

Well it's good you have a fallback configuration.

My best understanding is that the Mark series amps have a phase shift in the feedback that can boost some presence frequencies too much depending on the impedance of the last amp section and transformer vs the speaker that is installed.

TBH I am a bit puzzled with this only cause so many have a V and do not appear to have an issue with the presence (me included). For sure some folks don't find the V a good solution. for their needs. Totally get that. Now @bandit2013 gets a pass... as his V certainly exhibits other strange behavior issues, probably mistreated in it's adolescent years by Randall or Doug . BTW, I'm not disagreeing with what you hear or your modifications just curious as to why?

That said presence is one of the more defining features in an amp. Case in point my Stiletto, after adding the simple Depth Mod to the presence circuit it was a game changer. It provided the capability to enhance the bass response of the presence which allowed it to be much more frequency balanced. So I for one get how a change to that would be a big deal. TBH I wasn't really aware of how complicated Mesa had made the presence on the V anyway.

Hopefully I'll get a chance to do the el34 test on my V this week.

 

[spawnofthesith]

I really liked the winged =c= EL34s I had in my first mark V 15ish years ago. Just running 6L6s in the one I just got at the moment though. Sounding really good so I'm not in a rush to experiment.

Out of curiosity... how serious is the manual update about ONLY using variac mode with EL34s? I had my old one before they updated the manual to say this. I never had any issues using regular power mode pretty heavily for the 2 or so years I had the amp. Anecdotally never heard of any issues from anyone else either (and =C= EL34s were a pretty popular pairing with the Mark V at the time as I recall)

 

[mace]

Years back I burned up some EL-34s (from Mesa, not sure what type/color) pretty quick (less than a year) using FULL power. This was before the manual change to use VARIAC.