Which Tubescreamer to get? What about Analogman?

[fatboy135]

man we are trying to say you that evh has a very complex and proceses sound, ts808 and ts9 are quite similar and that issue makes it so difficult to know which pedal is on the processed signal path.
try to seek photos of evh equipment or ask directly to him by his forum

 

[mloiaco]

man we are trying to say you that evh has a very complex and proceses sound, ts808 and ts9 are quite similar and that issue makes it so difficult to know which pedal is on the processed signal path.
try to seek photos of evh equipment or ask directly to him by his forum

I'm not going to bicker, but since my question continues to be misinterpreted (even after I made it multiple choice), I'm going to explain this again...

I'm not looking to buy something just because EVH uses it, and I'm definitely not looking to sound like EVH. I was JUST CURIOUS which TS he used on the song Summer Nights. If you know the answer, then I'd love to hear you respond with either "TS9" or "TS808". Otherwise, thanks for reading this, but no need to respond unless you know the answer.

By the way, I A/B'd a TS9 and a TS808 this weekend and I bought a TS808...it sounded more "organic" and percussive than the TS9. But I'd still like to know the answer to my question.

 

[fatboy135]

ok so then good luck, and keep it on with that question. I don´t know the answer, cheers :wink:

 

[holdsworth]

Let's try this again...

If you know the answer to the following multiple choice question, please reply with (a) or (b).

Which Tubescreamer did EVH use on Summer Nights?
a) "TS9"
b) "808"

What an *******. :lol:

 

[bigshooter]

I just bought a Keeley modded TS9DX

 

[bbking67]

srv used a number of different tubescreeamers over the years including the ts9 and ts10 as well as the ts808. They are all pretty close in sound... there is a back to back comparison on youtube and it would be difficult to tell them apart...

I'm not slamming the modders here by any means... I am sure there are some subtle differences. I personally use an ubnmodded TS10 Tube Screamer Classic and with the "drive" knob rolled completely off I get nice overdrive tones with my Mesa and Fender amps. I often use the Mark III crunch tone over top as a lead boost and it sounds pretty good (I leave the TS10 on most of the time).

I also occasionally use the TS10 with a Sparkle Drive (voodoo labs)... it is like a tube screamer (I think it's the same type of cicuit but I am not sure) but allows some clean tone to be blended as well. Having two pedals provides a nice mild crunch with a boost/lead with slightly more crunch. I play blues, soul and british invasion stuff, so clipped out tones are not my thing. I have also used an older Boss "double overdrive" with some success--again rolling the drive to very low and using the level as a boost. The double overdrive has a second "lead" boost with an external switch, but I find it colours the lead tone too much so I try not to use it.

I think the Tubescreamer lore is overrated... it is a good pedal for this warm crunch or as a clean boost, but there are many other overdrives that can do it and the results vary considerably depending on the guitar/amp setup. Pretty much the idea is to get a mainstream amp to sound like a cranked tube amp... in clubs you can usually only set an up up on very low volumes. With Mesa's, it's difficult to dial in the very best tones at low volume, so sometimes the stomp box pedals are easier to can and reproduce the rehearsal hall sounds. I don't know what it is but my band plays at a higher volume in the basement than we can get away with in any club. The other guitarist in my band can't get his 22W Fender Deluxe over 2 on the volume knob without inflicting pain on stage. I have a few other overdrives, but these seem to work best.

 

[mr_fender]

Sorry to drudge up an old thread, but just FYI the TS-9 and TS-808 are nearly identical circuits. The only differences are the Opamp IC thats used (about $0.50) and two resistors (about $0.25) in the output buffer section.

The TS-808 uses a new production JRC4558D opamp. The TS-9 uses a few different chips (TA75558P is common). By modern audio standards, the JRC4558 is actually a pretty noisy and crappy part. It was chosen most likely because it was super cheap and in plentiful supply. As the years went by, the JRC4558 chip was eventually discontinued and a newer, higher spec'd replacement was used in the TS-9 reissue pedals. Even though the replacement chips were cleaner and better by audio standards, people prefered the sound of the old JRC4558 chips, and so the "vintage" tubescreamer lust began. When Ibanez got arround to re-issuing the TS-808, they went back to the JRC4558D chips, as they were once again being produced. By the way, the Opamp has a fairly small impact on the distortion of the tubescreamer. Silicon diodes are used to generate most of the clipping. Swapping for some different ones can give you some different shades of grit and grind.

As for the two resistors in the output buffer section, basically all they do is allow the TS-808 to drive your amps input a little bit harder. Both of these changes are fairly subtle. In a blind listening test, you'd have a tough time picking out which was the TS-9 and which was the TS-808. Basically all this means is, Ibanez is making a killing on their TS-808 reissue by taking a TS-9, changing only a couple of super cheap components, slapping it in the vintage style case and adding an extra $80 to the price. By the way, the TS7 is also nearly exactly the same as well. You can pickup a TS7 for about $35 and change a couple of components and have a TS-808 for WAY less. The Boss SD-1 (about $40 new) is very very similar as well, and can also be moded to TS-808 specs with just a few component swaps. There's tons of info online about building and modding pedals. Read up and have fun with it. The TS-808 clone on my board cost me about $40 in parts.

 

[Elixir]

Sorry to drudge up an old thread, but just FYI the TS-9 and TS-808 are nearly identical circuits. The only differences are the Opamp IC thats used (about $0.50) and two resistors (about $0.25) in the output buffer section.

The TS-808 uses a new production JRC4558D opamp. The TS-9 uses a few different chips (TA75558P is common). By modern audio standards, the JRC4558 is actually a pretty noisy and crappy part. It was chosen most likely because it was super cheap and in plentiful supply. As the years went by, the JRC4558 chip was eventually discontinued and a newer, higher spec'd replacement was used in the TS-9 reissue pedals. Even though the replacement chips were cleaner and better by audio standards, people prefered the sound of the old JRC4558 chips, and so the "vintage" tubescreamer lust began. When Ibanez got arround to re-issuing the TS-808, they went back to the JRC4558D chips, as they were once again being produced. By the way, the Opamp has a fairly small impact on the distortion of the tubescreamer. Silicon diodes are used to generate most of the clipping. Swapping for some different ones can give you some different shades of grit and grind.

As for the two resistors in the output buffer section, basically all they do is allow the TS-808 to drive your amps input a little bit harder. Both of these changes are fairly subtle. In a blind listening test, you'd have a tough time picking out which was the TS-9 and which was the TS-808. Basically all this means is, Ibanez is making a killing on their TS-808 reissue by taking a TS-9, changing only a couple of super cheap components, slapping it in the vintage style case and adding an extra $80 to the price. By the way, the TS7 is also nearly exactly the same as well. You can pickup a TS7 for about $35 and change a couple of components and have a TS-808 for WAY less. The Boss SD-1 (about $40 new) is very very similar as well, and can also be moded to TS-808 specs with just a few component swaps. There's tons of info online about building and modding pedals. Read up and have fun with it. The TS-808 clone on my board cost me about $40 in parts.

How little of a difference (if any) do these pedals have to each other when using it as a 'clean' boost?

 

[mr_fender]

Even less. However, I wouldn't exactly classify a tubescreamer at any setting a clean boost. Unless you're using really whimpy pickups, there's still a small amount of grit added to hard attacks. Also, the frequency response of a tubescreamer is far from flat. It has a pretty significant midrange hump. It does add a small amount of compression and sustain at low gain settings, but it's quite subtle. In a double blind listening test, I think most players would be surprized by the results. Power of suggestion affects people A LOT more than they are willing to admit. By paying $100 more for a pedal, you want and need it to sound better. That will bias your interpretation of its quality. Don't get me wrong, I can definitely appreciate a well made, quality product. People like Analogman and Fulltone make some great sounding and very well built pedals. If it works for you, and you find it worth the money, then by all means go for it. I'm just saying that you should objectively use your ears and your brain and don't just listen to all the hype surrounding some products. The internet is a wealth of information, but it is quite difficult to sift the facts from the oceans of opinion.

 

[mr_fender]

Here's an amusing example of what I'm talking about. Ever hear of the Clay Jones Overdrive (CJOD)? This pedal was a very small run of boutique overdrive pedals that for some unknown reason has reached a god-like mythical state of being. The are rare and have been known to sell used for over $1000 each. Common practice for many boutique builders is a process called doping, which is covering the circuit board with a thick opaque epoxy (usually black) to hide its design from prying eyes. This adds to the mystique. The pedal is rare, very expensive, and no one knows how it's made, so it has to be great, right? WRONG! Someone took one of these little gems and painstakingly removed the epoxy coating to reveal the components used. What did they find... none other than a nearly stock tubescreamer clone with a Burr Brown Opamp chip (about $4) and two 3mm red LED's in place of the clipping diodes (about $0.50). It also has a 1Meg gain pot, which increases the distortion available at the highest setting, and was true bypass. Other than than, it was a regular tubescreamer. Pathetic huh! People have actually paid over $1000 for a pedal that could be build for about $40. Beware of the snake oil! It's everywhere!

 

[Ken j]

Antique Electronic Supply sells the Maxon OD808 with the original JRC chip for $117. I have been told at my local guitar store that Maxon builds the pedals for Ibanez. The Maxon pedal has a mechanical swich where as the modern TS9's have a electronic switch of some sort. It is possible that the Maxon has true bypass but I am not sure.

I did compare my modded TS9 Tube Screamer with a stock one of the same era and although there is a difference it is very slight and unless they were side by side I doubt that anyone could identify one from the other. I wouldn't say one sounds better than the other just slightly different. I did prefer the modded pedal. That may be caused by the different resistors and have nothing to do with the chip.

link: http://www.tubesandmore.com/scripts...levclients/cemirror/ELEVATOR.FXP?item=M-OD808

 

[Mahalo]

In a blind listening test, you'd have a tough time picking out which was the TS-9 and which was the TS-808.

Truer words were never said. No one in the audience will ever hear, know or care about the difference.

We guitar players act out these obsessive compulsive gear fetishes for our own neurotic enjoyment! Just head over to the Les Paul forum and check out the folks tearing perfectly fine, very expensive LP Reissues to bits and replacing little plastic doodads, inlays, tailpieces, even whole fretboards... and then they claim they can "hear the difference". :lol: :lol: :lol:

Hey I'm just as guilty too! :roll:

 

[mr_fender]

Yep, I think we're all a bit guilty. Modding and tweaking is a lot of fun and can become addictive.

The Maxon pedal has a mechanical swich where as the modern TS9's have a electronic switch of some sort. It is possible that the Maxon has true bypass but I am not sure

The Maxon OD808 is not true bypass. It uses the same FET switching that the original and the Ibanez re-issue do. Both use a mechanical switch to actuate an electronic flip-flop circuit, which in turn activates the FET transistor switches to bypass the signal. This is the same technique used by Boss, Digitech, and many other effects makers. These pedals use good quality buffers, so tone sucking is usually not a problem. True bypass can be more "pure", but it can also be prone to pops and clicks when switching. FET switching is for all practical purposes silent. Also, if you run long cables, having a buffered, non-true bypass pedal on your board may actually help your tone.

 

[thunda1216]

People have actually paid over $1000 for a pedal that could be build for about $40. Beware of the snake oil! It's everywhere!

Bump! I've owned several overdrives over the years, and I keep coming back to a $12.00 Arion Tubulator. Sold the Tubescreamers, the Boss units, and a couple of boutique pedals, and don't miss them.

ty

 

[mr_fender]

That's funny, because the Arion Tubulator is actually another tubescreamer clone. Its circuit is nearly identical. There are A LOT of tubescreamer clones on the market. Nearly every effects manufacturer has one in their lineup. They may tweak the circuit a bit, but the basic circuit is usually still intact. To me that speaks volumes for the pure genious of this little circuit. Imitation is said to the the sincerest form of flattery. It's ironic that the green pedal is the envy of so many.

 

[yelly]

BYOC OD2 is magnificent if you can handle the build. Lots of options and true bypass.

 

[eschoendorff]

In a blind listening test, you'd have a tough time picking out which was the TS-9 and which was the TS-808.

Truer words were never said. No one in the audience will ever hear, know or care about the difference.

We guitar players act out these obsessive compulsive gear fetishes for our own neurotic enjoyment! Just head over to the Les Paul forum and check out the folks tearing perfectly fine, very expensive LP Reissues to bits and replacing little plastic doodads, inlays, tailpieces, even whole fretboards... and then they claim they can "hear the difference". :lol: :lol: :lol:

Hey I'm just as guilty too! :roll:

This is not unique to guitar players.... although guitar player represent possibly the largest population of tone freaks.

I graduated with a degree in Music Education in 1998 and trombone was my major instrument. I was more of a symphonic player and you would be surprised to know what people would do to $2,000-$4000 instruments to make their tone "darker" (BTW... a "dark" is generally the brass player's holy grail of tone). I've seen people duct tape big steel washers to the perfect finish on their bell claiming it gave them a darker sound.

The biggest difference between trombone (brass) and guitar tone freaks is that usually trombone and their related parts are significantly more expensive. And the amount of trombone and brass related snake oil out there is astounding!

I think it's the musician in all of us. Most people are most inspired by tone. Different tone qualities can make you play completely differently. I think it is what makes music so damn fascinating.

Just make sure that your purchases have actual sonic value... I've spent an embarrassing amount of money chasing tone-shaping-objects on guitar and trombone, only to go back to the same old **** that I always use!

 

[silentrage]

I've read from multiple sources now, that the TS7, TS9 and TS808 differ in about $5-10 worth of parts.

 

[DBALL]

Hey guys. Does it ever seem crazy that all of us Boogie Users are constantly looking for add-ons to our amps. Ideally, I'd like to think that there is a reason we like Boogie, which is the undeniable warm tones that only a Boogie can make. It seems that no one just uses thier amp anymore, myself included. I was researching Pro rigs and found that out of all the Greats, only a couple just used a guitar and an amp. Angus was one of them. He has one of the best tones around in my opinion. But the catch is, you have to play like him. Most of the character in his tone comes from his fingers rather than his pedalboard. I'm not a pursist or anything, in fact i have been looking for a tube screamer too to give me more sustain on strat type leads. I just wish we could all rest at night knowing our tone was where we wanted it to be. Maybe it's just the thrill of the hunt!

 

[apbaxter]

Hi, I just joined up and saw your discussion. I have just recently gone through this dilemma. I had about 15 pedals, all bought off ebay including standard TS-9 and TS-808, keeley mods of those pedals, a Voodoo Lab Sparkle Drive, and three Fulltone Fulldrives. I spent about a month trying them all out and did a blind test with a couple of friends where one would be plugged in and tweaked to taste. Interesting times for us pedal geeks. I went with the Fulltone Fulldrive. It just seemed to me to have the sweetest drive. I don't like the extra drive bit on them though, to mushy. Of the Ibanez pedals I liked the current TS-9 over the 808 mainly because i find the footswitch of the 808 finnicky. But then the guy I sold it to on ebay said he fixed it, so maybe the 808 is worth the bit extra. But it is all down to personal taste.