Which Mesa is right for me?

[Drew K]

Hi everybody I'm new to this forum and I need some advice. I don't actually own a Mesa yet but am looking for the right one and I'd like some opinions on which one might be right for me. After some research I've narrowed it down to the Mark V, Mark IV, Royal Atlantic, and any Rectifier series amp. I'm not too picky on cleans because Mesa in general has warm cleans but I'm very picky on the high gain tone. I don't use low/mid gain too often but if the amp has a pleasing tone in that range I'll use it. I'm into mid range heavy amps. On a typical eq I usually set the mids to 7/8, treble 5.5, and bass 6 to give you an idea. I actually like the dark mid centered tone of the orange rockerverb but I hate the aesthetics and I want to buy an American amp. For the type of music I write most people would go straight for the recto but I've listened to a lot of sound clips of bands using it and none of the guitarists stand out. It's almost like the recto is a type cast amp for modern hard rock rhythm. 90% of the mark series demos I've seen the player is using a music man jp model and they have the V mid scoop on the GEQ so I have no clue if it can do that dark mid range thing but it still seems very promising. I like what I hear in the royal atlantic so far but I don't like the shared eq on the 2nd channel. Not too big of a deal though if the hi mode ends up being exactly what I'm looking for. Besides hard rock I'm also into instrumental guitar music so I need an amp that can do both rhythm and leads well. So with that does anybody have some good advice for which path I should go?

 

[bandit2013]

I voted for any Rectifier. The Mark V falls into that category now.
I would suggest locating a local shop that has the models of interest and spend some time with them. If they have all of the Mesa models even better. I bought my MKV at Guitar Center. That may not be my favorite store but the only one that I could find Mesa's while I was in PA. I compared the Roadster to the Mark V. I was originally after the Roadster but liked the MKV better since it seemed familar to me (I have the MKIV and recently sold MKIII). I have in the past played through some of the Dual Rectifer amps but settled on the MKIV combo since it was a better bang for the buck. However, I did have interest in the Nomad 100W, perhaps that is why I felt at home with the MKV.

Since you are not biased with the MARK series due to lack of exposure, comparing the Rectifier series, and other models will allow you to experiment with settings since you are not used to dialing in your tone a certain way, as it was for me, I was used to the MKIV so I had a bias on set up, also the graphic EQ broght me a bit closer to home. The rectifier series do not have 5 band EQ. The Roadster is a great amp. Check out the video on the Mesa web site. The demonstration of the amp was well done. The several demos on the MKV were not so well organized. On just the video alone, I was biased towards the Roadster until I compared them one on one in real life through a 4x12 cabinet. After owning the Mark V for a while, do I wish I spent more time with the Roadster in the shop, did I make the right choice? I would say yes to both questions. I could have spent more time dialing in the Roadster before making a decision. Both heads cost the same. I found that the MKV was easier and more familiar to me due to ownership of two other marks before it. Guitar Center even sells Orange, in some stores they keep the high end amps separate from the others in their own room. Give them a test drive but do not buy them on the same day. Come back again and repeat. If you can find the AMP guru to help you they can dial in the tones you are after. When I tested the Roadster and the MKV, I only had the shop tech to aid in my selection. He was a really good guitar player but did not now the how to set up either of the amps. Besides that, he just started there. He was a great help in moving the amps around since we had to changed heads on the cabinet. Try it before you buy it. that is all I can recommend.

 

[deeman]

try them all out and get the one that stands out to you. I voted rectifier because i have one.

 

[screamingdaisy]

Mark V - Metal - Full Mix
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEorjsCvlTQ

Mark V - Metal - Raw Guitars
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0D0Le3dXnI

--------

Mark IV - Metal - Full Mix
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7bdLMs1m10

Mark IV - Metal - Raw Guitars
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJ6jH-NZECc

--------

Dual Recto (Roadster) - Metal - Full Mix
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fy4r046l-Sw

Dual Recto (Roadster) - Metal - Raw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOVMpKotmXA

--------

Recto - Metal - Full Mix
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyRRfaqhY5g
- Note the solo tone (~3:00).

Mark V - Full Mix
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XxPKrt5i-M
- Mark V in extreme mode. Note the solo tone (2:00).


You can judge the rhythm well enough on your own, I'm just going to point out the lead voices.

A Recto's lead voice is kind of recessive in the mix. It's more of a low howl instead of a scream. It also doesn't sustain as well unless boosted and will always have a grainy texture to the distortion.

A Mark's lead voice is more in your face (although the clip above has it dialled in somewhat low). It sustains incredibly well and has a singing, vocal quality to it. The texture of the distortion will always be smooth.

Myself, I own both a Recto and a Mark V. I prefer the Recto for rhythm and the Mark for lead, however ether amp will serve in ether roll without any issues. In the end it boils down to personal taste.

I only bring the Recto if I know I can play loud. The Mark V on the other hand sounds awesome at pretty much any volume.

 

[Heritage Softail]

MKIV

It has great metal tone, a wide range, and smoking leads. I have a recto now and it chugs great, but leads are just not that great, lack the feel of a Mark series.

For your tone shaping, I would say to get a parametric EQ pedal in the loop. For the easy tone shift of a fairly dramatic type and a boost depending. On how you set it, that gets the job done. Plus a good para also works well on the clean channel.

If you are determined to have a recto for chugging, check out the YT vids of a pedal called the Wampler Triple Wreck.... It is amazing, just unbelievable. I can run a tele thru a Dr.Z and hit the Triple Wreck and instant rectifier.

MKIV, loop EQ, Triple Wreck pedal. You will have it all. Buy used and it will be cheap and sound amazing.

Good luck on the tone quest.

 

[Drew K]

@Screamingdaisy

I like the frequencies that are inherently prominent in the rectos but that grainy texture is something I don't think I'll be able to get past. I like thick mid range distortion for rhythm that smooths out with the right od/boost in front for leads.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yg9gW7xXsjg

The tone at 5:42 is exactly what I'm going for and it's a Mark IV. If I can coax that out of the Mark V I'd be very happy. Everybody says channels 1 & 2 on the V are better but channel 3 in the IV is superior to the V. I think I'll end up with the Mark V or RA-100 but I really like the flexibility and independent eq for channel 2 on the V. If the V can get that tone from the video above and also the RA then I'll probably go with the V.

 

[screamingdaisy]

That's a fairly easy tone to cop on a Mark V. The combo's MC90 is a little more throaty in the mids and has that clearer top end you can hear when he solos.

 

[Drew K]

What about with a 412 rectifier cab? I saw a comparison video between the rectifier cab and the stiletto cab and the stiletto cab had more pronounced mids but mesa's site says they're out of production. Also, would I be fine with the stock 6L6 tubes to get that tone or would I have to switch to EL34s?

 

[NomadExpress]

What about with a 412 rectifier cab? I saw a comparison video between the rectifier cab and the stiletto cab and the stiletto cab had more pronounced mids but mesa's site says they're out of production. Also, would I be fine with the stock 6L6 tubes to get that tone or would I have to switch to EL34s?

So I am thinking that you are talking about a Mark V..... Regardless with a Mesa that can run on either tube - you will want a set of EL34s anyway, even if only to understand the difference. Try stock - The time will come where you will want to check it out with the EL34s.

 

[screamingdaisy]

What about with a 412 rectifier cab? I saw a comparison video between the rectifier cab and the stiletto cab and the stiletto cab had more pronounced mids but mesa's site says they're out of production. Also, would I be fine with the stock 6L6 tubes to get that tone or would I have to switch to EL34s?

The Recto cab sounds great with the Mark V, but the sound is a bit different from the one in that clip. You could get something similar with Vintage 30s but the texture is different. More edgy, more breakup... I could use a hundred descriptors and none will make any sense until you have experience with both speakers.

The Stiletto cab is the Recto Traditional cab. They renamed it when they released the Stiletto amps and they reverted to the original name when they discontinued them.

6L6s will get you there.

 

[Drew K]

Alright thanks for the advice.

 

[YellowJacket]

I'm probably going to get burned alive for this suggestion, but try an Electra Dyne. I moved from a Recto to an Electra Dyne and I can't be happier. Screamingdaisy also made the switch as well as Jdurso.

Go with the Vintage Hi mode with the amp set to 90 watts, dime the presence, turn the volume (Gain) up to 9:00. Set the treble and mids at around 1:00 - 1:30 and put the bass at 12:00 noon or slightly lower. It's a sick thick crunch which is deliciously complex and really thick / heavy. This amp is smoother and darker sounding than a Recto and it also has two British inspired crunch tones.

The only potential annoyance is the shared EQ. With the settings above, I can get a perfectly great clean tone and Vintage Lo sounds good. Something tells me you won't spend much time on Vintage Lo with what you play.

To smooth out the tone in a Recto, use a Mesa Traditional 4 x 12 with a v30 and c90 mix. This will help tame the top end and will improve the lead tone as well.

 

[Drew K]

I'll use a low/medium gain setting if it's violin like in its tone and sustain. For that sort of thing I really like the Mark I mode on the V and also the suhr shiba drive. I'm also considering a Bogner Ecstasy 101B too but since this is a Mesa forum I didn't include it in the poll/question. I like how individual playing dynamics really shine on the XTC and it has a really woody tone to it. Total opposite of the Mark V but it caught my ear so now I have to try it too. Its price tag might be hard to work around though but I'll try it anyway. I think the rectifier is out just because no matter what it sounds like a rectifier and I want something that's going to highlight my personality. I like a scooped clean tone so the shared eq on the electradyne automatically eliminates it. So now it's narrowed down to the Mark V, RA-100, and XTC 101B. If anybody has XTC experience I'd like to hear how that may apply to my needs. Thanks in advance.

 

[Given To Fly]

My vote would be for the Roadster. While its in the Rectifier series, you can't dial it in like a Rectifier to get the tones you are after. The manual explains how the gain and EQ affect each other so if you do get one, definitely read the manual (that goes for all Mesas!)

Unfortunately, Mesa makes a lot of different sounding yet great sounding amps. So you will probably end up with a collection of them.

 

[YellowJacket]

. I like a scooped clean tone so the shared eq on the electradyne automatically eliminates it.

THat's kind of silly. Why not try the thing first to see how it sounds and what it can do? You'd be absolutely amazed how many tones can be found on that amp in spite of the shared EQ. The clean on the Electra Dyne is never honky, and with the EQ set to the standard 12:00 noon position for most mesas, it is not honky at all. The amp is default quite mid heavy on the crunch modes so to get to the same sort of an EQ as a rectifier with the presence at 9:00 and everything else at 12:00 noon, you have to dial in a really scooped EQ curve. i.e. Presence maxed, treble at 1:30, mids at 8:30 and bass at 1:00 and volume (Gain) at 3:00. The results are interesting to say the least. The skinny wide cleans are found with the volume (Gain) set lower so that the bright cap on the clean mode is engaged. The advantage of having the gain trim switch is that the amp can be set to have more gain on the crunch modes with a skinnier clean tone as well.

I'd say that the clean on the Electra Dyne is huge and phat with deep warm sub lows already so it does not require excess scooping anyhow, at least not beyond what one would want for the crunch tones. The amp is not for everyone but to simply eliminate something strictly on the basis of bias is silly. The shared EQ is a design compromise but it is not as much of one as you may think.

Just be warned, this thing is not a one trick pony. It has many faces, many feels, many tones. Changing the dials around causes the thing to feel like a whole new amp under the fingers. It takes some getting used to but it is really fun.

Beyond this amp, the Royal Atlantic merits some attention. Just be aware that it is brighter with even more mids but it does have a separate EQ for clean and crunch as well as a built in channel assignable attenuator. I have not tried one yet because I don't need anymore GAS.

As for Rectos, I have owned one for many years and it has this natural scooped voice which makes it an incredible rhythm amp. It notches the upper mids out right where the voice sits in a mix. It can do a decently good lead tone but the rhythm is where the magic really is. The clean on the new recto reborn series is absolutely fantastic and worth the upgrade alone but the updated 'raw' circuit adds some seriously needed midgain tones to make for a very versatile and giggable amp. For a more mid focused tone, running a Mesa Traditional 4 x 12 with v30s will get you there. Just don't expect it to be honky and mid focused since Rectos by nature, have a tone like a Mark V with the sliders in the standard V position. It can have mids but they are different than the mids found with other amps. The best way to get a narrower and more cutting tone is to turn the treble way down, turn the mids way up, and adjust bass to taste. Then the highs can be added back in via the presence control. Reducing the treble increases the signal passed to the next two tone controls (mids and bass) while turning the treble up lowers the amount of mids and bass in the signal.

Mark Vs are probably the best option for versatility. I think the darker mid focused crunch tones can be found in the 'edge' or 'crunch' mode on the second channel. The EQ makes for infinite tone sculpting and the lead tones on this amp are rich, thick, vocal, and violin like. This thing is world class and probably mesa's best amp, but it just didn't resonate with me in spite of how awesome it is.

 

[Drew K]

So far I've tried the Mark V, Dual Rec, and Roadster and for me the V was a little too tight and the Recs were too loose. I'm looking for something between the V and an Orange Rockerverb. Would the RA-100 fit?