Whats the deal w/ mark 3s?

[Mister Joshua]

Well to chime in, i think the Mark III is the most musical sounding and probably highest gain Mark. It's the basis for the Triaxis Lead 2 Red. I think why they got kinda swept aside was due to Mesa marketing. First they were introduced while the IIC+ was still in production in 85 then remained in production after the Mark IV and Dual Rec came out, officially ending in the mid 90's. Poorly planned marketing for a great amp. One thing i will say is that even though it is a 3 channel amp, i find channel 2 to be a little weak, much the same as the Mark IV and Mark V channel 2. Just my opinion. But the lead channel is truly amazing.

Peace,
Joshua

 

[Whoopysnorp]

I didn't think too much of R2 on my old blue stripe (unmodded), but I love it on my purple stripe (with R2 volume mod). I don't know whether it's just due to the relative volume level of R2 in this amp being brought up to where it should be, but it sounds way better to me for some reason than it did on my old one.

 

[Val666]

I think many musicians are "monkey see, monkey do" and just want something because <insert rock star here> has it. Then they get insecure when they don't.

That's why the Mark III is underrated.

If there were more pics of James Hetfield or Lamb of God or whoever using them, everyone would want them. Everyone would be singing the amp's praises.

I have a simul class "green stripe" and anyone who think's it's "low gain" has serious hearing problems!

I chose this over a Mark IV and a Mark V and I'm glad I did. To my ears, the Mark III (green stripe) blow's both of those amps out of the water in terms of gain and aggressiveness. It's ruthless. It's a monster

I don't need to show off how "versatile" I am every 5 minutes so the channel switching thing is no big deal to me. If you moonlight as a reggae guitarist or play in a Coldplay cover band, you'll probably hate the Mark III's guts. It'll be too manly for your delicate sensibilities

I've played a Mark V, it's a fantastic amplifier don't get me wrong but when it comes to metal, the Mark III bashes it's brains in. It sounds more modern to my ears too.

Originally, I was gonna get a Mark V. A guy here suggested the Mark III and when I played it I fell in love. I borrowed a friends Mark V (to make sure I was right in my decision) and I don't regret it at all

If you're a serious headbanger like me, get a Mark III. It sounds better and it'll save you thousands of dollars.

 

[Val666]

I think the guy above me is right, the Mark III was a victim of bad marketing and suffered an inconvenient release date too

I think also, Mesa couldn't decide what the amp should be because they kept revising it. Each stripe has a different flavour to the other. This probably complicated matters even more.

Now we're all wondering "which Mark III is better? The black stripe or the..."

I don't seen any Mark V black stripes and purple stripes and etcetera. It's just a Mark V, there's no confusion as to what it is or what it's designed to do. It's very straightforward.

The Mark III isn't. It's like Mesa weren't happy with it and kept changing it and releasing it in a different revision hoping one of them would catch on.

How would you Mark V owners feel if next month a black stripe was released, then a purple stripe and so on? Wouldn't it make you nervous and insecure about your purchase? I think the whole Mark III release was a fiasco.

From what I've read, the Mark III evolved from stripe to stripe to become a high gain monster. The blue and green stripe have a similar power amp to the IIC+ and they're both widely regarded to be the most aggressive Mesa mark series amps ever made.

I haven't played every Mesa Boogie out there (only a few) but the green-stripe is remarkably aggressive.

Anyway, at the end of the day, what's the point of buying an amplifier only to reject it for failing to sound like your favourite rock-star anyway? That's kinda silly.

 

[kdorsey]

The main difference between the IIC+ and MkIII is not tone.
It's in the way the C+ responds to your playing.
You can lighten up your pick attack and the amp will clean up. You can dig in and it'll start to breakup and growl.
It's also more dynamic and responsive to changes in your guitars volume settings.
In my experience a MkIII does not respond this way.

My experience has been different. Specifically, the exact opposite. But that doesn't mean gts is wrong, just a different experience. We all have different approaches to tone shaping, OD/distortion levels, etc. and those baselines define our sound. These perceptions are totally subjective and speaks to the amazing flexibility of these amps. I'm not a metal player at all but I find the MkIII to be the near perfect tool for my sound. The biggest misperception, IMO, is that the MkIII is only going to sound good in a high gain application. Not so. And after 23 years of using almost one amp, I can say that I've made it work.

The other small point is that the MkIII evolved dramatically over the course of its life. From the no stripe/black dot to the green stripe, every aspect of the amp was tweaked or completely altered. Enough so that an early MkIII sounds - or reacts - differently than the final iteration. I spent all of my time with a green stripe and couldn't dial a red or purple stripe in the same way...I've tried. The nuances are very unique to the version and generalizing the MkIII based on one model is a mistake. There are definitive power stage differences between a triode and pentode SimulClass amp. Very good differences. 8)

 

[fretout]

Mesa Mark III Coliseum is the king of the Mark's, IMO...........

As far aggression, gain, and sheer attitude, I would have to agree. It definitely has more gain than a Mark IV. There is a "breath" to the Mark III, where the Mark IV seems somewhat sterile. Also, you can get a Mark III to crunch a lot harder than a Mark IV. In order for the Mark IV to get the "grit" of the Mark III, you really have to goose the Treble, for a little extra Gain, but when you boost the Treble too much, it feeds back too easily.

Just my .02s

 

[herrball]

Having owned 2 MKIII's I thought I would chime in as well.

The one thing I didn't hear mention of is the types of music played by all the posters. I think that also makes a huge difference in your view of the III.

When I was working full time I played in cover bands and essentially got a great clean out of R1, an acceptable crunch out of R2 and since I have the GEQ, an unbelievable sound out of the lead channel. I never thought I had shared controls when it comes to the lead channel because the GEQ essentially is the dedicated EQ for the lead channel I never had to compromise on that.

With all that being said, I wasn't playing Metallica so I wasn't looking for a super-heavy R2; it was pop cover bands and not metal, death-metal, whatever that required that much versatility so my view is limited or skewed by the music I played. My own originals are Jeff Beck meets Larry Carlton so I used a Fender-y clean and a lead setting that never went above 3.5-5. In my experience , unless I was playing a Santana cover, I never needed more gain and this is with EMG's which can really push your amp. (BTW - I always found I needed less gain with the EMGs vs let's say a Dimarzio Super Distortion)

So this is just my experience and opinion. I still use mine because it fits what I play. I could probably move to a LoneStar easily since I don't need a heavy R2.

Its an amazing amp that I could nail a late '70's Carlton tone with or add a marshall cab and get fat, nasty and mean with!

Play on lads, play on!!

 

[igfraso]

I like the III a lot more than I like the other Marks. Just the R2 mod is the only thing I could ask for.

In addition to the R2 Vol mod, you may want to check whether it also has the Reverb mod. I guess that green stripes already come modded from factory and maybe some blue stripes as well (not sure about this).

For the original poster: you are probably already aware of all this but just in case...

In order, the stripes were:
- None or Black Stripe
- Purple Stripe
- Red Stripe
- Blue Stripe
- Green Stripe

As with all things MESA, what these various stages represent are a matter of opinion with respect of the sound character. Don't let anyone pass on a bunch of bullshit about one being better than the other. They represent snapshots in time of the development of an amplifier line. If the amplifier gets you the tone you want, the jiffy marker is nothing more than a mark of its vintage. Much anxiety is generated in the Mark III group by this extensive evolution, much because of misinformation about what these stripes represent.

#1 - No mark or a little dot. Only a few hundred then some balck marks or "+"'s .
- Lean and powerful amp with more output power than a IIC+

#2 - Purple: reshaping of R2
- R2 was shaped to be more "rounded" and less gain, with improved level

#3 - Red: R2 is like current Mark III
- R2 further developed and very hot. Lead mode is also tweaked to close in on the IIC+ sound

#4 - Blue: Reshaping of R1
- More aggressive preamp gain - reshaping of R1, Power section made akin to IIC+

#5 - Green/Simul-Class: Final R1 and Lead Channel reshaping
- Cleaner R1, Lead channel reshaping, and unlike other Simul amps, these Mark III's were wired in Pentode - NOT triode in the Class A sockets for more power. Power section is same as Blue otherwise.

 

[abernethyfj]

Probably the newest mkIII owner here so ill throw in my 2cents. I bought mine less than a week ago for a really great price here in australia. Ive used a single rectifier 50 v2 for about 4 years and really loved loved loved it... albeit a little 'boring' sometimes - not in the usual sense of the word - but just that when you plugged in you got recto tone or recto tone. Amazing first tube amp and i really learned a lot playing through it but i needed more versatility. The mark 3 turned up in a local store and after playing it i was sold!!!

Its a no dot/stripe, early mk3 model (85/86) with reverb but no geq. Had a play for about half an hour and was sold on it! I didnt find dialing it in a challenge and from what i found the amp was very versatile. Reverb is nothing short of amazing, i dont need long delays so this is perfect. Any setting on the dial sounded sweet (ive had a fender combo with reverb and some digital delay reverbs - this spring tank is imo the best i've used) whatever orange use in their rockerverbs has nothing on this reverb. the tank is huge and says accutronics - is this the stock tank mesa used back then?

Anyway as ive said i have now had it for about a week. Used it twice in band rehearsals and im so close to having it perfect. Havent had muuuch trouble with the channel volumes - clean to lead is fine but the rhythm gain channel (i think 2? when you pull the mid knob) is always a couple of dB higher. My solution is to just use the neck pickup on this channel with the volume rolled off - also having great success just going clean to lead and then using my mxr 10 band or mi audio boost-buffer for 2 other tone options.

What is this volume mod mentioned? i have intermediate soldering skills and am quite interested just for the option of having a fully usable rhy.2 ch - i imagine it would be a bit more complex than the effects loop mod i did on my single recto.

edit:
tl;dr? i spent about 2 years looking for a tube head with GOOD reverb and versatility my single rectifier did not offer (ive tried blackstars, oranges, marshalls, fenders, peavies you name it). one day i stumbled across an old looking mesa head i had no idea about but recognized as one of the marks - spent half an hour with it, spent $950 ($950!!!!!!!!) and now have every feature i was looking for and amazing tone to boot. if youre shopping for an amp, listen to everyone in this threads advice as they really know what theyre talking about, think about it for a bit, then forget about it and go play some fucking amps till you HEAR what you want.

 

[kdorsey]

That's right...MkIII's suck. I'm happy to take yours off your hands for $200. Where shall I Paypal? :wink:

There's nothing more gratifying than to hear another guitarist come up to you after a gig and say, "that sounded fantastic! Never knew one of those old Boogies could sound like that."

Yes, it's all that and a bag of chips. 8)

 

[igfraso]

abernethyfj,

if you call Mike Bendinelli at Mesa Boogie, he will send you the instructions for you to do it. He says it is a very simple mod.

 

[rvschulz]

the r2 volume mod is published here with very exacting pics - i printed them and brought them to an amp tech (i don;t solder !) and within 30 minites he had done this mod to both my amps ... great mod.

 

[gts]

the r2 volume mod is published here with very exacting pics - i printed them and brought them to an amp tech (i don;t solder !) and within 30 minites he had done this mod to both my amps ... great mod.

In any case here ya go, pics, and "how to" etc:

http://forum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?t=18520

 

[abernethyfj]

Ahh cheers!! This is such an awesome board looks easy enough if i can find the right caps

Edit: Gonna try do a comparison of the mark 3 and my single rec this arvo so keep an eye out later on

 

[Justice1988]

IMHO the III failed because....
Lack of focused concept. Let me see here, you have an amp replacing the legendary IIc+ right around the MoP and AJFA era that was marketed to be the most flexible versatile amp, when in reality if you want to accept it or not, the real market for it wanted metallica. The III very well can do metallica and past that. However, it looks and is told to be everything below it too. Those type of musicians are then turned off by it because the R2 channel really is unusable due to tone stacking and gain sharing. This further complicated situations for live bands and musicians. Basically the III was unusable. Then that leaves you with just the metallica market left to make use of the amp without being suffered from the R2 channel because they won't use it anyway. But that market was a failure too because you have a bunch of kids with no or low paying jobs that realistically can't reach the cost of the amp on their own. Then combine with being sandwiched by the legendary IIc+ that was on two of the best metal albums of all time, and the Mark IV ending it's somewhat early, the III never had enough time to mature to even get a rep.

The you have a bunch of minor problems with the III that have stuck with it for it's life. such as tone control sharing, iffy effects loop, weak reverb.

With that said, the III is down right a mean mofo. I have a green stripe long head and I won't play any other amp. This is the amp for me.

 

[igfraso]

I don't why you say that the Mark III failed. Mesa sold 10,000 amps in the first 4 years. Does that sound like a failure?

Approx. serial numbers:
- black ('85): 15000 to 16715
- purple ('86): 16657 to 19120
- red ('87): 19100 to 21863
- blue ('88~'89): 21825 to 25000
- green ('89~'98): 24940 to 28384

Tone control sharing is the same thing you find on the Mark IIC+
R2 gain sharing and weak reverb are solved with two Mesa mods ($50 for both mods together).

 

[kdorsey]

IMHO the III failed because....
Lack of focused concept. Let me see here, you have an amp replacing the legendary IIc+ right around the MoP and AJFA era that was marketed to be the most flexible versatile amp, when in reality if you want to accept it or not, the real market for it wanted metallica. The III very well can do metallica and past that. However, it looks and is told to be everything below it too. Those type of musicians are then turned off by it because the R2 channel really is unusable due to tone stacking and gain sharing. This further complicated situations for live bands and musicians. Basically the III was unusable. Then that leaves you with just the metallica market left to make use of the amp without being suffered from the R2 channel because they won't use it anyway. But that market was a failure too because you have a bunch of kids with no or low paying jobs that realistically can't reach the cost of the amp on their own. Then combine with being sandwiched by the legendary IIc+ that was on two of the best metal albums of all time, and the Mark IV ending it's somewhat early, the III never had enough time to mature to even get a rep.

I know you end your post stating you like your MkIII, but there's just nothing else I can agree with, here. First, the IIc+ wasn't a legend in the 80's. Metallica's success and market saturation hadn't peaked, much less reached a point of influencing a guitar amp's available market. And the liberal use of the terms "tone stacking" and "gain sharing" makes them sound like bad things when, in reality, they either mean nothing or are positive characters of the amp. All this is stated as fact, when it's just your humble opinion.

At the time, the MkIII was the only "3 channel" amp on the market. And the MkIII was produced for what, 6 years? Yes, the tone controls are akin to the Fender system and the gain stages influence each other. So WHAT? Playing in pop rock cover bands thru the 80's and classic rock bar bands from the '90s to today - all using the same amp - I fail to see how my ability to make the amp shine in that capacity is an example of 'failure'. To the contrary, I feel that my experience is testimony to the flexibility and time-tested quality of the MkIII.

Metallica did not "make" this amp. And the ability to "do Metallica" doesn't make or break an amp, in many people's minds.

 

[JOEY B.]

Metallica did not "make" this amp. And the ability to "do Metallica" doesn't make or break an amp, in many people's minds.

Including my mind. A great big +1000. 8)

 

[themisfit138]

I have a IIC+, III+ and IVa. The amp I play the most is the III. It sounds very close in tone to my IIC+ but more in your face. It is a great amp for thrash.
On a side note my IIC+ and III were built 2 months apart, the C+ was built in 6 of '85 and the III was built 8 of '85. I don't know when they changed, but my transformer and rectifier in my III are the same as the IIC+.

 

[Justice1988]

What I said sounds really ignorant the more I read it. Sorry.